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Self hosted Mail - Is it a good idea?

13

Comments

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran
    edited October 2016

    Better host it yourself, Sparkpost failed using Blacklisted IP's, now MXRoute fails after my 5th email my Account got temporary disabled,

    "We do not authorize the use of this system to transport unsolicited, 220 and/or bulk e-mail"

    Meh.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2016

    Neoon said: now MXRoute fails after my 5th email my Account got temporary disabled

    That's not a disabled message. That's the SMTP banner for exim...

    It's literally saying "Hello, while you're here, please don't send spam."

    Thanked by 1simonindia
  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    @jarland said:

    Neoon said: now MXRoute fails after my 5th email my Account got temporary disabled

    That's not a disabled message. That's the SMTP banner for exim...

    It's literally saying "Hello, while you're here, please don't send spam."

    I tried 3 different emails with different content, still the same, it looks like its disabled. One line text msg and it gets flagged as Spam, neat.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2016

    Neoon said: I tried 3 different emails with different content, still the same, it looks like its disabled. One line text msg and it gets flagged as Spam, neat.

    That message is not a flag of spam... it's the SMTP banner. It's the MTA responding to the HELO statement. Every MTA has an SMTP banner.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran 
    root@ghost [~]# telnet localhost 25
Trying ::1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
220-ghost.mxroute.com ESMTP Exim 4.87 #1 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:13:24 -0400
220-We do not authorize the use of this system to transport unsolicited,
220 and/or bulk e-mail.
HELO ghost.mxroute.com
250 ghost.mxroute.com Hello ghost.mxroute.com [::1]
MAIL FROM: 
250 OK
RCPT TO: 
250 Accepted
data
354 Enter message, ending with "." on a line by itself
Subject: test
testing
.
250 OK id=1c0Cax-0003ds-6d
quit
221 ghost.mxroute.com closing connection
Connection closed by foreign host.
    Thanked by 2Lm85H4gFkh3wk3 vimalware
  • simonindiasimonindia Member

    @Neoon said:
    Better host it yourself, Sparkpost failed using Blacklisted IP's, now MXRoute fails after my 5th email my Account got temporary disabled,

    "We do not authorize the use of this system to transport unsolicited, 220 and/or bulk e-mail"

    Meh.

    It says Hello basically

    Thanked by 1jar
  • mik997mik997 Member

    @JustAMacUser said:

    @jarland said:
    Honestly DKIM is useless when most providers don't reject email for DKIM failure.

    I don't particularly like DKIM for those types of reasons. I set it up for my server because it was easy. I just recently started moving mail to spam folders on failures of DKIM, but that's mostly because I was bored and wanted to tinker. I've found most failures are a result of sender misconfiguration and not a result of actual spam.

    agreed - I only bothered with DKIM because I was curious about it and wanted to see how (or whether) the gmail servers verified domain keys

    imo, the 3 things which you definitely should pay attention to are:

    • a CLEAN static IP for your mail server
    • rDNS record exists and matches the MX hostname
    • a good SPF record (I use this one 'v=spf1 mx -all')
    Thanked by 1JustAMacUser
  • DamianDamian Member

    jarland said:

    That message is not a flag of spam... it's the SMTP banner. It's the MTA responding to the HELO statement. Every MTA has an SMTP banner.

    I don't know what the actual problem is... hey this unrelated text has some strong verbiage in it. And it's from an external company: obviously evil. There's no other possibility for explanation on this.

    Thanked by 3jar Lm85H4gFkh3wk3 vimalware
  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran
    edited October 2016

    Well, I never looked into MXRoute Banner before, and since something was broken, I focused on that error there.

    Which isn't an error but I thought it was.... because my connection got closed after that.
    Which did not happend before.

    But thanks @Jarland.

    Thanked by 2jar simonindia
  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider
    edited October 2016

    @Bochi said:

    @rm_ said:

    Bochi said: highest value I was able to get was 7/10, as I seem to fail in setting up the DKIM correctly

    DKIM is just 1 point out of 10, must have been something else as well, for the 2 more.

    You're sure?

    Click the +, each point has it's own reason.

  • NomadNomad Member
    edited October 2016

    Getting your own mail server is good.
    But it's a PIA to setup, configure and ensure mails are going the way they're supposed to... Especially for beginners

    I have a slightly modified iRedMail setup that allows me to do use Clamav, razor, pyzor, dkim, greylisting, rbl checks etc. for my mail. The mail server usually just sits there behind a pfSense wall that blocks known spammers, malware etc. and I have some domains setup on it with a backup of my Google Apps mails.

    Up till here, there're no problems but...

    I am getting a 10/10 over at mail-tester.com and port25.com shows pass, ham values to my email, everything seems OK, emailsecuritygrader.com gives me a %93 score (due to closed pop3 I think)

    I have DMARC, DKIM, SPF, RDNS records and a clean IP. I'm even whitelisted at dnswl.org

    But when I send the same test mail to Gmail and Hotmail (My server is added to DB), even though both of them give SPF: PASS, Authentication: PASS, DKIM: PASS, DMARC: PASS, I have to collect my mails from the Spam folder

    Imagine that...

    Thanked by 1mik997
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Nomad said: But when I send the same test mail to Gmail and Hotmail, even though both of them give SPF: PASS, Authentication: PASS, DKIM: PASS, DMARC: PASS, I have to collect my mails from the Spam folder

    Sounds like you may have one of the hated domain extensions. For example, despite owning live.nl, Hotmail will drop emails from a .nl domain nearly every single time. I only say nearly because I assume it can't be every time, but I've never seen one go through.

  • NomadNomad Member

    @jarland said:

    Nomad said: But when I send the same test mail to Gmail and Hotmail, even though both of them give SPF: PASS, Authentication: PASS, DKIM: PASS, DMARC: PASS, I have to collect my mails from the Spam folder

    Sounds like you may have one of the hated domain extensions. For example, despite owning live.nl, Hotmail will drop emails from a .nl domain nearly every single time. I only say nearly because I assume it can't be every time, but I've never seen one go through.

    Nope, I have didn't my mail in the first screenshot. It's a pretty common tld :D
    Still, maybe due to Online.net IP range, who knows, I am having trouble getting past some inboxes.

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    Nomad said: my mail in the first screenshot

    I guess they just match *turkey* anywhere and send that to Spam. :)

  • NomadNomad Member

    @rm_ said:

    Nomad said: my mail in the first screenshot

    I guess they just match *turkey* anywhere and send that to Spam. :)

    Haha, perhaps. Who knows...
    But then again, any other domain is the same as well.

  • mailcheapmailcheap Member, Host Rep

    @Bochi said:

    @simonindia said:
    I have my own Mail server it is great it scores 10/10 with mail-tester.com and all that but i also have an Mxroute account from @jarland

    While we're at the subject of mail-tester.com: Tried the other day to get the rating of my domains hosted with MXRoute up.
    But the highest value I was able to get was 7/10, as I seem to fail in setting up the DKIM correctly...
    Not sure if this broke lately, as I was pretty sure I did it the right way while setting up already.
    And on some tests I even get a lower rating, because the IP of the MailChannels relay that got (randomly) used is blacklisted. So we can see, not even they are save from getting blacklisted from time to time. :P

    Our SMTP Relays with Outbound filtering have signing tools like DKIM built-in.

  • mik997mik997 Member

    @Nomad said:

    that's a great find emailsecuritygrader.com - thanks! :)

    Thanked by 1Nomad
  • bugrakocbugrakoc Member

    I ran a mailserver for my clients and myself for several years with 10/10 points. Always employed SPF, DKIM, and DMARC successfully. Had a clean IP. Nevertheless, Hotmail decided that my mails were spam. Never succeeded in delivering one single e-mail into a Hotmail inbox. sigh

    Started to gradually switch to MXroute few days ago. I don't think I'll be looking back.

  • k0nslk0nsl Member

    Indeed, interesting tool @nomad. That saves me a lot of time in manual checking -- although I typically end up manually checking anyway...but at least it can sped up the process by giving some hints faster ;)

    I just sat one up some minutes ago:

  • ElmoElmo Member

    @mik997 said:
    p.s. This is a great site for checking your self-hosted mail server's reputation:

    https://mail-tester.com/

    This site has helped me a lot and currently I'm happily enjoying a 10/10 mark! But as you said, you spend time to configure everything and in return you gain knowledge :)

    To answer to OP question... Due to privacy concerns I prefer self-hosted solutions for just about anything that has to do with my data.

    Thanked by 1mik997
  • Ole_JuulOle_Juul Member
    edited October 2016

    Well this is funny. I just tried that mail-tester.com and got 2/10. People seem to be getting my emails so I may just leave it at that.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2016

    @Ole_Juul said:
    Well this is funny. I just tried that mail-tester.com and got 2/10. People seem to be getting my emails so I may just leave it at that.

    Honestly not hard to get that if two of the right things go wrong. A bad DKIM key (as opposed to no DKIM at all) hurts the score bad, but recipient servers mostly don't reject for it.

    The biggest test is always this: send to hotmail :)

    Thanked by 1Ole_Juul
  • mik997mik997 Member

    @Elmo said:

    To answer to OP question... Due to privacy concerns I prefer self-hosted solutions for just about anything that has to do with my data.

    totally agree - there's just something really nice about being totally in control of your own domains and email and not having to trust the Google machine or worse again pay for something like Office 365

  • RalliasRallias Member
    edited October 2016

    jarland said: Hotmail will drop emails from a .nl domain nearly every single time.

    Are you sure it's the .nl domain? Only issues I've seen with Hotmail is that they're anal about SPF.

    EDIT: Also... if you're on dnsbl.chile.org (or whatever the fuck it is), good fucking luck... other blacklists I've not seen a solid pattern in.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2016

    Rallias said: Are you sure it's the .nl domain? Only issues I've seen with Hotmail is that they're anal about SPF.

    Yeah, I've dealt with a fair number of .nl domains that they just refused to deliver email from. Haven't honestly dealt with one that did go through. It's the classic "accepts email but never bounces or delivers" situation that they do, and refuse to acknowledge.

    I'm quite surprised you've not run into more issues with Hotmail. I actually keep a textexpander entry handy with these links to assure people that they're not alone quite frequently:

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/oemail-osend/email-accepted-by-hotmail-but-not-delivered/83621726-60f8-46ce-9416-daf2385acca3
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/oemail-osend/emails-sent-from-my-server-to-hotmail-never-arrive/9625a356-f5a0-4b52-bae4-3ca3d11aeae0
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/oemail-osend/hotmail-accepting-email-from-a-certain-domain-but/c59ad2b0-724e-4ab8-8e52-1c852e37a0de
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/oemail-osend/email-from-a-specific-domain-not-being-delivered/8451e4b0-a5c7-45bc-8f9b-70c876b3b35d
    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/oemail-osend/messages-reported-as-250-queued-for-delivery-but/f451cda5-ba7d-45ff-b643-501efe2413dc

    For years they've been refusing to acknowledge the situation where they accept email but refuse to deliver it or bounce it. If it happens for an entire IP range you basically have to toss out the range if you have intent on delivering email to them through it. I've got 2 /27s right now that it happens with, and the feedback loops are empty from day one. No response from the form:

    http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid

    If you post on the forum like the people above they run you in circles to check your own server, and they never acknowledge the silent block.

    Rallias said: EDIT: Also... if you're on dnsbl.chile.org (or whatever the fuck it is), good fucking luck... other blacklists I've not seen a solid pattern in.

    That's an interesting note. I've never seen anyone block for that RBL, or at least not report it back.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @jarland said:

    @mailcheap said:
    Our XSmall plan can handle 1 MM mails/mo. at just $59 delivering 100% emails. Mailchannels' pricing is way too high and its not dedicated!

    That's quite a claim. I'll bite, let's run some tests :)

    So @mailcheap made a claim here that got me interested. I posted here that I'd test it and see if he could deliver. I do believe he can and is delivering on this. I'm running a controlled test right now with his relay platform and it's actually pretty incredible. Figured it'd be kind of me to follow up and note it here :)

    Thanked by 4Waldo19 mailcheap GCat WSS
  • simonindiasimonindia Member

    @jarland said:
    So @mailcheap made a claim here that got me interested. I posted here that I'd test it and see if he could deliver. I do believe he can and is delivering on this. I'm running a controlled test right now with his relay platform and it's actually pretty incredible. Figured it'd be kind of me to follow up and note it here :)

    We are waiting for results @jarland how it's going current status

  • dragon2611dragon2611 Member

    @mailcheap any plans for shared outbound relay/spam filtering for those of us who don't even do 10K emails a month let alone 1Million?

    Maybe as an addon to the inbound spam filter product?

  • mailcheapmailcheap Member, Host Rep

    @jarland said:

    @jarland said:

    @mailcheap said:
    Our XSmall plan can handle 1 MM mails/mo. at just $59 delivering 100% emails. Mailchannels' pricing is way too high and its not dedicated!

    That's quite a claim. I'll bite, let's run some tests :)

    So @mailcheap made a claim here that got me interested. I posted here that I'd test it and see if he could deliver. I do believe he can and is delivering on this. I'm running a controlled test right now with his relay platform and it's actually pretty incredible. Figured it'd be kind of me to follow up and note it here :)

    Thank you! :)

    @dragon2611 said:
    @mailcheap any plans for shared outbound relay/spam filtering for those of us who don't even do 10K emails a month let alone 1Million?

    Maybe as an addon to the inbound spam filter product?

    The abuse potential is so much more in a shared outbound relay system; maybe in the future :)

    Pavin.

  • dragon2611dragon2611 Member

    @dragon2611 said:
    @mailcheap any plans for shared outbound relay/spam filtering for those of us who don't even do 10K emails a month let alone 1Million?

    Maybe as an addon to the inbound spam filter product?

    The abuse potential is so much more in a shared outbound relay system; maybe in the future :)

    Pavin.

    Whilst I understand you want to keep your IP's clean If it's per domain and you enforce the T&C's tightly and apply the same limits as the shared email platform then is it really going to be as much of an issue if the initial email comes from an internal server or an external one?

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