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Upgrading HostSolutions.ro OpenVZ Templates To 16.04 / Jessie or Stretch
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Upgrading HostSolutions.ro OpenVZ Templates To 16.04 / Jessie or Stretch

edited June 2018 in Tutorials

I have seen that @cociu has once again posted his usual offers (which are superb value) and once again people are moaning that the templates are old. The templates ARE upgradeable to something more modern, but you need to put more effort into doing it than just typing do-release-upgrade or switching the versions used by APT.

These scripts are the result of a couple of days of work by me. I have lost about $24 creating them through losing the use of virtual machines, because, like others have experienced, if you upgrade the short way you will end up with a machine that won't boot or reinstall, and cociu won't help.

Before I continue:

  • HOSTSOLUTIONS OFFER NO SUPPORT FOR NEW DISTRIBUTIONS THAN THE TEMPLATES THAT THEIR CONTROL PANEL OFFERS.
  • THE FACT MY SCRIPT WORKS TODAY IS NO INDICATION IT WILL WORK IN THE FUTURE
  • I ACCEPT NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR CHOICE TO USE MY SCRIPTS TO UPGRADE YOUR TEMPLATES TO SOMETHING NEWER. But, they are offered in good faith.
  • IF YOU MESS UP YOUR SERVER EITHER WHEN RUNNING THE SCRIPT OR LATER ON, COCIU WILL NOT HELP YOU GET YOUR MACHINE BACK ONLINE IN A TIMELY MANNER. YOU MAY AS WELL KISS YOUR VPS GOODBYE UNLESS COCIU WANTS TO FIX IT.

However, if you can't resist the offer of a cheap VPS and can afford the financial and other risks involved with upgrading your server, I make available the following tutorials / scripts that allow you to upgrade the Debian Wheezy x86, x86_64 and Ubuntu 14.04 minimal templates to Jessie, Stretch or 16.04 as appropriate.

I have tested them on two different cociu VPS, and they work. You may see errors as they run, but they get resolved by the end of the script (with regards to init timeouts and missing files, this is because we have to ensure that certain files do not exist before upgrading otherwise the upgrade will fail).

PREREQUISITES

  • You are on a HostSolutions or other OpenVZ VPS
  • You have FRESHLY RE-INSTALLED one of the following templates:

    • debian-7.0-x86-minimal
    • debian-7.0-x86_64 (the script will turn this into an almost minimal template)
    • ubuntu-14.04-x86_64-minimal
  • The host node you are on is running kernel 2.6.32-48-pve (check by entering the command uname-r). If it isn't the tutorial / script may still work but I have not tested it.

  • You know how to use SSH

SCRIPTS

To make it easy, I offer you these one-line commands to use when upgrading a FRESHLY INSTALLED template. Simply cut and paste them into your SSH terminal.

From Debian Wheezy To Jessie

apt-get update;apt-get install -y wget ca-certificates;wget https://gist.github.com/lowendscripts/a69971a7a44d4919ce93a83254954489/raw/wheezy_to_jessie_installer.sh; bash wheezy_to_jessie_installer.sh

From Debian Wheezy to Stretch

apt-get update;apt-get install -y wget ca-certificates;wget https://gist.github.com/lowendscripts/9631c6070b241daefcc7d10a2fdb76a2/raw/wheezy_to_stretch_installer.sh; bash wheezy_to_stretch_installer.sh

From Ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04

apt-get update;apt-get install -y wget ca-certificates;wget https://gist.github.com/lowendscripts/e6e1d980af9e41806296c0dd5536bfaa/raw/1404_to_1604_installer.sh; bash 1404_to_1604_installer.sh

TUTORIAL

For brevity, I am only including the Debian Wheezy to Stretch gist here - the others are pretty similar and can be derived from this one script.

I CANT PUT THE TUTORIAL HERE AS I KEEP BEING BLOCKED BY CLOUDFLARE - SEE THE GISTS

Updates:

  • Updated Ubuntu 1404 link as it got borked.

  • Updated the gist links so that they are always up to date.

  • Updated the Ubuntu script to use upstart by default and remove annoying insserv errors.

  • Turned off upstart and used a different method to remove annoying insserv errors.

«1

Comments

  • lowendusername said: From Ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04

    Link pointing to "404 not found" gist. Nice work.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider
    edited June 2018

    did you have try to reboot and reinstall after all this ? i am sure will stuck

  • edited June 2018

    Of course @cociu! Many times. Try it yourself.

    ** Do I get 10x service now? **

    (see about 1/4 of the way down)

  • edited June 2018

    @LTniger said:

    lowendusername said: From Ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04

    Link pointing to "404 not found" gist. Nice work.

    Sorted now.

  • @lowendusername said: I have tested them on two different cociu VPS, and they work.

    If they work, @cociu will have to modify his setup so that they don't work. ;-)

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • @cociu how about you fix the $24 worth of VPSes he is talking about?

  • ehabehab Member
    edited June 2018

    @cociu ^ this is a good idea.

    • do not prepay > 1 year and check for reviews/support
    • only use monthly from a provider operating < 1 year 🍆
  • jsgjsg Member

    I have a mechanics kit to use your pickup as a 5 ton payload truck. Note that I can't guarantee anything.

    Guys! If you have a use case that needs a current OS version how about spending a couple of $ more per year (like 5 or 10) and getting yourself a small KVM/XEN VPS? And for them simple storage boxen and the likes just run them with whatever kernel and OS version the OpenVZ box comes with.

  • SlushySlushy Member

    @JoeMerit said:
    @cociu how about you fix the $24 worth of VPSes he is talking about?

    If I am not mistaken, @cociu warns not to upgrade OS or your server will break.

  • seanhoseanho Member

    Great work, OP; that took some determination. Can you tell us more about the vzfifo stuff?

  • awesome, bookmarked!

  • Nice! If @cociu honors the 10x services thing, do report back! Everyone roots for the underdog in these situations!
    (Except possibly @cocu and @nekki. - I hear there's some dispute over a sister and a dowery??) =)

    Thanked by 2emgh raindog308

    Covfefe: Ask your senators and congressmen to impeach today!

  • K4Y5K4Y5 Member

    @lowendusername said:
    Of course @cociu! Many times. Try it yourself.

    ** Do I get 10x service now? **

    (see about 1/4 of the way down)

    I'd like to see that happen. @cociu may as well put you on a dedicated server in order to offer 10x resources for life :P

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • emghemgh Member

    10x incoming

  • mkshmksh Member

    @jsg said:
    I have a mechanics kit to use your pickup as a 5 ton payload truck. Note that I can't guarantee anything.

    Guys! If you have a use case that needs a current OS version how about spending a couple of $ more per year (like 5 or 10) and getting yourself a small KVM/XEN VPS? And for them simple storage boxen and the likes just run them with whatever kernel and OS version the OpenVZ box comes with.

    I think it's not that much of an OpenVZ problem here but @cociu's setup since from my experience upgrading Wheezy to (admittedly Devuan) Jessie causes zero problems usually. Still i see where you coming from in regard to upgrading against the hosts recommendation and KVM being way better if you want to customize. Personally i am down to a single OpenVZ VPS and it's a NAT box so i guess that hardly counts.

  • Who on earth would go to a host with an OS that only receives updates for another year and if you try to upgrade it, you won't even be able to use the vps anymore?

  • jsgjsg Member
    edited June 2018

    @mksh said:
    I think it's not that much of an OpenVZ problem here but @cociu's setup since from my experience upgrading Wheezy to (admittedly Devuan) Jessie causes zero problems usually. Still i see where you coming from in regard to upgrading against the hosts recommendation and KVM being way better if you want to customize. Personally i am down to a single OpenVZ VPS and it's a NAT box so i guess that hardly counts.

    My point isn't even about "OpenVZ is bad". I myself think it is not something I'd like to use but I understand perfectly well that others like it or at least consider it OK enough for some cases. My point is that (while technically probably an interesting entertainment) OpenVZ always comes with some caveats and "never do that" points. So if one buys and uses an OpenVZ one should damn stick to the rules and accept the limitations.

    I condemn the "solution" offered here because many of those using it won't understand what they are doing, will create problems, and finally the providers support is the idiot in this game who has to repair the VPSs (or set them up again). For free of course or else the script drones will open plenty "[insert OpenVZ provider] is shitty. VPS doesn't work!" threads here smearing the provider whose rules they broke.

    So, from my point of view we have 1 winner who showed off how smart he is, some temporarily happy script drones and many hours of support work wasted as well as quite some providers and customers on those nodes getting problems one way or the other due to that script. Plus of course more "[provider X] is scamming!!!" threads here at LET and elsewhere. Not exactly what I call a win-win.

    And let's be honest: That whole thing IS but a show-off. The guy says it basically even himself with his fat "warning". My favourite is the "I accept no responsibilty" warning. So, who will accept responsibility? Provider support. Simple - and ugly.

  • man, I hope I knew there was that 10x service offer going on, I should had put more effort on that. Cheers on the OP

  • mkshmksh Member

    @jsg said:

    @mksh said:
    I think it's not that much of an OpenVZ problem here but @cociu's setup since from my experience upgrading Wheezy to (admittedly Devuan) Jessie causes zero problems usually. Still i see where you coming from in regard to upgrading against the hosts recommendation and KVM being way better if you want to customize. Personally i am down to a single OpenVZ VPS and it's a NAT box so i guess that hardly counts.

    My point isn't even about "OpenVZ is bad". I myself think it is not something I'd like to use but I understand perfectly well that others like it or at least consider it OK enough for some cases. My point is that (while technically probably an interesting entertainment) OpenVZ always comes with some caveats and "never do that" points. So if one buys and uses an OpenVZ one should damn stick to the rules and accept the limitations.

    I already agreed with this but then i also don't have much of a problem with handing people guns to shoot themselves in the foot with. Might as well teach them a lessen that running scripts you don't understand is a really bad idea.

    I condemn the "solution" offered here because many of those using it won't understand what they are doing, will create problems, and finally the providers support is the idiot in this game who has to repair the VPSs (or set them up again). For free of course or else the script drones will open plenty "[insert OpenVZ provider] is shitty. VPS doesn't work!" threads here smearing the provider whose rules they broke.

    People breaking @cociu's VPS are pretty much old news. They'll just be laughed at. If these scripts stop working at some point or there is even a slight chance of error when using them it might get a bit out hand though.

    So, from my point of view we have 1 winner who showed off how smart he is, some temporarily happy script drones and many hours of support work wasted as well as quite some providers and customers on those nodes getting problems one way or the other due to that script. Plus of course more "[provider X] is scamming!!!" threads here at LET and elsewhere. Not exactly what I call a win-win.

    @cociu doesn't really waste any time on broken VPS. He might ask the client if he has a sister though.

    And let's be honest: That whole thing IS but a show-off. The guy says it basically even himself with his fat "warning". My favourite is the "I accept no responsibilty" warning. So, who will accept responsibility? Provider support. Simple - and ugly.

    Not saying you don't have a point but you also have to admit the no responsibility clause is a staple in tons of licenses for even the most harmless stuff.

    Tbh i like the spirit behind of this. Someone said it wouldn't work and OP took the challenge. Why not show the results? The this-is-dangerous reasoning is what has removed tons of good information (Geez, there is virus source code on this site! Kill it!). Yeah, it's a tad bit overly user friendly but oh well.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    Just to mention this :

    many people from here was upgrade to ubuntu 16 even i have told about the issues. Te vps in some case was function up to 1-3 month until the customer was make a upgrade . After this the vps was broke. So for the moment i will not give much credit to this solution, maybe is the good one but this will see in the near future.

  • How hard is it to add new templates in OpenVZ? Does it require lots of time? Does it require huge money investments? Does it require system restarts, downtime or offline time for current customers on machine? Does it require that all current VPS be upgraded to new templates?

    I am not a provider therefore I don't know, I am lazy to search online yet I feel like asking for the sake of discussion to satisfy my hungering curiosity.

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • @default said:
    How hard is it to add new templates in OpenVZ? Does it require lots of time? Does it require huge money investments? Does it require system restarts, downtime or offline time for current customers on machine? Does it require that all current VPS be upgraded to new templates?

    It has been said many times before, but let me say it again: @cociu's setup for these budget OpenVZ plans is special, it's not a completely garden-variety OpenVZ setup. What exactly has been modified is a business secret, but (as I understand it) it was done in order to prevent unreasonable people from trying to run Windows on these cheap plans (via embedded virtualization). Not a great solution, we can probably all agree, but at the same time, it's not @cociu's fault that there were unreasonable people trying to abuse the system.

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • FalzoFalzo Member

    @angstrom said:

    @default said:
    How hard is it to add new templates in OpenVZ? Does it require lots of time? Does it require huge money investments? Does it require system restarts, downtime or offline time for current customers on machine? Does it require that all current VPS be upgraded to new templates?

    It has been said many times before, but let me say it again: @cociu's setup for these budget OpenVZ plans is special, it's not a completely garden-variety OpenVZ setup. What exactly has been modified is a business secret, but (as I understand it) it was done in order to prevent unreasonable people from trying to run Windows on these cheap plans (via embedded virtualization). Not a great solution, we can probably all agree, but at the same time, it's not @cociu's fault that there were unreasonable people trying to abuse the system.

    however, hitting a reinstall button in a providers control panel should always exactly do that - reinstalling the VM, regardless of what the former system has been.

    especially with OVZ, were this is supposed to simply destroy the old container completly and deploy a fresh one from templates I will always lack the understanding why anything done inside the container should be able to break that external process...

    most recommended Provider: First-Root KVM Power-Edition /w SSD
    UltraVPS.eu KVM in US/UK/NL/DE: 15% off first 6 month | Netcup VPS/rootDS - 5€ off: 36nc15279180197 (ref)

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    Falzo said: I will always lack the understanding

    what people need to understand here is :

    i sell this offers with some terms , one of them is no ubuntu 16, debian 8, centos 7. If for someone is difficult to understand is assume the risk of vm block.

  • @cociu said:

    Falzo said: I will always lack the understanding

    what people need to understand here is :

    i sell this offers with some terms , one of them is no ubuntu 16, debian 8, centos 7. If for someone is difficult to understand is assume the risk of vm block.

    OK. Why?

    It's very easy to understand the terms and templates, but why such terms and templates exist in the first place? What stops you, or makes it difficult for you, to install newer templates or kernel?

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • @Falzo said:

    @angstrom said:

    @default said:
    How hard is it to add new templates in OpenVZ? Does it require lots of time? Does it require huge money investments? Does it require system restarts, downtime or offline time for current customers on machine? Does it require that all current VPS be upgraded to new templates?

    It has been said many times before, but let me say it again: @cociu's setup for these budget OpenVZ plans is special, it's not a completely garden-variety OpenVZ setup. What exactly has been modified is a business secret, but (as I understand it) it was done in order to prevent unreasonable people from trying to run Windows on these cheap plans (via embedded virtualization). Not a great solution, we can probably all agree, but at the same time, it's not @cociu's fault that there were unreasonable people trying to abuse the system.

    however, hitting a reinstall button in a providers control panel should always exactly do that - reinstalling the VM, regardless of what the former system has been.

    especially with OVZ, were this is supposed to simply destroy the old container completly and deploy a fresh one from templates I will always lack the understanding why anything done inside the container should be able to break that external process...

    I agree that it's puzzling! Perhaps in their setup, every (re)install requires some manual intervention?

    In my view, the inability to perform a reinstall is probably the biggest disadvantage of these plans. Sometimes, one experiments with a certain configuration and then would like to experiment with another one, in which case a reinstall can be very useful in order to give a fresh, unmodified configuration, so it's a disadvantage if one can't perform a reinstall.

    I look at these cheap OVZ plans as simply offering backup space. Just set them up with one's preferred backup tools and don't experiment too much!

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • edited June 2018

    GENERAL RESPONSES

    @JoeMerit said:

    how about you fix the $24 worth of VPSes he is talking about?

    I am not bothered about the $24, really, I just wanted to point out to people that they are risking losing real money.

    @jsg said:
    I have a mechanics kit to use your pickup as a 5 ton payload truck. Note that I can't guarantee anything.

    The "Open Source Community" an entire Operating System, including kernel, software packages, servers, clients, libraries, daemons, etc and its all for free. Note that nothing is guaranteed. I just give a fair warning.

    @torrbox said:
    Who on earth would go to a host with an OS that only receives updates for another year and if you try to upgrade it, you won't even be able to use the vps anymore?

    The OpenVZ 2.6.32 kernel is only supposed to be getting updates until November 2019 itself, and plenty of people still buy them. Who on earth buys them.......cheeeeeeeeaaaap people. Even the "Top Providers" here still offer OpenVZ.

    @jsg said:
    OpenVZ always comes with some caveats and "never do that" points

    Being able to run the Operating Systems I describe here is not a restriction of OpenVZ.

    I condemn the "solution" offered here because many of those using it won't understand what they are doing, will create problems, and finally the providers support is the idiot in this game who has to repair the VPSs

    @jsg said:
    hours of support work wasted

    @jsg said:
    So, who will accept responsibility? Provider support.

    There are no extra support needs for people needing reinstalls etc. because cociu just ignores them, sometimes and sometimes not telling them so;

    @jsg said:
    That whole thing IS but a show-off.

    I have provided it as a script for users convienience. I have described all the steps in the script so that non-drones can understand the process and perform it manually if they so wish.

    @jsg said:
    The guy says it basically even himself with his fat "warning". My favourite is the "I accept no responsibilty" warning.

    I have told people that I have only tested my solution on two nodes, both with the same kernel and told them the names of the exact same templates I am using. I have made it clear that people are taking a risk if they use my script, given the support situation at hostsolutions.ro. It shouldn't be a risk to whether people will actually be able to use the VPS they have purchased, but it is. No open source dev ever accepts responsibility for anything - its the users choice to run my script and I help them make an informed choice.

    WHAT VZFIFO IS

    @seanho said:
    Can you tell us more about the vzfifo stuff?

    When an OpenVZ container boots, for some reason it needs to tell the host node it has booted and the convention way this is done is to run the command touch /.vzfifo . For older Linux distributions, this was performed using a single line command in /etc/inittab which is run every time a machine (whether virtual or real) is booted. With the move to systemd, this stopped being the case and so you need to create a systemd service to perform the same function.

    I am not absolutely sure what sourcery is performed by the host node when it sees that the /.vzfifo has been touched, I think it injects or sets up the network configuration or something like that?

    ADVICE

    @cociu - There are two reasons that people who upgraded their operating systems are pissed off and one reason that you get pissed off with them. For the users, it is because:

    • their VPS won't boot any more, and therefore they can't access their data (but I bet very few users actually have this problem because they, like me, only try upgrading OpenVZ on a freshly installed system; and

    • they cannot even reinstall their VPS to a template that does work, because your panel will not let them. They then contact you for support, which I feel is reasonable even on an unmanaged service because the VPS is not booting, and you either ignore them for months or tell them (sometime nastily) "tough luck, you were told not to upgrade".

    Not everyone will see or remember the "do not upgrade" rule as it is only contained in forum posts. There is nothing in the panel by the reinstall button, in the welcome email, etc. Although lowendtalkers will know about the rule and your response by the regular threads on here, most Chinese who don't speak English (and anyone else using Google Translate) will probably have to understood it by the time it's passed through translation.

    You could at least solve the VPS unable to boot and reinstall issue by running four simple commands on each of your Debian / Ubuntu templates, then re-uploading them, which I offer to you here: https://gist.github.com/lowendscripts/489c9583c60355e40f233b1c52ff671b/raw/

    Even if the upgrade fails (and by that I mean daemons (possibly including SSH) stop working, the user can still reinstall their server, and therefore there would be no reason to contact support. The only reason I ever contact support is if a VPS is unbootable, or it's down for more than an hour / 24 hours (depending on criticality and how much I have paid for it) AND I have no idea why it is down. This would mean that it would be unececessary for users to contact support to even try and obtain a reinstall.

    Paragraph redacted as cloudflare won't let it through.

    Adding a clause on your website's terms and conditions file. As of today it doesn't contain any such clause.

    @Falzo said:
    however, hitting a reinstall button in a providers control panel should always exactly do that - reinstalling the VM, regardless of what the former system has been.

    This would be much better!

    @cociu said:
    Te vps in some case was function up to 1-3 month until the customer was make a upgrade

    My script / tutorial automatically installs Ubuntu 16.04.4, which is the most recent distribution, so whatever issues those customers have not occurred so far. While experience with using Ubuntu 16.04 on hostsolutions is limited to basic testing, I have personally been using Debian Stretch on a VPS that I use daily for seven months and have had no problems during this time.

    @cociu said:
    i sell this offers with some terms , one of them is no ubuntu 16, debian 8, centos 7. If for someone is difficult to understand is assume the risk of vm block.

    But you have a Centos 7 image available to install?

  • raindog308raindog308 Moderator

    cociu said: i sell this offers with some terms , one of them is no ubuntu 16, debian 8, centos 7

    ...and...why?

    Just can't be bothered?

    For LET support, please click here.

  • @lowendusername: I'm impressed by all of the effort that you've invested in this. I'm just afraid that your efforts won't be sufficiently appreciated.

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • @angstrom said:
    @lowendusername: I'm impressed by all of the effort that you've invested in this. I'm just afraid that your efforts won't be sufficiently appreciated.

    I also gave him/her a thanks for all that effort put into lowendscripts but I don't know how much it's appreciated, simply because it's rarely necessary; I strongly think not all OpenVZ providers are like HostSolutions. Besides, we are slowly stepping into an era of KVM with idling servers and wasted computing power by non-creative monkeys.

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • @default said: Besides, we are slowly stepping into an era of KVM with idling servers and wasted computing power by non-creative monkeys.

    Why so pessimistic? :-) If OVZ 7 becomes stable by November 2019, providers will continue to offer OVZ. For certain purposes, KVM is overkill (as you also suggest), and this won't change.

    The delicate scenario is if OVZ 7 doesn't become stable by November 2019.

    (This is all independent of HS.)

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • acidpukeacidpuke Member
    edited June 2018

    @cociu said:

    Falzo said: I will always lack the understanding

    what people need to understand here is :

    i sell this offers with some terms , one of them is no ubuntu 16, debian 8, centos 7. If for someone is difficult to understand is assume the risk of vm block.

    Maybe quote Falzo entire line next time....

    I will always lack the understanding why anything done inside the container should be able to break that external process...

    I agree with Falzo

    Simple reinstall client side should bring you back to square one.

    Suggestion... maybe should change whatever system you have in place that breaks everything when a client tries to upgrade, sure would eliminate all this drama and time you spend defending this.

    Thanked by 1Falzo
  • LeeLee Member

    angstrom said: I look at these cheap OVZ plans as simply offering backup space. Just set them up with one's preferred backup tools and don't experiment too much!

    Backups are incredibly important, you're not selling it very well though.

    Use it for backups as long as you don't touch the VM once it is set up, that includes trying to restore any of the backups. Follow these simple rules and it will work great.

    And if you fuck it up, refer to our terms.

    https://www.hostsolutions.ro/eng/about/tos

    It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt

  • @Lee said:

    angstrom said: I look at these cheap OVZ plans as simply offering backup space. Just set them up with one's preferred backup tools and don't experiment too much!

    Backups are incredibly important, you're not selling it very well though.

    Use it for backups as long as you don't touch the VM once it is set up, that includes trying to restore any of the backups. Follow these simple rules and it will work great.

    Think of it as cheap cold storage. :-)

    Thanked by 1Lee

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • jsgjsg Member

    @acidpuke said:

    Falzo said: I will always lack the understanding why anything done inside the container should be able to break that external process

    I agree with Falzo

    And you are both wrong. Reason: OpenVZ is but a glorified jail. Quote from their own site: " OpenVZ, Virtuozzo, Linux-VServer, Solaris Zones and FreeBSD Jails are examples of OS-level virtualization."

    @all
    Why does a provider offer only XYZ? Well, why does my preferred taxi company only use brand X cars? Why does the hotel have brand Y TV sets? Why does my favourite pizzeria use the ingredients they use and make the pizza the way they do it?

    Providers can and do make choices - you like their choice, great; you don't like it, just find your preferred choice somewhere else.

    From what I see the simple truth behind this whole non-story is that some customers want the low prices of provider A but the features of provider B.

    I'm currently doing a multi week benchmark/test with @rootnerds. To be honest I didn't even ask or care what OS version the OpenVZ VPS runs. Ubuntu this or debian that, no matter, I can run my vpsbench software, I can apt-get update and install my editor and other software I like, so why the hell should I care (Btw. the results of thet rootnerds VPS are quite nice now. I'll soon present an interim report here).

    @lowendusername

    I'm a developer myself so trust me that I can see what drove you. And I do not criticize your research and tinkering at all. It's just that there are other factors too like the fact where you present it and how you present it.

    To be clear: there ARE already customers who want the prices of @cociu but the features of other providers and they create problems. What you did here will make it worse because (a) it makes it easier and (b) they will say "but I used the safe way! I used the script from LET!"

    And frankly it seems to me that you also wanted to create some pressure, something like "see! It can be done. No problems. So why does cociu not offer it?"

    But a provider is free to sell what he pleases. There simply IS NO right you or any customer has to demand a provider to offer this feature A or that feature B. Maybe it would be simple, maybe you don't like the providers reason but in the end it's HIS RIGHT to chose what he offers. And of course it's your right to dislike his offer and to shop elsewhere. But if you chose to buy his product you are bound by his choice and rules.

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  • LeeLee Member

    jsg said: And you are both wrong. Reason: OpenVZ is but a glorified jail.

    Insightful, you should post here more often.

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    It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt

  • @jsg said:

    So, who will accept responsibility?

    Root. Always root.

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  • @jsg said:
    But a provider is free to sell what he pleases. There simply IS NO right you or any customer has to demand a provider to offer this feature A or that feature B. Maybe it would be simple, maybe you don't like the providers reason but in the end it's HIS RIGHT to chose what he offers. And of course it's your right to dislike his offer and to shop elsewhere. But if you chose to buy his product you are bound by his choice and rules.

    Well... in my opinion this is somewhat wrong. There is the right of customer to ask not demand feature A and B and even C. That's called feedback and service improvement potential. There is the right of provider to actually listen to that feedback and improve accordingly, because business can grow with future customers. I agree with you there is the option to shop elsewhere, but in a good business this is to be avoided, because it would mean loosing actual clients and potential future clients.

    In this topic, OP found a way to improve provider's services by creating scripts, because provider, in an attempt to enforce his rights, possibly did not listen to customer needs for service improvements. Such scripts usage are a typical answer from serious and responsible clients trying to solve their issues without bothering support staff. Again... there is the right to do nothing, but this game of ping-pong with rights can only lead to customers shopping elsewhere.

    Customers like to have options (even though they don't always need em). They like to see dynamic providers who constantly look for options and always try to bring something new to their business, not wishing to limit their business to some static rights and rules.

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • jsgjsg Member
    edited June 2018

    @Lee said:
    It's better to keep your mouth closed, and let everyone wonder if you're stupid; than to open it and remove all doubt.

    ;)

    @default said:

    @jsg said:
    But a provider is free to sell what he pleases. There simply IS NO right you or any customer has to demand a provider to offer this feature A or that feature B. ...

    Well... in my opinion this is somewhat wrong. There is the right of customer to ask not demand feature A and B and even C.

    See, that's what I meant. I agree but we don't discuss customers asking for something. We are talking about those demanding and - against providers declared will and rule - try to force their way. And now they have a script to make it easy.

    In this topic, OP found a way to improve provider's services by creating scripts, because provider, in an attempt to enforce his rights, possibly did not listen to customer needs for service improvements. Such scripts usage are a typical answer from serious and responsible clients trying to solve their issues without bothering support staff. Again... there is the right to do nothing, but this game of ping-pong with rights can only lead to customers shopping elsewhere.

    No. OP didn't find a way to improve. He found a way to make it easy to go against providers declared rule.

    And, No again, those scripts are not a "typical answer from serious and responsible clients". They are the answer of someone to ease and largely automize breaking providers declared rule. It might be helpful to keep in mind that all this happens on the node, the property of provider and against his declared will.

    The typical answer from a serious and responsible client is to first look at the offer and to think about it and then if after careful consideration he decides to buy to stick to the rules.

    Customers like to have options (even though they don't always need em). They like to see dynamic providers who constantly look for options and always try to bring something new to their business, not wishing to limit their business to some static rights and rules.

    Is it smart from provider to not offer something that is obviously desired by many (potential and actual) customers? Probably not. Is he OBLIGED to offer what they want? No. Maybe it's not smart but it's his right. Are the customers entitled to break providers rules and to abuse HIS property? Certainly not.

    We should remember a simple fact: We customers use something that is the property of someone else and doing so we are obliged to stick to his rules. If we don't like his rules or what he offers we are free to look somewhere else.

  • @default - Note to self: never accept an offer from @jsg because there will be only rules and obligations and rights.

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  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider
    edited June 2018

    @default said:
    @default - Note to self: never accept an offer from anybody ever because there will be only rules and obligations and rights.

    >

    Fixed that for you. ;)

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • @KuJoe said:

    @default said:
    @default - Note to self: never accept an offer from anybody ever because there will be only rules and obligations and rights.

    >

    Fixed that for you. ;)

    Thanked by 1KuJoe

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • jsgjsg Member

    @default said:
    @default - Note to self: never accept an offer from @jsg because there will be only rules and obligations and rights.

    • Don't worry, I don't sell any kind of hosting anyway.
    • There are always and everywhere rules, obligations and rights.
  • I only store my Linux isos here. A day or two downtime per month doesn't bother me that way.

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  • FalzoFalzo Member

    @bsdguy Hi!

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  • jsgjsg Member

    @vimalware said:
    I only store my Linux isos here. A day or two downtime per month doesn't bother me that way.

    That's what I meant above. Why would I care about this or that OS version or want only a current one as long as the software I need runs fine and does its job. Also that use case (storage) is something I had in mind when I said I don't like OpenVZ but can understand when some like it for some jobs.

  • @Falzo said:
    @bsdguy Hi!

    You mean: @jsg = @bsdguy? Not improbable.

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  • cociucociu Member, Provider
    edited June 2018

    to avoid this in the next offer i will put 2 different links with 2 price , like :

    1) offer 1 old templates (actual price 4.50 eur)

    2) offer 2 all templates posible including the new ones in price 5.50 eur/1tb.

    I can beat from now .... i will sell 10 x more in 4.5 compared with the 5.5 eur. So who will want new kernel will be but you must to pay for what you ask. Everybody content ?

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  • raindog308raindog308 Moderator

    angstrom said: You mean: @jsg = @bsdguy? Not improbable.

    @jsg seems like @bsdguy with the asshole removed.

    @jsg, that is a compliment. @bsdguy was a very erudite member here whose contentious personality caused problems and he left. Other than his bizarre, threatening rants, he was a font of wisdom, though the Venn diagram between his specialized world and LET was a pretty small overlap.

    You arrived a bit after he left.

    For LET support, please click here.

  • to avoid this in the next offer i will put 2 different links with 2 price , like :

    2) offer 2 all templates possible including the new ones in price 5.50 eur/1tb.

    If by "new Kernel" you mean Kernel 3 and OpenVZ 7, you still have an industry beating offer.

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