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a paypal history !
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a paypal history !

cociucociu Member, Provider
edited November 2017 in General

Hello,

i will start to present what i know.

In the day 6.11.2017 i have recive a email from paypal like our account is new in sales and for this we will have all incomming founds blocked durring the next 30 days. I have ried for the moment and i have call paypal to see what happened :

Surprise : a girl from paypal callcenter wich had no ideea what we sell is ask me and what is a service not a fiscal goods is asking me for traking number. After 15 min to explain about what we do and how this work is give me a coleage to explain me what happened with our account.

So .... here we go , past month we had 3 disputed opened (all 3 from chiness guy , nothing with him , i perfectly understand some person from there is not educated do ask in a tiket or send a email and is opened directly a dispute in paypal, so i assume this risk) but .. i have win 2 of them and one i have give full refound withowt any explication, so this second girl from paypal hi make this remark about this 3 chargeback and this is the problem what paypal explain for my blocked money.

Now the account is from 2012 , is a bussiness account with all verified , and we move +xxx eur/year (sorry i will not give the amount ) with this account.

more , we have many tranzactions small so the risk is verry reparted between many persons.

to note , is bloking including the recurring payments from clients who is with us from 4-5 years withowt any problem.

So i think is a little abusive , for me is not so important to have money blocked there right now .. but is still our money way should be blocked ? Paypal have documents from my company , we have a huge historial , etc etc ...

So what do you think ?

edited: just recived this today im my account too like a message :

Detalles de disponibilidad de los fondos
Como ha comenzado a vender recientemente con PayPal, los pagos que reciba se colocarán temporalmente en su saldo pendiente durante hasta 21 días. Los fondos se retienen para liquidar los pagos en caso que hay problemas con la transacción.
Se le considerará un vendedor nuevo de PayPal hasta que:

Mantenga sus pagos en el saldo pendiente durante 60 días, contados desde la fecha en que reciba su primer pago.
15
060
Una vez cumplidos estos requisitos, se le reconocerá como vendedor permanente y sus pagos no se colocarán en un saldo pendiente, siempre que no haya otro tipo de problema con la transacción.
¿Por qué mis fondos no están disponibles en cuanto recibo el pago?
Al retrasar la disponibilidad de los pagos por hasta 21 días, tenemos tiempo para asegurarnos de que no haya problemas con el pedido. Dentro de los problemas se incluyen las controversias, reclamaciones, devoluciones o devoluciones de cargo.

Para obtener más información, vaya a la disponibilidad de fondos en el Centro de Seguridad o póngase en contacto con nuestro Servicio de Atención al Cliente.

«1

Comments

  • Where and when PayPal can fuck you and keep your money- they will.

  • SmallWebSmallWeb Member, Provider

    Is it a 100% hold or a lower percentage? PayPal sometimes does a 30 - 50% hold for each transaction for 30 days when your provide a service with no tracking information, in my experience.

    Michael from SmallWeb - Please use official support methods for help.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    WSS said: Where and when PayPal can fuck you and keep your money- they will.

    not so easy ....

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    Ho-ost said: Is it a 100% hold or a lower percentage? PayPal sometimes does a 30 - 50% hold for each transaction for 30 days when your provide a service with no tracking information, in my experience.

    is 100% , like i tell is including in recurring payments what i recive from many years withowt any problem

  • SmallWebSmallWeb Member, Provider

    @cociu said:

    Ho-ost said: Is it a 100% hold or a lower percentage? PayPal sometimes does a 30 - 50% hold for each transaction for 30 days when your provide a service with no tracking information, in my experience.

    is 100% , like i tell is including in recurring payments what i recive from many years withowt any problem

    When you go into the "money" section on the navigation bar, does it explain why they are held under your balance?

    Michael from SmallWeb - Please use official support methods for help.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    Ho-ost said: When you go into the "money" section on the navigation bar, does it explain why they are held under your balance?

    i just edited so you can translate from spanish

    Thanked by 1SmallWeb
  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    cociu said: Detalles de disponibilidad de los fondos Como ha comenzado a vender recientemente con PayPal

    lol, like i have started to sell today

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    Your only chance is to call them again, yell and tell them you'll take your business somewhere else. This is, from what I heard, a very effective way.

    In our experience: Portugal's PayPal support is superb. They are extremely professional and really nice to be honest, although there's not much they can do unless you speak to a higher-up agent, or ask them to escalate it further.

  • SmallWebSmallWeb Member, Provider

    @cociu said:

    cociu said: Detalles de disponibilidad de los fondos Como ha comenzado a vender recientemente con PayPal

    lol, like i have started to sell today

    I think you can typically request a review every 3 - 6 months for them to remove/lower or keep it.

    Michael from SmallWeb - Please use official support methods for help.

  • farnoxfarnox Member, Provider

    They do this all the time. Google paypal + frozen funds.

    They probably want some documents from you. Send it over or sue them. PayPal is one of the worst companies to deal with (and unfortunately one of the most important).

  • maxwellmaxwell Member
    edited November 2017

    Just fuck paypal and get something else, and never do any buisness with chinese people again....

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    This is normal. It’s a high risk account now and they want to have funds to cover chargebacks. Ask them to lift it after 6 months or so. They will probably reduce the hold to 30% over 30 days or so, or leave it as it is if the account history does not improve.

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  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    MikePT said: Your only chance is to call them again, yell and tell them you'll take your business somewhere else. This is, from what I heard, a very effective way.

    In our experience: Portugal's PayPal support is superb. They are extremely professional and really nice to be honest, although there's not much they can do unless you speak to a higher-up agent, or ask them to escalate it further.

    i will not lost time because when i have call i spend more than 1 hour and the results was zero, for me is the same have it disponible or not , but i dont see this correct because i will give you a exemple. Let take 5000$ balance . To ghet 5000 dollars with 4.5 eur /tranzaction is arrownd 1100 tranzactions no ? so what posibility have to make all chargeback togheter ? i think is abuse from paypal , nothing more.

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  • SmallWebSmallWeb Member, Provider

    @Clouvider said:
    This is normal. It’s a high risk account now and they want to have funds to cover chargebacks. Ask them to lift it after 6 months or so. They will probably reduce the hold to 30% over 30 days or so, or leave it as it is if the account history does not improve.

    Agreed, a reduction to 30% seems typical.

    But the review period usually asks you to identify tracking for selected transactions, and deny you if you enter 0, so I suggest calling for it.

    Thanked by 1WSS

    Michael from SmallWeb - Please use official support methods for help.

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    cociu said: i will not lost time because when i have call i spend more than 1 hour and the results was zero, for me is the same have it disponible or not , but i dont see this correct because i will give you a exemple. Let take 5000$ balance . To ghet 5000 dollars with 4.5 eur /tranzaction is arrownd 1100 tranzactions no ? so what posibility have to make all chargeback togheter ? i think is abuse from paypal , nothing more.

    Do you have your account fully verified? Submitted all documentation for your company? Director roles, etc etc?

  • cociucociu Member, Provider
    edited November 2017

    MikePT said: Do you have your account fully verified? Submitted all documentation for your company? Director roles, etc etc?

    yes, also 3 cards atacched and 2 bank account all verified

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @cociu said:

    MikePT said: Do you have your account fully verified? Submitted all documentation for your company? Director roles, etc etc?

    yes

    What did they tell you last time, if you only had 3 chargebacks last month but more than 1.1k transactions?

  • In the long run, PayPal will cost you more in both processing and withholding than getting your own MID. You obviously have the resources- get to it!

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    MikePT said: What did they tell you last time, if you only had 3 chargebacks last month but more than 1.1k transactions?

    unfortunatly i speack only with the first and second girl wich i think is the minimal level , asking him to pass me with a supervisor or something is denied and is repeating the same shit about traking number and the risk. Forgott to mention the total amount for all this 3 tranzaction is 4.5+4.5 +40 eur. So 49 eur. In the day when we have block my account i had 7900 dollars there and 3000 eur and 1700 GBP so what the fuck ? menatime i still grow because is came the recurring and the new orders.

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  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    WSS said: What is love? Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. No more.

    lol, i will not hurt you , i sell Vaseline tooo

  • @cociu said:

    WSS said: What is love? Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. No more.

    lol, i will not hurt you , i sell Vaseline tooo

    Noo. Use the pretty perfume, instead.

    Thanked by 2cociu inthecloudblog
  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    cociu said: unfortunatly i speack only with the first and second girl wich i think is the minimal level , asking him to pass me with a supervisor or something is denied and is repeating the same shit about traking number and the risk. Forgott to mention the total amount for all this 3 tranzaction is 4.5+4.5 +40 eur. So 49 eur. In the day when we have block my account i had 7900 dollars there and 3000 eur and 1700 GBP so what the fuck ? menatime i still grow because is came the recurring and the new orders.

    They now cover intangible items, so that risk thing shouldn't be valid for you. I'd insist with them, call them every hour, or get your lawyer to email them or send a registered letter.

  • @cociu said:

    Ho-ost said: When you go into the "money" section on the navigation bar, does it explain why they are held under your balance?

    i just edited so you can translate from spanish

    Why not in Romanian language but in spanish? Are you registered in spain or am missing something here?

  • FlamesRunnerFlamesRunner Member
    edited November 2017

    @Ho-ost

    If only that were true with eBay, I'd still sell there.

    I can provide whatever tracking # I want and even if they recognize that it was delivered, it's 21 days no matter what. 21 days, even if I have around 60 100% ratings as a seller. It wasn't until this type of thing happened to me that I realized why providers hate PayPal.

    wget https://s.flamz.pw/dl/bench.sh && bash bench.sh

    curl https://s.flamz.pw/analytics/bench/stats.php

  • SmallWebSmallWeb Member, Provider

    @FlamesRunner said:
    @Ho-ost

    If only that were true with eBay, I'd still sell there.

    I can provide whatever tracking # I want and even if they recognize that it was delivered, it's 21 days no matter what. 21 days, even if I have around 60 100% ratings as a seller. It wasn't until this type of thing happened to me that I realized why providers hate PayPal.

    Yes, they are very picky in whether they enforce their own policies properly or not. It's a shame.

    Michael from SmallWeb - Please use official support methods for help.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    also nothing logically , look some tranzactions :

    1) tranzaction wht i recived today :


    Importe retenido

    38,14 USD

    Fecha de retención: 21 de noviembre de 2017

    Fecha de liberación: 24 de noviembre de 2017

    Asegúrese de incluir su información de envío o número de rastreo. Este pago permanecerá en su saldo pendiente hasta 24 de noviembre de 2017. Podría estar disponible antes, una vez que sepamos que la transacción se ha completado sin problemas.

    tranzaction from the day 07.11.2017 :


    Importe retenido
    0,66 USD

    Fecha de retención: 7 de noviembre de 2017

    Fecha de liberación: 28 de noviembre de 2017
    Asegúrese de incluir su información de envío o número de rastreo. Este pago permanecerá en su saldo pendiente hasta 28 de noviembre de 2017. Podría estar disponible antes, una vez que sepamos que la transacción se ha completado sin problemas.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    so the old tranzaction have much more to wait and the new one only some days ... lol this is really stupid.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    WHT said: Why not in Romanian language but in spanish? Are you registered in spain or am missing something here?

    nothing important , i am spanish citizen too ...

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  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    MikePT said: They now cover intangible items, so that risk thing shouldn't be valid for you. I'd insist with them, call them every hour, or get your lawyer to email them or send a registered letter.

    PayPal has right, as per the contract, to limit the account, which they did, and they have grounds. Pattern fits their fraud pattern, they blocked it, probably automatically.

    @cociu has a right to move to a different provider if he doesn't like it, but we tried it with PayPal and they dragged us through all sorts of different reserves through almost entire 2014, shy of 3 weeks.

    This is the very risk of doing business with China @AnthonySmith talks about. In this case, it's materialised.

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  • cociucociu Member, Provider
    edited November 2017

    Clouvider said: This is the very risk of doing business with China @AnthonySmith talks about. In this case, it's materialised.

    logical measures ? Block all this money what came from china and let the oters to circulate. No ? but what is my explication is verry simple and with more logical comment :

    if i am paypal and i block some thousand of accounts (put the reason of this for 3 chargeback with a valor of a good drink 49 eur) and block more than 10k durring 30 day i make proffit only from dividentes in different inversion. is the only way i see right now. I repeat is bloking including some recurring payments who have from more than 4 years from the old clients .

    i do not negate about the right here , i complain the logical , any bank from my country when see a client with so much tranzactions /mo and have only 3 incidents with a verry verry small import will not tell you nothing. Now paypal is paypal , i will give you a true details here :

    i have 5 accounts with paypal , 2 company in spain , 2 in romania, and one personal account in romaina.

    Way way paypal charge more fees in romania compared with spain ? because is a racist , and is benefit from 3rd county , way is so easy block accounts from Romania and others county wich is not rich ? because is incorect business. But never mind i know i have acceptes this terms but is not correct and never will be. I repeat i have been luck because is not affecting my business but a small company from here wich have the account blocked is easy close the doors . And we talk about many years history and many many tranzactions. This is just my 2 cents.

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @Clouvider said:

    MikePT said: They now cover intangible items, so that risk thing shouldn't be valid for you. I'd insist with them, call them every hour, or get your lawyer to email them or send a registered letter.

    PayPal has right, as per the contract, to limit the account, which they did, and they have grounds. Pattern fits their fraud pattern, they blocked it, probably automatically.

    @cociu has a right to move to a different provider if he doesn't like it, but we tried it with PayPal and they dragged us through all sorts of different reserves through almost entire 2014, shy of 3 weeks.

    This is the very risk of doing business with China @AnthonySmith talks about. In this case, it's materialised.

    Yeah indeed, that's right, but they still profit a lot with customers like @cociu. As I said, the portuguese representatives are just awesome, we never had a single issue with them tbh. We do not have a high volume of transactions though.

  • LeeLee Member
    edited November 2017

    Sounds to me like you are getting enough new business from a location they do not like (chargebacks) such as China, you have started to get said chargebacks and they limit your account as a result. Had it happen to me in the past after years of no issues.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    Lee said: Sounds to me like you are getting enough new business from a location they do not like (chargebacks) such as China, you have started to get said chargebacks and they limit your account as a result. Had it happen to me in the past after years of no issues.

    yes all chargeback was from china guys , but is easy if you want to solve the problem , block only china money and let the others. Also if you see a user is make more than 10-20-30-etc chargeback block the user not the business with many years of history. just my 2 cents

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    @cociu it's not personal, that's all about a risk profile. We had similar with HSBC, in this case, they did not limit us, but we had to introduce 3D Secure so that liability is passed to the issuing bank.

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  • cociucociu Member, Provider
    edited November 2017

    Clouvider said: @cociu it's not personal, that's all about a risk profile. We had similar with HSBC, in this case, they did not limit us, but we had to introduce 3D Secure so that liability is passed to the issuing bank.

    personal with me no , but personal with 3rd country i am preatty sure , sorry maybe i am wrong. But like Mike tell before , in portugal the call center is verry helpfull , maybe in uk the same , in spain is excelent , now i have call for my romainan account ... pfffffffff different storry. And beleve me i have call to spain to resolve this isssue and the guys from there is tell me i need to call to the number what is posted in my account (wich is dedicated to this part of world) so yes have different treatment.

    but any way , i repeat for me is zero importance , i am still amusing and i like to share with the comunity. so go to hell paypal .

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  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    cociu said: personal with me no , but personal with 3rd country i am preatty sure , sorry maybe i am wrong. But like Mike tell before , in portugal the call center is verry helpfull , maybe in uk the same , in spain is excelent , now i have call for my romainan account ... pfffffffff different storry. And beleve me i have call to spain to resolve this isssue and the guys from there is tell me i need to call to the number what is posted in my account (wich is dedicated to this part of world) so yes have different treatment.

    That's for sure true, same happens with OVH.

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    MikePT said: That's for sure true, same happens with OVH.

    also i pay fees 2 x more than spain for exemple. What is the explication is not the same dollar ? or the same business model ? MORE is pay less salary to the people who work in this part of world so less cost. So what is the explication for the doble fees compared with spain if paypal have here less cost ?

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  • cociu said: if you see a user is make more than 10-20-30-etc chargeback block the user not the business with many years of history

    That's not how it works.

    Clouvider said: all about a risk profile

    That is how it works, China is a problem country in finance, especially virtual services. Like it or not fraud is rife, so blocking the user is a given, they keep coming back though.

    The answer? Cut them off at the source, that is you, the business that is accepting them or limit your account to ensure there is always sufficient funds for you to pay it, not Paypal.

    It's the price you pay for what you offer and more importantly, the segment that is buying from you that PayPal know is problematic.

  • Three chargebacks, two unsuccessful, one successful - resulting in account blocked, all money taken. Paypal's actions don't seem justified to me.

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  • @Janevski said:
    Three chargebacks, two unsuccessful, one successful - resulting in account blocked, all money taken. Paypal's actions don't seem justified to me.

    Paypal monitors everything in your account, it's not just the 3 attempted chargebacks, they look at where they are coming from and the business that you are doing from the same region and take the view that if you have had x chargebacks out of x transactions then more are likely to follow.

    There is no way around it other than to accept it, work with them and get the limiter reduced or removed over time, get more chargebacks though and it won't happen.

    The alternative is leave them but your never going to get far without supporting PayPal.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    @Janevski said:
    Three chargebacks, two unsuccessful, one successful - resulting in account blocked, all money taken. Paypal's actions don't seem justified to me.

    Ain't nothing taken. Just 30 days rolling reserve applied so they can cover CBs as the CB ratio grows.

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  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @cociu said:

    MikePT said: That's for sure true, same happens with OVH.

    also i pay fees 2 x more than spain for exemple. What is the explication is not the same dollar ? or the same business model ? MORE is pay less salary to the people who work in this part of world so less cost. So what is the explication for the doble fees compared with spain if paypal have here less cost ?

    We pay huge fees as well.

  • cubedatacubedata Member, Provider

    we decided to block all Chinese people & other high risk countries due to this chargeback issue as the final straw for us was when a Chinese person recently bought a owned license from us and then would you believe it charge backed aka not with paypal where it could have been resolved more easier but directly with their bank so now we are out of $100 + $20 chargeback fee from paypal so yes we have gotten way more strict like @AnthonySmith did and we completely understand the issues & struggle dealing with this and is why we will no longer accept anyone from China or other high risk countries anymore.

    Check out all of our custom modules here: https://cubedata.net for both blesta & whmcs.

  • If China is so risky, why paypal deals with it? Why no block like in india or turkey?

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    @WHT said:
    If China is so risky, why paypal deals with it? Why no block like in india or turkey?

    India and a Turkey are their local gov blocks IIRC.

    Believe it or not, but PayPal is not only used to sell hosting.

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  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member
    edited November 2017

    Just dropping this in as I have been mentioned 5 times, I do not 'like' not doing business with China, I hate that it makes me look like I am marginalizing based on race, that is just not who I am.

    The reality is, the way the Chinese do business is aggressive, every penny counts, it is why they will be laughing at the rest of us underdeveloped nations in about 50 - 100 years, I really believe that.

    But due to population density and the obvious culture and language barrier, the hard cold fact is the chargeback, dispute and abuse ratio and volume compared to anywhere else is through the roof.

    So at this point, it is self-preservation.

    That said I have a few irons in the fire right now to give me the option of only offering certain payment types based on the country so I will be over the moon to lift the China and Brazil ban I have.

    EDIT: On the topic of the thread :)

    I have seen this done to a company before, they could get no answers for almost 90 days then one day they could not login, PayPal had closed their account without notice and when he called they said they would contact him in 180 days to arrange the release of the funds locked in the account.

    That was only about £2000 at the time iirc so not the end of the world but not fun for a small business either, they had their paypal account for around 10 years too, but no ability to take paypal would have been devastating.

    He just went to a bank, opened a new account, opened a new PayPal account, verified it, and was up and running again in less than a week.

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  • My eyes hurt by reading this post.

  • @drdrake said:
    My eyes hurt by reading this post.

    Yes, can anyone explain the reason of such behaviour from PayPal in in couple of sentences.

  • Paypal has been ban in China according to my language

  • Gulf said: Yes, can anyone explain the reason of such behaviour from PayPal in in couple of sentences.

    Paypal have risk based rules to reduce potential losses, accept it or find another payment processor.

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