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Hetzner denied signup :( - Page 4
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Hetzner denied signup :(

124

Comments

  • mkshmksh Member
    edited July 2018

    @Jarry said:
    Not sure where Hetzner is incorporated and what rules/laws are there, but where I live, if someone is making business by publicly offering his services, he is not allowed to pick whom is he going to serve and whom not.

    If you come to pub, headwaiter can not send you out just because he thinks you want to drink but you have no intention to pay your bill afterwards. If he ever tried, it could be taken to court and he would loose badly. He may do it only if he has very good reason for it (and is able to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt). Just supposal is no such a reason...

    You might be surprised who is actually making an offer to whom legally speaking. I am with @deank here just sue them and find out. I very much doubt you'd get anywhere.

  • FalzoFalzo Member

    mksh said: You might be surprised who is actually making an offer to whom legally speaking.

    so much this! finally someone who knows what an "invitatio ad offerendum" really is ;-)

    Thanked by 1farnox
  • williewillie Member

    Jarry said: I'm surprise so many vps/web-hosters simply deny service to potential customers without giving any (or just very vague) reason for it...

    In fact they often don't know the reason. They put the transaction data into an opaque statistical model, a number comes out the other end, and if the number is above some risk threshold they decided, they decline the purchase and that's that.

    There is a book about this called "Weapons of Math Destruction" which describes various horrible consequences of this for people when applied to higher-impact areas like job applicant screening. But for vps hosting, meh.

  • salmonsalmon Member

    @Clouvider said:
    They may store the vague reason, or not at all. They don't need to produce any data for you under GDPR - so they won't have to explain it at all.

    Unsure what you mean that they don't have to produce any information under the GDPR. Any personal information they stored can be requested by the data subject, this is called Right of access: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-of-access/

    However, I'm not sure they store any 'personal data' once you get denied access as it lets you try to open account immediately after with the same email and details.

    Anyway my account was authorized after sending them an email, so I'm happy as the pricing for the specs is extremely good. NVMe, 20tb bandwidth, 4GB ram for an amazing price.

  • salmonsalmon Member

    @deank said:
    Hetzner, shattering fragile ego of millennials since 1997.

    You seem to enjoy people getting rejected from VPS providers. Do you get a kick out of it?

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Of course, I do.

  • salmonsalmon Member

    @deank said:
    Of course, I do.

    aha :-) have you tried Hetzner? Very impressed with the VPS performance for the price on initial testing.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    I am not a consumer.

  • It's a general problem. I have been rejected by a few places for technicalities or no reason stated and they all don't care about you and won't change their decision no matter what. You could offer to visit Hetzner in person and pay a 1k cash deposit, but they won't accept you because fuck you. It's their rules. That's why.

    Even though I think it's super cringy and unwise (the value of a business relationship probably exceeds the cost of an extended verification for the few who really really want a server), it's best to just move on.

  • Hetzner_OLHetzner_OL Member, Top Host

    Hi LET readers, Sorry for not responding earlier. I can't always check LET every day. I will try to respond to as many comments as possible. Forgive me if I miss anyone's questions/criticisms.

    It may sound terrible, but a server has the potential to cause a great deal of damage in the wrong hands, just like a controlled substance or a weapon. It's our responsibility to help protect the community, and we take this very seriously.

    The GDPR, to my knowledge, does not include any provisions that companies are legally required to state why they deny a potential customer service. You can make a request with our data protection officier for any information that we have, but I imagine it would be very little if you were a customer who was denied an account. This information would not include the details of why you were rejected. But it might include some score from the risk assessment software that we use in the first level of our process. The rest of the assesment is done manually by our staff. We don't record the team members's thought process. Their ultimate decision of whether your information looked fake or legitimate would be marked. (But I am not sure if they use those particular words in their notes.) To my knowledge, they do not note the cause for their decision. The email to our data protection officer is [email protected].

    Any IDs we use for the authentication process are immediately deleted after we confirm your ID. The rest of your customer information is kept in accordance with our policy listed here: https://www.hetzner.com/rechtliches/datenschutz/ (See "Registration data".)

    Please understand that the vast majority of orders are rejected. For every 100 orders where we ask for additional ID, we don't receive any response for 90 of those. It would be a waste of resources to provide reasons for all 100 cases. But we do not provide details on purpose. In the past, when we did provide details, it lead to scammers/spammers fixing the small problem. Then they would abuse the servers. In the new system (which is indeed non-transparent) we have much, much less abuse.

    There are many things that could lead to an order raising flags as a false positive. My colleague joked with me the other day that the name of my hometown, Niceville, might even look suspicious despite the fact that it's a real place. Even when I still lived in the US, I had orders rejected because of this. But I was always able to clear the matter up by calling the company and speaking to a support representative.

    The truth of the matter is that real people who are rejected are 1) capable about thinking why they are rejected 2) fixing that information 3) or providing us a logical explanation for why their information might look suspicious.

    But even then, there might still be a very small number of false positives. So if you're rejected multiple times, we assume that you will be upset. We know we have lost your business. But we accept that. But as @torrbox says, "it's best to just move on".

    We understand that our non-transparent process is frustrating. For that we are sorry. We truly do not mean to cause offense to anyone. --Katie, Marketing

  • angstromangstrom Moderator
    edited July 2018

    @Hetzner_OL said: My colleague joked with me the other day that the name of my hometown, Niceville, might even look suspicious despite the fact that it's a real place.

    At least it isn't Smallville!

    Thanked by 1Hetzner_OL
  • @Hetzner_OL said:
    Please understand that the vast majority of orders are rejected. For every 100 orders where we ask for additional ID, we don't receive any response for 90 of those.

    Wow, those are really shocking statistics! I never realized that the fraud (or attempted fraud) rate was so high. I'm in a totally different business than you, where the assumption is that new clients will be legitimate and honorable, and in 95%+ of cases, that's what happens. If my business had the same amount of issues with "bad actors" as yours, it would certainly be a game changer.

    Thanks very much for providing your perspective, Katie. I think it'll help people to understand what large, reputable providers like Hetzner are up against.

  • Hetzner signup went smoothly for me, whole process took 2 hours or less. I'm from one of those risky countries and all the documents i sent were in my local language.

    The worst signup experience i ever had was with SYS, after waiting 5+ days they denied validation and asked for a selfie holding my ID. By the time they reviewed that and validated my account, server was out of stock and had to pay a little extra and go with hetzner instead.

    Thanked by 1Hetzner_OL
  • Do as what they say in the mail if u want it so bad buddy.
    It's normal that deactivation just happens. Do as what they say in the mail to activate it again. Deactivation is not equal to deletion.

  • @salmon said:
    @Hetzner_OL your authentication system is either broken or you have a reason stored to reject me. Tried to sign up twice. I have a UK IP, UK address, UK debit card and UK passport, all entered correctly as far as I can tell and rejected.

    You must remember that data you process and store is now subject to the GDPR in the EU. So send over the reason or fix your system :-)

    Update: account got verified after I responded asking if they wanted more documentation and what was wrong. Seems very odd, maybe the image I sent was too big? Was around 4mb.

    Seems like the deactivation mail is sent automatically after a certain time. Happened to me before I was verified.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Micro necro. Somebody wants postcount.

  • What country are you from? Did you sign up using a VPN? Have you ever signed up before?

    I signed up to them when I was at home in Lebanon and didn't get denied entry. They give you the server before you even pay, so they need good fraud protection!

  • where is @eol ?

    Thanked by 1eol
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    eol has reached his End Of Life.

    Thanked by 1eol
  • @deank said:
    eol has reached his End Of Life.

    what caused it ? man flu ?

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    U see, eol is a form of mushroom whose lifespan is only 14 days. Once it dies, a new eol will be born on its former corpse.

    To sum it up, it will be back soon.

    Thanked by 3eol uxtvdl vimalware
  • eoleol Member

    @uxtvdl said:
    where is @eol ?

    I'm here.
    Don't worry.

    Thanked by 1uxtvdl
  • eoleol Member

    @deank said:
    eol has reached his End Of Life.

    LOL.
    Not yet.

  • @eol said:

    @uxtvdl said:
    where is @eol ?

    I'm here.
    Don't worry.

    hetzner thread and eol not there ?

  • eoleol Member

    @uxtvdl said:

    @eol said:

    @uxtvdl said:
    where is @eol ?

    I'm here.
    Don't worry.

    hetzner thread and eol not there ?

    Thread is older than me.

  • oh

    Thanked by 1eol
  • @eol said:

    @uxtvdl said:

    @eol said:

    @uxtvdl said:
    where is @eol ?

    I'm here.
    Don't worry.

    hetzner thread and eol not there ?

    Thread is older than me.

    ohhhh

    Thanked by 2eol uptime
  • banxixbanxix Member
    edited January 2019

    I also get rejected after sending my ID. Maybe I'm from "risky" country in their list and my ID is not in English but I don't bother to ask because I know they would not response and like other people say, you should just move on because they are not the only hosting provider.

    However I think they should have more constructive information beforehand when they want a user to send them verification information, like require those information in English or ask user to translate their ID card (as in first page they said they did not have international staff). This would not harm their non-transparent system I guess.

    They also ask me to send $20 by prepaid card or Paypal to confirm as the second method. I just don't know if this method is more efficient than ID card, and how long I would receive my money back if I will get rejected.

  • TripleflixTripleflix Member
    edited January 2019

    i've created an account with Hetzner just a few months ago.. didnt even got asked to send in an ID or any other confirmation as far as i know..

  • eoleol Member

    i've created an account with Hetzner just a few years ago.. didnt even got asked to send in an ID or any other confirmation as far as i know..

    Thanked by 1uxtvdl
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