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Do you have a Paypal subscription? YOU maintain it!!!!
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Do you have a Paypal subscription? YOU maintain it!!!!

DamianDamian Member
edited April 2013 in Providers

Nothing ruins your day like a former client not cancelling their Paypal subscription, then OPENING A DISPUTE about it instead of just contacting us. What the fuck. We're not the ones maintaining YOUR subscription. What the hell is wrong with people!?

image

/rant

«13

Comments

  • You need to auto cancel it once the client cancelled their service.

    Cheap VPS - VPSDime

  • RalliasRallias Member, Provider
    edited April 2013

    Oh my god, so true. Multiple times I've seen people complaining about us on WHT because we have no ability to cancel their paypal subscription.

    Also, for the stupid: https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp?cmd=_help&solutionId=27715&t=solutionTab

    @serverian said: You need to auto cancel it once the client cancelled their service.

    The thing is, unless there's some magical hot sauce solution I've not seen, neither WHMCS nor Paypal offer any way for the PROVIDER to do this, only the client.

  • NekkiNekki Moderator

    @serverian said: You need to auto cancel it once the client cancelled their service.

    No, you need to sort it yourself. If you forget to manage you own subs, it's your problem, not the service providers.

    Here lies Nekki. He loved massive amounts of storage, K-Pop and calling people cunts.

  • And this is why I'll never setup a paypal subscription and prefer to pay my bills manually every month.

    Catalyst Host - Pie Approved!
  • @Rallias said: The thing is, unless there's some magical hot sauce solution I've not seen, neither WHMCS nor Paypal offer any way for the PROVIDER to do this, only the client.

    >

    Paypal does.

    No longer with ND

  • HAHA

    Had this argument with a member here today who told me that every host he has been with cancelled subscriptions etc for them. I thought not..

  • RophRoph Member

    Perhaps a big red warning in account / service termination emails about cancelling paypal subscriptions?

  • Ash_HawkridgeAsh_Hawkridge Member
    edited April 2013

    @Jack said: NAME AND SHAME

    Im hoping they might see this and actually have the decency to apologize.

    @Roph said: Perhaps a big red warning in account / service termination emails about cancelling paypal subscriptions?

    We have this. Apparently people don't read, that must be our job too.

  • RalliasRallias Member, Provider

    @HalfEatenPie said: And this is why I'll never setup a paypal subscription and prefer to pay my bills manually every month.

    To be honest, paypal subscriptions are convienent. Except for when you have multiple... I think at one point I had 3 with one provider.

    @BradND said: Paypal does.

    Well, end game, WHMCS doesn't. When you're at the scale of 1500+ customers, with any given month up to 300-500 canceling for second or beyond month, constant service improvements, and the constant drone of support tickets, it becomes non-cost-effective to go thru, especially when only one person has access to the paypal account itself.

  • @Rallias said: To be honest, paypal subscriptions are convienent. Except for when you have multiple... I think at one point I had 3 with one provider.

    Its convenient but then when you cancel the service/forget and the money constantly drains out then that's where the problem is. I'd rather remove the entire risk of it all.

    Catalyst Host - Pie Approved!
  • Ash_HawkridgeAsh_Hawkridge Member
    edited April 2013

    @HalfEatenPie said: Its convenient but then when you cancel the service/forget and the money constantly drains out then that's where the problem is. I'd rather remove the entire risk of it all.

    Surely you get a payment receipt from PayPal when a subscription payment goes out? I know we do for our business account.

  • RalliasRallias Member, Provider

    @HalfEatenPie said: Its convenient but then when you cancel the service/forget and the money constantly drains out then that's where the problem is. I'd rather remove the entire risk of it all.

    THIS. I have 1 paypal subscription, it's to Put.io. It's a service I KNOW I'll use in the future and I'll LOVE in the future. But for many VPS providers, especially in the LEB world of deadpools ( @Liam We need a deadpool monthly ), you really shouldn't have a subscription.

  • @GetKVM_Ash said: Surely you get a payment receipt from PayPal when a subscription payment goes out? I know we do for our business account.

    Actually, I'm not sure because I've never even touched the subscription button. I'd actually be interested in this.

    @Rallias said: THIS. I have 1 paypal subscription, it's to Put.io. It's a service I KNOW I'll use in the future and I'll LOVE in the future. But for many VPS providers, especially in the LEB world of deadpools ( @Liam We need a deadpool monthly ), you really shouldn't have a subscription.

    What's put.io?

    Catalyst Host - Pie Approved!
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    I put this in my terms
    I send that specific info as an email after sign up
    I put the information in the main email that contains IP info etc so it cannot be missed.
    I have a knowledge base about it
    I have a question during sign up to say they understand it is their responsibility
    Yet this happens at least once p/month.

    I wont even communicate with them over it if the first I hear is a paypal dispute, service = terminated, escalate to claim, call paypal, "Hello this is a service" done.

    Very Very annoying, as Tim said, you can put a glass of water in front of someone, what makes you think they will drink it?

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • RalliasRallias Member, Provider

    @HalfEatenPie said: What's put.io?

    Basically a seedbox specifically for public trackers.

  • @Nekki said: No, you need to sort it yourself. If you forget to manage you own subs, it's your problem, not the service providers.

    Yes, it's buyer's responsibility. However, if you want to avoid these kind of situations, you need to cancel them yourself.

    Cheap VPS - VPSDime

  • @Rallias said: The thing is, unless there's some magical hot sauce solution I've not seen, neither WHMCS nor Paypal offer any way for the PROVIDER to do this, only the client.

    No joke please.

  • @GetKVM_Ash said: Surely you get a payment receipt from PayPal when a subscription payment goes out? I know we do for our business account.

    Of course you do.

    You sent an automatic payment
        Transaction ID: abc
    
    Dear xyz,
    
    You sent an automatic payment to Prometeus di Daniela Agro. Here are the details:
  • Ash_HawkridgeAsh_Hawkridge Member
    edited April 2013

    The thing is, even if we could cancel it, why would we? Its your PayPal account + your subscription.

    My bank doesn't cancel direct debits for me, whats the difference? Oh wait, its the internet, where the customer is always right and the ISP is always wrong :P

    @vedran

    So when people let them go for two or three month's and they say "Why have you taken xx out of my account" they were even been informed it was happening haha.

    Thank you :)

  • This is the reason why we don't accept subscriptions, because people are just retarded and start complaining about how you "stole" money from them.

  • @GetKVM_Ash said: So when people let them go for two or three month's and they say "Why have you taken xx out of my account" they were even been informed it was happening haha.

    Exactly. And also:

    To change or cancel your agreement with Prometeus di Daniela Agro, log in to your PayPal account, go to your Profile, and click My money. Update your agreement in the "My preapproved payments" section.

    >
    Yours sincerely,
    PayPal

    Some people just don't read I guess

  • TBH, it's not so much that they didn't cancel their subscription, it's that they didn't bother to contact us; we'll refund transactions that occurred because they forgot to cancel their subscription. I'm human too.

    Instead, they just decided HURRR DURR IM GOING TO DISPUTE IT AS UNAUTHORIZED.

  • If this happens the customer should talk to the host about refunding money instead of Paypal. Of course if the host refuses to refund the money the client is in the right to open a dispute

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    @gsrdgrdghd said: client is in the right to open a dispute

    Why, client was informed how these things work 4 times pre and post sale.

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • Anyone interested in some WHMCS module that'll cancel the paypal subscriptions when the product is terminated for $5 one time fee?

    Cheap VPS - VPSDime

  • I don't mind refunding subscription payments when we're notified straight away, but i have a problem when people like to leave it months and then expect us to refund all the payments and have our financial accounts changed for those previous months.

  • prometeusprometeus Member, Provider

    I discovered that I can cancel subscriptions manually from this page:
    Recurring payments dashboard

    I'm not sure when it was introduced and if it is available for all kind of accounts...

    IperWeb & Prometeus, Hosting Provider since 1997. iwStack cloud infrastructure
  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider

    I hate Paypal Subscriptions more than anything else in the hosting world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I've had nothing but issues with it and now we're finding more bugs in the system that I am not liking that could potentially cost us hundreds of dollars. I've disabled them from our WHMCS install while we investigate. :(

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • @serverian said: Anyone interested in some WHMCS module that'll cancel the paypal subscriptions when the product is terminated for $5 one time fee?

    Yes.

    @prometeus said: I discovered that I can cancel subscriptions manually from this page:

    Recurring payments dashboard

    I'm not sure when it was introduced and if it is available for all kind of accounts...

    We have this too, but it's difficult to find subscriptions. We have several hundred on there, and I'm sure you have way more than we do. Another thought is: we didn't create the subscription in the first place; it shouldn't be our ward to cancel them.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider
    edited April 2013

    @serverian said: Anyone interested in some WHMCS module that'll cancel the paypal subscriptions when the product is terminated for $5 one time fee?

    This is available for free, I don't think it's been updated in the recent updates but look for "PayPal Subscription Canceller".

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • @KuJoe said: This is available for free, I don't think it's been updated in the recent updates but look for "PayPal Subscription Canceller".

    I couldn't find a module for WHMCS

    Cheap VPS - VPSDime

  • prometeusprometeus Member, Provider

    @Damian said: We have this too, but it's difficult to find subscriptions. We have several hundred on there, and I'm sure you have way more than we do. Another thought is: we didn't create the subscription in the first place; it shouldn't be our ward to cancel them.

    we have not so many, 3-400 active I think. Forgotten payments cases aren't frequent BTW.

    IperWeb & Prometeus, Hosting Provider since 1997. iwStack cloud infrastructure
  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider

    @serverian said: I couldn't find a module for WHMCS

    I'll upload my hacked up one shortly. It fixes some bugs in the original but doesn't have the same functionality.

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • EpidriveEpidrive Member, Provider
    edited April 2013

    You can be an honest guy, refund him his money back, and contact him through email and tell him that he should cancel his paypal subscription, explain him . THAT'S IF YOUR HONEST ENOUGH TO DO IT :-)

    Think on his side too, it would be much easier to open a dispute than to contact the host, normally the host (more of the 'greedy' ones) will reason out that they only offer 15-30 money back guarantee, and that the transaction isn't covered anymore.

    Happened to me before as a client, just explaining :-)

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider
    edited April 2013

    This is fork of this. The only difference is that the checkboxes do not work since the bug in the original would randomly uncheck the boxes and turn the options off under certain conditions. I didn't go through all of the code, I just remove the if/else statements for the checkboxes and made them readonly.

    http://my.securedragon.net/paypalsubscriptioncanceller.zip

    EDIT: Fixed 2 more bugs and added MIT licensing to the file. Make sure your version is 1.1 or it will not work.

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • Looks like it'd work @KuJoe. Well, no need for a new one :)

    Cheap VPS - VPSDime

  • Happened to me this morning :(

    Discord: robert#8239

  • Recently I have noticed that some paypal transactions under a certain amount default to the subscription module on the client side. It has happened to me once and I immediately opened a ticket with the provider and had him cancel it. I do not know if this happened as part of the whole fiasco they recently had or not but I thought you all might like to know about it. If the provider sees this he can post more on this if he would like.

    I do not ever use subscriptions because my household budget is so low I may have to cancel before the next month comes along. Heck I can not even afford a yearly deal from most providers lol. It is just not feasible for me to use the subscription module.

    Catch me over at Primary DNS. If you want to chat I am done with this cesspool.

  • @AuroraZ said: Recently I have noticed that some paypal transactions under a certain amount default to the subscription module on the client side. It has happened to me once and I immediately opened a ticket with the provider and had him cancel it.

    This might not actually be a default to certain amount. Providers can specify if the subscription service is available, and providers can specify that all new sign-ups are subscription only.

  • @AuroraZ said: default to the subscription module on the client side. It has happened to me once and I immediately opened a ticket with the provider and had him cancel it.

    This is that drinking water moment, it's your paypal account, your subscription, why do you think the provider can help you on this?

    There is a little misunderstanding I see, I do have the ability to cancel subscriptions, and with thousands of them, and PayPal site moving at glacial speed, I really want to do this, NOT! You as a customer have far fewer, so most likely won't even need to scroll a page at PayPal, while I might scroll 5 pages just for Feb, and wait 1-3 minutes per page for PayPal to think about it.

    Hostigation High Resource Hosting - SolusVM KVM VPS / Proxmox OpenVZ VPS- Low Cost Comodo SSL Certificates
  • mikhomikho Member, Provider

    I see alot of anger from more then one provider in here, may I ask why you offer subcriptions at all?

    Some will probably reply that most customers can handle it and thats the reason to keep it.

    We should remind ourself that most people on the internet fon't know what to do with it.

    I can now be found at https://talk.lowendspirit.com
    or on twitter
    Come say HI! :)
  • @MikHo said: may I ask why you offer subcriptions at all?

    Customer demand for it is my biggest reason. A small percentage of clients are forgetful and would rather have some form of automatic payment to insure their service is not suspended.

    Hostigation High Resource Hosting - SolusVM KVM VPS / Proxmox OpenVZ VPS- Low Cost Comodo SSL Certificates
  • Can't paypal just get smart and make this available via the api?

  • mikhomikho Member, Provider

    @mitgib

    Thats what i thought aswell, so basicly it ends up to the customers cant remember to pay their bills and they cant remember to end paying them.

    Either way te provider looses.

    I can now be found at https://talk.lowendspirit.com
    or on twitter
    Come say HI! :)
  • @MikHo said: I see alot of anger from more then one provider in here, may I ask why you offer subcriptions at all?

    This:

    @miTgiB said: Customer demand for it is my biggest reason. A small percentage of clients are forgetful and would rather have some form of automatic payment to insure their service is not suspended.

    99% of subscriptions are created, get paid, and get cancelled without issue. It's just that 1% handled incorrectly....

  • @24khost said: Can't paypal just get smart and make this available via the api?

    I'm thinking it's WHMCS that needs the intelligence boost here

    Hostigation High Resource Hosting - SolusVM KVM VPS / Proxmox OpenVZ VPS- Low Cost Comodo SSL Certificates
  • @Damian said: This might not actually be a default to certain amount. Providers can specify if the subscription service is available, and providers can specify that all new sign-ups are subscription only.

    See I had no idea since I have never even looked into that kind of thing.

    @miTgiB said: This is that drinking water moment, it's your paypal account, your subscription, why do you think the provider can help you on this?

    I understand this now at that time I did not. I knew absolutely nothing about the system. The provider was nice enough to help me out this one time and that was end of it. There has been no further incident.

    I did not mean to say I side with anyone here because I do not. I just pointed out something that had happened to me. I am sorry I upset someone it was not my intention. I apologize to @miTgiB and I shall use this experience to remember to keep my mouth shut period and give my pension to anyone who asks.

    Catch me over at Primary DNS. If you want to chat I am done with this cesspool.

  • @AuroraZ said: I apologize to @miTgiB and I shall use this experience to remember to keep my mouth shut period

    No need to be sorry, I only asked a question of you to help you learn for yourself as the only dumb question is one never asked.

    Hostigation High Resource Hosting - SolusVM KVM VPS / Proxmox OpenVZ VPS- Low Cost Comodo SSL Certificates
  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    I'm with the providers on this. I get so mad when people call us thieves or something because the client forgot to cancel their own subscription which even if we could cancel it for them is such a pain in the ass time consuming endevour

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
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