Review of @Andre

mrnothersan · February 2013

Hello,

I felt @Andre needed a really good review, for his work that he's done for us. As you may know, I designed a new Bootstrap design for the PremiumVM website, but opinions were not great. I found a designer who offered to do it for a reasonable price, and then stopped communicating with me. I then found Andre, by a recommendation on here (by @SimpleNode).

I contacted him, he offered to do it cheaper so I took up his offer! The first thing that was designed was a logo for the website. He gave me plenty of mock-ups of the logo and asked me what I liked/didn't like about it. We then came to a conclusion that this would be the new full logo:

I then realized that I didn't like the tagline text, so he compiled a new logo pack for me, at no extra cost.

Onto the website, he convinced me not to go Bootstrap so I agreed. We communicated and he asked me lots of questions, I asked him questions and we came to a final design of PremiumVM.com

There were some short delays, which I was compensated massively for too!

I hope you guys like the new website, and I would strongly recommend that you contact @Andre if you're looking for a new website or design. AndreZadnik.com!

-Dominic

mrnothersan · February 2013

@Jack said: Goddamit Dominic.

Ninja'd.

jh · February 2013

Looks nice. Good work @andre

Andre · February 2013

Thanks a lot for the review Dominic. (:

Also, this isn't linking to PremiumVM.com, but the thread itself

@dominicl said: and we came to a final design of PremiumVM.com

Edit:
Thanks @jhadley!

mrnothersan · February 2013

@Andre said: Also, this isn't linking to PremiumVM.com, but the thread itself

Fixed.

MikeIn · February 2013

He really develops good looking Logos and more interestingly most/all of them looks so simple but awesome!

Regards.
Mike In

Wunderbar · February 2013

Design looks good.

HTML:

Tables
Internal CSS
No HTML5 doctype

WHY?

mrnothersan · February 2013

@MikeIn said: He really develops good looking Logos and more interestingly most/all of them looks so simple but awesome!

Certainly does Love his logos!

@Wunderbar said: Design looks good, HTML uses tables... WHY?

Why not?

Wunderbar · February 2013

@dominicl said: Why not?

Tables are for tabular data, not layout.

Intcs · February 2013

Nice job, I feel he is careful at choosing colors/design, which is good.

Andre · February 2013

@Wunderbar

Tables

For a quick and easy site, tables provide a dead simple alignment and layout.

They'll go where you want them to with no issues, and you don't see many browser issues.

Internal CSS

Why load it externally?
That's one more resource to load off the server.

HTML5 doctype

Unnecessary really.

Each to their own though.

@MikeIn Thanks for that, appreciated!
@Intcs Very careful indeed, I do spend a fair amount of time selecting a color pallet and arranging the content. Sometimes I can get overly obsessive with it (:

Wunderbar · February 2013

@Andre said: For a quick and easy site, tables provide a dead simple alignment and layout.

They'll go where you want them to with no issues, and you don't see many browser issues.

Doing it with div's and CSS doesn't take any longer and it's the correct way to do it.

@Andre said: Why load it externally?

That's one more resource to load off the server.

External CSS is only loaded once, now it's loaded every time you go to a different (unique) page.

@Andre said: HTML5 doctype

Unnecessary really.

Not really necessary but best practice.

gubbyte · February 2013

why is everyone crying about someone's coding style

Andre · February 2013

@gubbyte I knew that at least one person would dislike the design or the code and would feel the need to express their wonderful views that no one really cares about

I'm generally okay to accept constructive criticism, but not from these kids on here, shouting "WHY?" and being dickish.

Ishaq · February 2013

You get company reviews, product reviews, but you don't normally get people reviews!

However, Andre is trustable and seems great to deal with.

Wunderbar · February 2013

@Andre said: I'm generally okay to accept constructive criticism, but not from these kids on here, shouting "WHY?" and being dickish.

Naming some bad practices that you can avoid in the future is being 'dickish'? I'm sorry you perceived it this way but I was trying to help.

Nekki · February 2013

@gubbyte said: why is everyone crying about someone's coding style

Coding style is important. Depending on what you're trying to do, a layout made up of tables can cause serious usability problems for screen reading software and text-only browsers.

gubbyte · February 2013

@Nekki said: text-only browsers

Only autists and/or hipsters use those, so it doesn't matter either way

Andre · February 2013

@Wunderbar if you truly did want to help, then your original comment really wouldn't have been 3 dot points and 'WHY?'...

@gubbyte
@Nekki is correct with the fact that a screen reader or text only browser won't see the site correctly, but that's not due to tables.. That'd be due to the lack of image alt tags.

Nekki · February 2013

@gubbyte said: Only autists and/or hipsters use those, so it doesn't matter either way

Autists and hipsters have money too, I'd rather make sure both can spend it with me ;-)

ShardHostSarah · February 2013

@Andre said: For a quick and easy site, tables provide a dead simple alignment and layout.

They'll go where you want them to with no issues, and you don't see many browser issues.

The site design looks quite nice; however laying things out using tables went out about 10 years ago and even then it was bad practice. Nested tables like this for layout cause significant issues for users who use screen-readers. As this is a website in UK, the owner/operator has a legal requirement to make it accessible.

gubbyte · February 2013

What's a "screen reader"? Is this some hipster technology I've never heard about?

drazilox · February 2013

I do have to point out that for real, I feel bad when browsing a page that uses tables because that's just wrong. Divs are the way to go.

gubbyte · February 2013

@drazilox said: I do have to point out that for real, I feel bad when browsing a page that uses tables because that's just wrong. Divs are the way to go.

Then don't look at the page source, damn.

curtisg · February 2013

@Jack said: Goddamit Dominic.

<.img src="http://premiumvm.com/img/pvm_LET_threadlogo.png" />

remove . after <

OR just do the easy way
![alt text](image url)

ShardHostSarah · February 2013

@gubbyte said: gubbyte 4:24PM Flag

Member
What's a "screen reader"? Is this some hipster technology I've never heard about?

Software used by those who are blind or who have impaired vision. Although, you know it wasn't that difficult to find out

Maounique · February 2013

@gubbyte said: What's a "screen reader"? Is this some hipster technology I've never heard about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_reader

Corey · February 2013

That looks pretty good. Will consider @Andre for future design.

Intcs · February 2013

So to sum that up, the advice of most who are page designers themselves, seems to be just in taking a more standardized approach later on, in pages side, right?

DewlanceVPS · February 2013

Very clean and nice design.

gj

alex · February 2013

it's terrible tbh, I'd expect designing and coding it took something between 5-15 mins

mrnothersan · February 2013

@alex said: it's terrible tbh, I'd expect designing and coding it took something between 5-15 mins

Thank you

Mitchell · February 2013

2001 called, they want their tables back

Tip: http://960.gs

Infinity · February 2013

Awesome stuff @Andre, just one suggestion is to work on the nav bar links a bit, I guess styling them up with a box or something. I dunno. Anyway, great work.

Davidx · February 2013

@Andre said: For a quick and easy site, tables provide a dead simple alignment and layout.

Designing ANY site with tables is bad practice period.. HTML is not for looks it's the barebones, CSS is for styling.

Seems like something off a photoshop idea. Rather plain, feel isn't consistent across pages.

KernelSanders · February 2013

Tables = no. Floats are so easy to use too

drazilox · February 2013

@kernelsanders, what are these "floats" you're speaking of? You mean divs with floats?

gubbyte · February 2013

@drazilox said: @kernelsanders, what are these "floats" you're speaking of? You mean divs with floats?

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/CSS/float

drazilox · February 2013

@gubbyte, yeah, but you can't just use "floats", you need to specify a float on an element, and usually when designing, that element is div.

gubbyte · February 2013

orly

<style type="text/css">
floatright { float: right; }
</style>
<floatright>hello</floatright>

KernelSanders · February 2013

Uhh typically anyone with half a brain knows what you mean when someone says "floats"...

`#container {
width:500px;
}

div1 {

float:left;
width:250px;
}

div2 {

float:right;
width:250px;
}`

Then clear:both;

Sorry if formatting sucks, I'm on my phone.

And as @gubbyte said. Welcome to html5.

drazilox · February 2013

@gubbyte, yeah I guess that would work. Even though it's not valid.

@kernelsanders, you're absolutely right. I was just being a smartass.

KernelSanders · February 2013

I figured as much :P No big deal, we're all that way at some point

gnugeek · February 2013

It's sad to see how dominici tried to give Andre some credit for his work but Andre ruined it with his comments.

VPNsh · February 2013

I really like the work you've done on logos @Andre and have been considering coming to you for a while now, in regards to a logo I'll be needing soon.

The site design looks pretty nice too.. and although I partially agree with your comment regarding table-based design, in the fact that it's quick and easy to implement, it really is not good for anything more than a mockup, as others have mentioned, it isn't good practice at all for a number of reasons.

The killer for me though is the statement about external CSS, and that there is no point loading it externally.

As far as I'm concerned with design, I try to keep to the following rules:

HTML - Content
CSS - Separate file, styling
JavaScript - Separate file, functionality

Good work on the actual design though, it does look nice.

Andre · February 2013

Thank you @liamwithers.

It may not be the best of practices, but the site loads correctly in IE5.5 and above, with only two issues; the header logo has a border, and the CTA buttons have alpha transparency (PNG24).

I can understand the use of external CSS, but I didn't see the point if there's really only 5 shared classes per page.

Nekki · February 2013

@Andre tables can cause issues with screen readers, depending on how the code flows versus the way the content flows - if the table layout breaks the logical flow, then it can render the site unusable. More of a general observation than any issue with your code (as I haven't looked at it).

Andre · February 2013

@Nekki
The site is structured fine in this matter - a screen reader is still able to read it, the tables flow logically (it reads through, top left-right, next row, same thing).
The only issue I see, and as I stated previously is the lack of alt tags, meaning all images will not be read.

Jacob · February 2013

Anyone who is good with php / html / ajax drop me a msg.

MikeIn · February 2013

An additional Question,

Can any one tell me, whether the templates (in general) comes with a Admin Panel or thing as such so as to do things like 1 click image changer or similar things/stuffs.

Or they are mostly Manual (To be Coded for changes).

Regards,
Mike In

gubbyte · February 2013

@MikeIn said: Can any one tell me, whether the templates (in general) comes with a Admin Panel or thing as such so as to do things like 1 click image changer or similar things/stuffs.

You'll have a hard time finding someone who sells templates with that.

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