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[OpenVZ] Simfs vs Ploop

[OpenVZ] Simfs vs Ploop

jmginerjmginer Member, Provider

Any provider is migrating to ploop?
Any important know issue?
Performance in Ploop is the same/better/poor than Simfs?
Some consideration to taka care in migration?

Thanks!

OpenVZ filesystem
  1. Better security46 votes
    1. Simfs
      26.09%
    2. Ploop
      73.91%
  2. Better performance46 votes
    1. Simfs
      43.48%
    2. Ploop
      56.52%
  3. Simple management46 votes
    1. Simfs
      60.87%
    2. Ploop
      39.13%
  4. What I prefer is46 votes
    1. Simfs
      50.00%
    2. Ploop
      50.00%
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Comments

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider
    edited November 2014

    Ploop has all of the advantages over simfs except for that little problem of eating up more disk space than it uses and easily making a VPS unusable and unrecoverable under certain conditions (mostly when a server is not gracefully shutdown like a power loss, kernel panic, DOS, etc...).

    The OpenVZ devs say they won't fix the corruption issue since it's not a bug so I don't plan on using ploop with hardware RAID controllers. There's also a lot of complaints of ploop VPSs taking up more disk space than required (like a VPS with a 10GB hard drive using up 16GB of disk space on the node for example).

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
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  • In a perfect world using ploop would be nice...

  • key900key900 Member, Provider

    @KuJoe said: Ploop has all of the advantages over simfs except for that little problem of eating up more disk space than it uses and easily making a VPS unusable and unrecoverable under certain conditions (mostly when a server is not gracefully shutdown like a power loss, kernel panic, DOS, etc...).

    The OpenVZ devs say they won't fix the corruption issue since it's not a bug so I don't plan on using ploop with hardware RAID controllers. There's also a lot of complaints of ploop VPSs taking up more disk space than required (like a VPS with a 10GB hard drive using up 16GB of disk space on the node for example).

    I believe all openVZ user began forced to use ploop!

    *LetBox.Com Make it Simple!.
  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider

    key900 said: I believe all openVZ user began forced to use ploop!

    Not true at all.

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
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  • jmginerjmginer Member, Provider

    For me, a important thing that is not present in Ploop is the bind mounts options. I use it to assign a second disk unit for managed VPSs to host the cpbackup files in a different physical disk.

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  • KuJoe said: There's also a lot of complaints of ploop VPSs taking up more disk space than required

    Where did you see those complaints? This I'm curious about.

    KuJoe said: easily making a VPS unusable and unrecoverable under certain conditions (mostly when a server is not gracefully shutdown like a power loss, kernel panic, DOS, etc...).

    Really, this is true of any block device in those situations.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider

    @Microlinux said:

    There are a few bug reports in OpenVZ's Bugzilla and some conversations on vpsBoard and WHT regarding ploop using more disk space than it should and compacting or resizing doesn't help.

    As for the corruption, unlike normal hard drives where you can repair it or recover some data after reboot, ploop is 100% unrecoverable.

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  • Why did they chose that name? Why!?

    urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ploop

    Thanked by 1linuxthefish
  • In Russian it may mean something else, maybe like reliable or fast ;)

  • ProfforgProfforg Member
    edited November 2014

    said: Any provider is migrating to ploop? Any important know issue? Performance in Ploop is the same/better/poor than Simfs? Some consideration to taka care in migration?

    I would use simfs over ploop because simfs looks much faster on my tests and it make it easy to have test containers with overusage of drive space.

    MarkTurner said: In Russian it may mean something else, maybe like reliable or fast ;)

    It means nothing.. There are no such word.

    Freelance System Administrator, available for hire. Experienced in: PHP, MySQL, WordPress, Nginx, DDoS-protection, high-performance solutions.

  • @Profforg - I was being facetious

  • MarkTurner said: @Profforg - I was being facetious

    Okay..

    Freelance System Administrator, available for hire. Experienced in: PHP, MySQL, WordPress, Nginx, DDoS-protection, high-performance solutions.

  • jmginerjmginer Member, Provider

    Some hoster providing OVZ servers with ploop?

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  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider
    edited December 2014

    @jmginer said: Some hoster providing OVZ servers with ploop?

    All of the ones that I know of that did offer ploop have all converted back to simfs due to severe loss of client's data and outages associated with trying to fix ploop files.

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
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  • The dd test seems f**ked with ploop:

    # dd if=/dev/zero of=test bs=64k count=16k conv=fdatasync; rm -f test
    16384+0 records in
    16384+0 records out
    1073741824 bytes (1.1 GB) copied, 0.91991 s, 1.2 GB/s
    

    Very misleading.

    Thanked by 1yuri
  • @jmginer said: Some hoster providing OVZ servers with ploop?

    GVH do on all my vps with them, and I use ploop for a single openvz container with cpanel.

  • All I know is that in the stable release of SNMP, Simfs detection is broken.

  • coolicecoolice Member
    edited December 2014

    @KuJoe said:

    I read the hole mentioned bug incident https://bugzilla.openvz.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3030

    It appear when data write back i used and they take several measures to prevent it.

    1 Add a warning in 1.12 if using data writeback

    2

    * diff-ploop-update-i_size-on-preallocation
    Added to 2.6.32-042stab094_2
    
    ploop: update i_size on preallocation
    
    The patch removes FALLOC_FL_KEEP_SIZE from the flags which direct_io module
    uses to preallocate disk space. The change is harmless, but decreases the
    chances of irrecoverable ploop images significantly.
    
    https://bugzilla.openvz.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3030 

    3 Not sure if the last i added but they mentioned

    adding an option to ploop-fsck to fix "Data cluster xxx beyond EOF" by nullifying corrseponding slots of BAT. This will lead to lost data, of course, but it may be much better than nothing -- currently there is no way to mount such images at all. 

    OpenVz Node + KernelCare top - 22:22:57 up 500 days, 1:28, 1 user, load average: 2.59, 2.73, 3.24

  • It's a lil old topic, but just wondering if the "disadvantages" mentioned here about Ploop have changed or situation is still the same?

    I am just wondering since Ploop is better in performance. (at least per this poll)

  • Shoaib_AShoaib_A Member
    edited January 2015

    @Umair said: It's a lil old topic, but just wondering if the "disadvantages" mentioned here about Ploop have changed or situation is still the same?

    I am just wondering since Ploop is better in performance. (at least per this poll)

    Ploop is better only in terms of isolation & security it provides compared to simfs. But since you are running your own node for hosting guest VMs, you don't need this feature. Other than that the situation is same what it was at time of creation of this thread

    Thanked by 1Umair
  • Thanks @fametel

  • UmairUmair Member
    edited February 2015

    Can anyone here who is using OpenVZ with SolusVM share their

    ve-vswap-solus.conf-sample and vz.conf

    Are you using the default values or have changed something in there. (PS. I am on simfs)

    Thanks

  • yuriyuri Member

    @Umair said: I am just wondering since Ploop is better in performance. (at least per this poll)

    This is a wrong information due misunderstand by a lot of people that post without know or test the tecnologies.

    The PLOOP will be always slowest because the additional layers that it adds increases the IO overhead. While the SIMFS is only a chrooted bind mount with additional quotas support, their performance is pratically the same of bare metal.

    If you do any test with it and with any tools you will notice that the IOPS and IORate drops slight with PLOOP (the same happens when you use a LVM or a ZVOL).

    The only performance benefit is when the PLOOP runs over a NFS, because it use a one big file instead a lot of little files over a NFS but it also increases the crashes risk a lot due the network instabilities can damage the PLOOP file and it file system. So is more beneficial to use SIMFS over NFS and make tweaks (Ex.: FSC) to increate little files performance without add more crashes risks.

    @Shoaib_A said: Ploop is better only in terms of isolation & security it provides compared to simfs. But since you are running your own node for hosting guest VMs, you don't need this feature. Other than that the situation is same what it was at time of creation of this thread

    The other PLOOP benefit is the snapshot support that can help a lot the backup process, and is a great rollback tool.

    @Umair said: Can anyone here who is using OpenVZ with SolusVM share their

    ve-vswap-solus.conf-sample and vz.conf

    Are you using the default values or have changed something in there. (PS. I am on simfs)

    Thanks

    I change the restart option to stop instead of suspend (this helps when a need to reboot all containers due some glibc like updates) and I enable all iptables functions.

  • @Silvenga said: All I know is that in the stable release of SNMP, Simfs detection is broken.

    Actually it works fine, it's the Ubuntu (possibly others?) package that it's broken in, Compiled 5.73 from source and SimFS detection is working.

    Thanked by 1Silvenga
  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider

    @dragon2611 You're replying to a post from 2014. :P

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  • @KuJoe said: dragon2611 You're replying to a post from 2014. :P

    Opps it was showing up, probably because of @yuri 's comment above didn't notice the original posting date.

    Thanked by 1KuJoe
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