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Getting an Autonomous System
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Getting an Autonomous System

GunterGunter Member
edited March 2014 in General

I'm curious, how exactly does someone get a hold of an Autonomous System? Since I'd like to get one if possible in the future.

What's the minimum allocation? What's the process? Do you need a colocation or any certain type of service? Cost? How do you assign an AS to a network?

Comments

  • Justification is to be multihomed - get two transit agreements, forward to ARIN, pay them $500 (I think) and they'll review your application for an ASN

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Provider

    Are you a member of any RIR?

    Thats the first step and most of the cost (excluding IP costs).

    X4B - DDoS Protection: Affordable Anycast DDoS mitigation with PoPs in Europe, Asia, North and South America.
    Latest Offer: Brazil Launch 2020 Offer
  • InfinityInfinity Member, Provider

    @MarkTurner said:
    Justification is to be multihomed - get two transit agreements, forward to ARIN, pay them $500 (I think) and they'll review your application for an ASN

    ARIN? You are from the UK. :-)

    You really need to refer to your RIR, it varies. I would guess yours might be APNIC since you are in Asia?

    Cablestreet - London based ISP - Managed Solutions, Carrier Services, Colocation, Dedicated Servers, VMs, and more..

  • GunterGunter Member
    edited March 2014

    Infinity said: APNIC since you are in Asia

    I'm not really sure who you're referring to.

    If you're referring to me, I operate multiple international subsidaries and I'm not really sure which RIR I need to refer to. I imagine I would need to refer to each RIR seperately depending on the server location. If it is me, what gave you the idea that I'm from Asia?

  • You need to apply for IPs within the region you are operating. So if you have a subsidiary in Europe then RIPE, if you have another subsidiary in the US then you have apply for IPs for NA from them, same with APNIC. You can't use IPs from one region in another region any more.

    AS numbers generally should be applied for in your home country OR in the region where you can show multiple transit agreements at the same location.

    Remember the justification for an AS # is that you are multi-homing.

  • dnwkdnwk Member

    If you don't have an AS number, how do you get a transit agreement?

    Thanked by 1Gunter

    Designers: www.linkun.info

  • You go to two separate transit providers order IP transit service no BGP just static route, ask each for /24. Then once they are delivered, apply to ARIN for AS # and IP space. They'll allocate them, you hand back your two /24's to your transit providers and tell them to reconfigure for BGP using your new AS #.

    Thanked by 1Gunter
  • rds100rds100 Member
    edited March 2014

    In the request form must be given the contact details (email) of at least two providers, who are willing to do BGP sessions with you when you get the AS. The practice shows that RIPE never actually contacts those two providers to check if it is true.

    With 32 bit AS numbers there are so many available that it is practicly impossible that they would run out some day. So the RIRs don't care too much if you get an AS even if you are not multihomed.

    -

  • @rds100 - thats actually not true, one of our customers who did this recently had to provide a copy of his invoice from us and also confirmation of service delivery

  • InfinityInfinity Member, Provider

    @darknyan said:

    You said you were in China somewhere or maybe I'm blind. It would make sense to have it in your local RIR, if you go with RIPE for example you need to be a member and you get an AS along with some IP's but they can only be used in Middle East and Europe I beliveve. It's very costly, but you can get a referee RIPE member to get you just the AS and get your IP elsewhere.

    Where are your servers going to be? If US then ARIN would probably make sense

    Cablestreet - London based ISP - Managed Solutions, Carrier Services, Colocation, Dedicated Servers, VMs, and more..

  • @MarkTurner that's something new then, we are a LIR since the year 2000 and we've never seen such a check.

    -

  • @rds100 - things are changing as resources are running out. I've seen 2-3 verifications from RIPE and ARIN. APNIC and AFRINIC don't seem to care, just fill in the paperwork, pay the money and off you go.

  • @MarkTurner maybe now that RIPE has much less work to do regarding IP assignments, they have too much free time to wast on non-essential things :)

    And since there are as much AS numbers possible as there are IPv4 address (around 4 billion), i don't think anyone should care too much about a wasted ASN here and there.

    -

  • @rds100 - Jobs for the boys (and girls). RIPE is a typical bureaucratic European organisation.

    Thanked by 2rds100 Gunter
  • AlexanderMAlexanderM Top Provider

    Arin is $550 for an AS and not $500, fyi

    HostUS | OpenVZ & KVM VPS in 10 worldwide locations with our own Breeze Panel!
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  • dnwkdnwk Member

    @AlexanderM said:
    Arin is $550 for an AS and not $500, fyi

    $550 one time?

    Designers: www.linkun.info

  • RalliasRallias Member, Provider

    dnwk said: $550 one time?

    Annually.

  • qpsqps Member, Provider

    Rallias said: Annually.

    $550 setup plus $100/year

    https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html#asns

    QuickPacket - Charlotte, Los Angeles, Chicago, Manchester UK

  • What's the cost of a /24?

  • InfinityInfinity Member, Provider

    @darknyan said:
    What's the cost of a /24?

    Depends what RIR and who with. No real fixed price because you won't find the direct RIR selling it only ISP and other companies who are members and have larger blocks to split up sell it.

    Cablestreet - London based ISP - Managed Solutions, Carrier Services, Colocation, Dedicated Servers, VMs, and more..

  • @Infinity said:
    You said you were in China somewhere or maybe I'm blind.

    I'm just here for business on behalf of my national government, and to visit some family members since they were nice enough to intergrate it with my vacation.

    Thanked by 1Infinity
  • GunterGunter Member
    edited March 2014

    Depends what RIR and who with. No real fixed price because you won't find the direct RIR selling it only ISP and other companies who are members and have larger blocks to split up sell it.

    Out of curiosity, does ColoCrossing sell IPs? Who sells the cheapest IPs in the world, or on record at least?

  • InfinityInfinity Member, Provider

    @darknyan said:
    Out of curiosity, does ColoCrossing sell IPs? Who sells the cheapest IPs in the world, or on record at least?

    No, they hoard them. ;p

    On record they don't unless you have a CC service but I'm sure might rent some, doubt their massive allocations are all being used.

    Cablestreet - London based ISP - Managed Solutions, Carrier Services, Colocation, Dedicated Servers, VMs, and more..

  • @darknyan said:
    Who sells the cheapest IPs in the world, or on record at least?

    Free from some ISPs/telecoms. Probably won't find that at datacenter these days, though.

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Provider

    MarkTurner said: You can't use IPs from one region in another region any more.

    Not true. Furthermore it would be next to impossible to do (think anycast).

    You should be a member of the RIR handling the region your company (the one becoming a member and getting access to the resources) is registered.

    X4B - DDoS Protection: Affordable Anycast DDoS mitigation with PoPs in Europe, Asia, North and South America.
    Latest Offer: Brazil Launch 2020 Offer
  • @Splitice - Anycast is a reasonable use for cross-RIR usages but other than that is COMPLETELY prohibited.

    You are correct, with respect to ARIN's handling of requests which span regions:

    • If an organization requests resources for use outside of the
      ARIN region, we would deny the request and refer them to the
      appropriate RIR.

    • If an organization requests space for both in region and out
      of region use, we will generally only allow them to obtain
      the space for the portion of request that will be used in
      the region, based on utilization of existing blocks in the
      region.

    • We will not count space issued by another RIR as justification
      for an initial allocation request from ARIN.

    Clearly, issuance of address space across regions is an issue which
    is becoming more interesting in recent years. We have noted this in
    past Policy Experience Reports, and hope to discuss it more at the
    upcoming ARIN 31 meeting, so that the community can see if any policy
    changes are appropriate or would simplify processing of these requests.

    Thanks!
    /John

    John Curran
    President and CEO
    ARIN

  • SpiritSpirit Disabled
    edited March 2014

    I know that we discussed about this already however I am still not completely convienced that this is actually prohibited for allocated IPs and it looks to me more like newish ARIN attempt, to keep with new requirement newly requested IPs inside region, not enforcable policy for already allocated IP subnets. Maybe they still work on that...

    FDC in their Czech Republic DC still user ARIN IPs http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-50-7-192-0-1/pft, so does Choopa in Japan http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-108-61-200-0-1/pft or Netherland http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-173-199-64-0-2/pft, OVH some RIPE subnets in Canada, and so on...

    The RIPE Network Management Database contains information about IP address
    space allocations and assignments. This information also indicates the country
    where resources were first allocated or assigned. However it is not intended
    that the data be considered as an authoritative statement of the location
    where any specific resource may currently be in use.

    For instance, as the Internet is global, it is easy for users to either
    intentionally or unintentionally use IP addresses that have been assigned to
    a company conducting business in another region. For example, a user in Italy
    may be receiving ISP service from a company who gets a link to Japan via
    a satellite company run out of the US. Which company has the space registered
    depends on their business and networking arrangements.

    ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/_README

    btw. I saw the same response from J. Curran here: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/nanog/users/161490

  • MarkTurnerMarkTurner Member
    edited March 2014

    @Spirit - With ARIN you have to sign a declaration for each allocation and that is to confirm that everything you wrote is true, including the answer to this questions:

    Please reply and verify that you will be using the requested number resources within

    the ARIN region and announcing all routing prefixes of the requested space

    I received this on Thursday so its pretty fresh

  • SpiritSpirit Disabled
    edited March 2014

    For new allocations request or for every already assigned subnet from past?

  • We have services pre-ARIN (Internic) for some parts of the business but they keep forcing the new service agreements.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Member
    edited March 2014

    For me it costs 75 Eur to get an AS along with a /24.

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    Spirit said: For new allocations request or for every already assigned subnet from past?

    This is a rather new rule, in the past you could use outside easily as you pointed out.

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