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Advice for migrating from VPS to Dedicated Server without control panel and from scratch.
Dedicadude
Member
Hi there. I'm new here, it's my first post so I beg your pardon.
Previously, I have an acceptable knowledge on managing multiple VPS using cPanel/WHM on CloudLinux and KernelCare. I use them to host my DNS, main site, personal projects, and resell some shared hosting packages. I usually maintain the LAMP stack using CloudLinux's built-in PHP Selector (to replace cPanel's EasyApache). Managing sub-accounts are rather easy and I rarely mess with the terminal except for setting up some gateways, initial IPv6 configurations, and other minor security tweaks. So, in short, using GUI is how I normally do my stuff.
Lately, I'm planning to migrate to a dedicated server and it is going to be my first attempt. However, it is quite costly because not just the hardware, even the software licenses are quite expensive (almost twice the price). I've done my research and I'm looking at this E5-2670, 240GB SSD, 1GBps port, 100TB transfer @ $59/month based in US (although I'm from Asia and the average ping is 250-300ms because it's cheaper). I know some open source control panels but I haven't tried any of them before. I'm just watching some YouTube reviews here and there.
I understand using cPanel/WHM is my best bet here but I don't want to spend more since my budget is less than $90/month. $60 is fine since the balance can be used on some ads or marketing campaigns.
I'd like to use Ubuntu 18.04, Pure Nginx (just because it seems cooler than Apache), MariaDB 10.3, PHP 7.2 as my webserver. I wonder what else should I prepare in order to get a fully working server. For example, should I host my own DNS (BIND or PowerDNS) here or separate $5 boxes (just because of standard and redundancy) or maybe using a child name server on my domain registrar? How about email server? IMAP/POP3? Dovecot? sFTP server? What should I do for the backup storage plan, do I put it here or remotely? How about SSL certificates - should I get multi-domain or wildcard IP or something like that or just use Let's Encrypt? Is it worth to setup everything manually just to save cost or is it tedious that paying such extra will save me more time in terms of maintenance? I don't plan to resell but rather maintain around 30-50 wordpress/codeigniter/laravel websites, some forums and ecommerce with little-to-moderate traffics.
I think getting a dedicated server is somewhat overkill, what else can I host on it other than a webserver? Perhaps VPN? Shoutcast? Anything else (which is not illegal)? Right now, I'm just doing this $5 Linode + $5.50 Serverpilot "cloud setup" and it seems a much easier way to manage my projects without needing to have some advanced technical knowledge - but less powerful. Also, the reason for migrating to a dedicated server is also for learning purposes, so I will not hire a system admin or go for a managed plan (just for the record)... Should I get a $49-52 E3-1230V3 instead (and save $10 more)?
Can someone enlighten me? I need a machine setup that is worth my money and time. My data transfer would not reach 1-2TB for the first 6 months. At this point when I read back what I wrote it looks so difficult and I don't even know if I'm ready for a dedicated server or not. Any ideas? Sorry for the long post. There are so many professionals here. I've read some of the newest threads and most of the replies are very grand-master-level-alike. Oh yea, I'm not shy to say I'll be doing all as a one-man-show (not reselling tho) too lazy to handle clients. Thank you!!!
Comments
With such amount of sites, I would stay with cPanel. Get the dedi and put cPanel inside a VM using Proxmox. You will have cheaper licenses and some space to test and learn on other VMs without increasing your costs.
QuickPacket @qps, GoMach5 @gm5 and IOFlood @funkywizard can help you with something below $60. I'm sure.
Why are you moving to a dedicated server?
@imok Thank you for the suggestions. I'll look into it.
@deank Most probably to extend my Linux server administration skills. I'm also curious about new technology. It's more of a hobby for now. I once tried to resell shared hosting packages on my VPS but then realized it's not possible without extensive marketing campaigns (AdWords, Facebook Ads, BuySellAds, viral marketing, you name it) due to competition and saturated market for my previous niche. I ended up closing only 8 clients x $2/month each but had to pay a whooping $95/month VPS + software licenses setup. I closed down after 11 months of operation (just a shy of 1 month from my initial exit plan). I'm more of a programmer rather than sysadmin/marketing guy... For me, creating SaaS projects are more viable/feasible at this period hence the dedicated server jump.
Edit: If someone is curious my previous setup was:
DO $5 (ns1)
Vultr $5 (ns2)
LeaseWeb SG $32 (main vps)
cPanel/WHM $14.95
Cloud Linux $11.95
Softaculous $1.50
Kernel Care $2.95
WHMCS $18.95
Obviously my first advice is to setup a VM on your desktop (or a spare machine if you happen to have one around) and to research, learn, experiment for a while.
Some practical advice off the top of my head
Don't do your own email and DNS in the beginning. Those are complex fields in their own rights and to do it properly will make your learning curve longer and steeper.
Don't use anything but mainstream stuff. Use debian or Centos as OS and not some distro that might look cooler. Reason: You'll run into many many small problems and issues on your way and you want to have as much advice available on the internet as possible.
Maybe wait with that dedi and instead find a good provider offering both dedis and VPSs. For learning - and you WILL have a lot to learn - a VPS is just as good and a lot cheaper. Sidenote: A KVM VPS is strongly preferable for your purposes than an OpenVZ.
From the money saved you'll be able to buy a decent DNS and email service. And hey, probably a decent VPS (say 2 or 3 vCores, 2 GB RAM, 25+GB disk) will be more than enough for your needs anyway. I guess for half of your budget (~ 35$) you should get a really nice starting point (VPS + 3rd party DNS,email service).
You can have:
2x cPanel DNS Only $24/y
Softaculous $12/y
cPanel license $13.95/m
Server: $30/m
Blesta $140 (one time)
$700 per year in total. Instead of $110.
Not sure if Kernel Care and CloudLinux is needed for such amount of clients.
This is my 2 cents:
I strongly agree with @imok's suggestion to split your dedicated server into multiple virtual machines. The lower licensing costs will easily be worth the extra effort to configure VMs and you have the flexibility to deploy extra VMs as needed (for learning purposes or to divide duties among multiple virtual servers).
For your purposes I personally feel that renting a dedicated server is definitely not needed. However, it's undeniably a great way to learn server management and administration skills. The initial configuration of setting up GUI's to manage your applications (cPanel, Proxmox, etc) will probably take more effort than you expect. There is a steep learning curve to mastering server administration. If you run into problems it could easily take hours/days to get things working. As you acquire experience you'll develop the skill and confidence to troubleshoot problems more quickly.
Hosting your own DNS servers is easy but I would suggest initially starting off with external DNS servers (from your registrar or free services) since DNS is critical for proper operation and I think you'll have enough things to manage while you initially deploy the server and get all the LAMP stuff configured.
You mentioned a backup plan... this is extremely important! If you are renting your own server then hardware failures are a fact of life and it's better to be prepared with offsite backups. If the dedicated server is going to be your active machine then make sure you have a plan to recover any important data (and configuration settings) even if the entire server was suddenly destroyed.
Regarding certificates, definitely stick with Let's Encrypt unless you have a specific requirement that they can't meet.
Using a dedicated server could be a great learning experience for you. If that is your goal then by all means go for it! However, be prepared to troubleshoot problems and spend a lot of extra time learning the ins and outs of server management since you now have to manage more layers of technology.
@jsg Excellent piece of advice. The reason I plan to get a fully working setup is to make sure my projects can go live so I can work on the SEO part slowly as time passing by. I've been playing around VPS for over 2 years now and I thought I'm ready to make that "jump" but I'm still not that confident. I lost about $1-2k but I don't want to keep whining about it, I'll just accept that as a "study fee" investment. I do agree that DNS/Email are complex fields. Can you tell me what do you mean by "mainstream stuff" - did you mean CloudLinux+KernelCare? You're on point there. I think those are just marketing gimmicks but I do think those software helped me a lot in managing my previous VPS with ease.
@imok Yes, I totally agree with you. It was more of a bad "business plan". I started off being too arrogant. I got myself a high-end VPS with fancy software (for marketing purpose). Even now, I think moving to a dedicated server is way overkill but I gotta start somewhere. I will not invest on Asia server because they are too costly. I'll try to start of with US servers to avoid huge lost in the future.
@goinsj2010 Your kind and positive words are extremely helpful. You know, it gave me a little shot of self-esteem boost. I'm also surprised LEB community are very polite unlike some other forums replied with such a negative tone that make me feel so down and not wanting to continue my dream. You know I failed 5 times and I'm still not giving up. I keep coming back thinking what went wrong and trying to fix my mistakes.
I appreciate all the comments.
@goinsj2010
Uhm, why would it better to make an investment in learning how to setup and configure and administer those panels (which make or keep users dumb) - instead of - putting roughly the same investment into learning how to configure and administrate an OS, a web server, a DB and some stuff around it (e.g. PHP)?
Following your advice, @Dedicadude will largely STAY on his level and be depending on panel crap but, hurray, he will be able to setup and run his own panel crap.
As for dedi vs. VPS: Besides panel crap the major difference probably comes down to having to (occasionally) deal with the servers IPMI. As for everything else, he will be able to apply his new knowledge (linux, Ngninx, etc) on both dedis and VPSs without any significant difference.
@Dedicadude, I strongly advise against goinsj2010's route! You'll be way better off investing in learning the real thing and getting independent from panel crap.
No, I mean a MAJOR linux distro like debian or Centos rather than e.g. Void or slackware. Or with http servers I mean Nginx or Apache rather than Cherokee or H2O.
The latter, well noted, are interesting and valuable too - but your point is about learning and training and for that you want MANY and LARGE and rich (in content and advice) communities resources. Those almost invariably come with the big players.
Just google for an OS problem and you'll see that for e.g. debian or Centos you'll find many, many answers and resources but for less mainstream distros you will find less support, especially the kind a newbie/student needs.
Or google for some http server problem and you'll see that for Nginx you'll find many more places and many more answers than for example for Cherokee.
The probably most important advice I have to give however is this: Get rid of them panels! Just think how many books on Linux or databases etc. you could buy for the $700 @imok mentioned! And that will enrich you and make you more knowledgable while the same amount spent on panel crap just keeps you dependent.
@jsg That make sense! I may be a bit confuse for awhile there since @goinsj2010 advice was actually quite easy to understand for a newbie like me. When I think back, my original topic was "without control panel and from scratch" so it's better if someone could tell me how to get away from this open source or paid control panel route. When you mentioned about investing in books instead, I realize that make sense too!
The problem of books, they are far away from real cases.
The best way of learning - practice in real enveriopment with dozens of mistakes.
Books as theoretical background of "how possible to do X while i have Y" it's pretty ok, but nothing serious. If someone does not have real lfie needs on learning something to grow, he/she will not do it, even if will force himself/herself.
Depends. Books on linux (incl. config. and admin.) might be a bit out of date but 90+% still apply. Plus it's about UNDERSTANDING linux or a web server; how they tick, how they are structured, etc.
Once, one has a basic understanding things make sense and get a lot easier and the questions are getting smarter too (which is important because many experienced guys just don't answer questions that are too newb).
And of course it's not an either-or. One can - and should - do both, reading a good introductory book -and- research and practice a lot.
@jsg I completely agree with your premise that it's better to learn the underlying technologies (OS, web server, database, etc) rather than relying on control panels. Personally, I hate "panel crap" and prefer the CLI for all my server admin duties.
After re-reading the original post I think I misunderstood the OP's goals. I thought @Dedicadude was intending to set up the server up from scratch and without the benefit of having any VPS control panel (from the provider). Based on the following sentences, I thought that the OP was still considering the use of a control panel running on the rented server:
@Dedicadude I strongly encourage you to learn how to install, and manage the entire software stack that you intend to use. My earlier post wasn't meant to discourage that.
How you go about the process of learning depends on your goals. There are only so many hours in the day. Learning how to manage the operating system, configure the web server, install PHP modules, etc is a great goal, but it will take time. If you are trying to maintain "30-50 wordpress/codeigniter/laravel websites, some forums and ecommerce..." then you are going to need to prioritize your efforts as necessary. It's not clear to me whether the primary focus of this endeavor is intended as A.) a profit-making venture or B.) a learning opportunity to develop your skills.
@goinsj2010 I don’t see how I can instantly make profit from a server setup without a proper business plan. For example, my original plan is to master the art of Linux server administration at the same time enjoying it as part of my hobby with very little stress while taking advantage of the infrastructure that I’m going to build and turn it into somewhat a money-making machine (or at least) a platform for my money-making projects. Most of my projects are heavily dependent on ads/donation monetization. Even so, if I could rent some spaces through subscription service could be a potentially great way to earn extra income right? But that’s not really my main goal at the moment because I rather not think too much about the money part. I strongly believe if we build something great - the money will automagically come by itself later - just like selling life insurance.
I’m ready to get my hands dirty and configure my LEMP stacks but what I really want to know is how much difference can it be setting up / handling a dedicated server manually rather than doing it on a VPS (using control panels - free or paid). Getting back on my original post too, what should I do with other services such as DNS, managing zone files or rdns, IPv4/v6 management, sFTP, SSL, Dovecot, exim, pop3/imap, Git, Nodejs, Ruby, Perl, Python, firewalls, virtual host, playing around with php modules or 3rd party extensions such as ioncube zend image magic ffmpeg, and a few technology that I normally used in cPanel/WHM if I am to do it manually through terminal? Maintaining those individually require a lot of time instead of paying $xx.xx to get it done with a single click of update button... it might be wiser to spend money and work smart instead? This is also why I’m stuck with my $10.50/mo combo setup from Linode and ServerPilot for a single website. It can be really expensive and not efficient if I am to manage 50 more apps this way...
Edit: fix some typos and grammatical errors since I’m not a native english speaker.
You can use mondo rescue to migrate your linux based VPS to dedicated server. Mondo will create an iso image of your VPS which you than mount on dedicated server and boot from image. Try to get a server with same drive partition as is on VPS so as to reduce errors. I have done this during my job at HP. You may also try platespin by SUSE, though it will cost you.
If you end up with QuickPacket, as someone mentioned, you can get those licenses cheaper (for internal network use) $35.80 on QPS (Assuming VPS licenses) vs $50.30 which you currently pay. Just my two cents.
WHMCS - $12.80, cPanel VPS - $11 (Or Dedi $32), Softaculous VPS - $1 (Or Dedi $2), CloudLinux - $11 ($9 when purchased with cPanel license), Kernelcare - $2
@Dedicadude
First important thing: Don't get fooled or even disillusioned by oh so many things one SEEMS to need to know (DNS, managing zone files or rdns, sFTP, SSL, Dovecot, exim, pop3/imap, Git, Nodejs, Ruby, Perl, Python, firewalls, virtual host, playing around with php modules or 3rd party extensions such as ioncube zend image magic ffmpeg ...)
Next point: The differences between a dedi and a VPS are pretty much neglegible. If you master one you know almost everything relevant about the other too.
One of the reasons I suggested that you start with a VPS is simply that that allows you to profit from the hosters experience. You can look around how they (quite probably professionals) did things. Just look into e.g. /etc/network/interfaces and you'll see a live example of how to configure a network (no matter whether dedi or VPS).
Another good source is to simply look at what and how the panel crap does in the config files. That can serve as a "bridge", starting at the panels you know, looking at how changes in the panel change config files ... and in the end understanding and being able to do the configuration yourself without a panel.
Plus: Keep it small! First only care about linux and a good shell (which btw is also a good example of my earlier advice to alway stay mainstream. "mksh" for example is doubtlessly the best shell but you will find by far less support on the internet for mksh than for say for "bash" which is a poorer choice but is mainstream and hence you'll find tons of material about how to do things with bash). Also be sure to master SSH (incl. scp and sftp) because that will be the very core of how you interact and remote configure stuff on your VPS or dedi.
Next, learn enough about email and DNS to understand what you need and how it basically works. That will allow you to chose a good service and to properly use it. But don't do it yourself.
Finally look at Nginx and once you got that add PHP and FCGI.
That will get you quite far and provide a good basis for further adventures. And keep in mind that wrt. servers it's much better to know a lot about just the basics than to know a little about a lot of things!
P.S. I advise you to be very mistrusting when someone recommends product or software or service XYZ to do things. Usually you do NOT need service XYZ to e.g. transfer your stuff from a VPS to a dedi. Pretty much all everyday tasks can be done with basic means and tools like e.g. tar and SSH.
Awesome @jsg I appreciate the heads up. Some people are already filling up my inbox promoting their VPS and software smh... the learning curve is too much but you are right. ICT is a face pace industry. The same goes in programming. I dont need to focus too much on frameworks, webpack, or composer whilst I can do it through a basic CLI. I spent few months learning CodeIgniter and all of Laravel terms but when I think back it’s better that I used those time to master PHP7 instead - the same goes with server administration. Knowing that you were talking about straight up basic bash stuff makes me wonder I’m just making my life complicated and completely miserable trying to put everything into 1 basket. I’ll follow your advice; it’s the most logical way to solve my problems right now... (and calm me down lol)
I still want to know if 1.) $35/month for dedi-cpanel is worth all the troubles or 2.) simply use a raw dedicated server and start doing all the manual shits on it @ 3.) do a VM and use a $15 vps-cpanel? 4.) mix and match with free open source panel — money and time wise which is preferable?
If you want to learn all those things, go ahead.
If you just don't want to use serverpilot, cause of the price and limitations:
1) Control Panel'ish (Pick one)
2) DNS (Pick one)
3) Mail Server
Other plans are available for Runcloud, ClouDNS & MXRoute, the ones in this post are the ones I recommend in case you want to start for cheap.
Thank you @volver for the suggestions, however I’ve already made a Runcloud research prior to subscribing to ServerPilot and found out they have more overheads and slower performance due to some bloated services. I did a research on Agius Cloud, CloudWay and EasyEngine too. I’m all passed these cloud setup because they dont offer all-in-one package such as DNS/email server out of the box. $15/mo is almost the same pricing as the full-fledge cPanel vps but I’m actually trying to figure out a complete rock solid dedicated server setup here. I also try not to buy from a service provider within my country to avoid GST last time...
Then, you are looking for https://cyberpanel.net/
Mail, DNS, SSL w/ LetsEncrypt intergrated too, Firewall, Modsecurity, possible to use apache .htaccess rules, MariaDB, Wordpress auto installer, one of the best wordpress caching plugins for free (lscache)
@Dedicadude
As it happened to be mentioned: MXRoute.com is run by a well respected LET member (@jar) and I've heard lots of good things from customers about it.
And 7$/yr is certainly a low price for having email off your shoulders and with a good provider.
@jsg thanks man, i'll surely look into it soon. i personally use protonmail because trying my best to get far away from google privacy stuff.
Can anyone tell me what's the most ideal panel-dependent-free dedicated server technical setup for my use case? What should I install and which software license must I use/subscribe? Let's say I plan to sell VPS for a small groups of local clients, can someone guide me with the virtualization? Please don't suggest cPanel.