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Vultr vs Virmach for cheap hosting - Page 2
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Vultr vs Virmach for cheap hosting

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  • @MS said: Which location(s)?

    From other topic:

    Psychz for Los Angeles, and we're looking to also do Amsterdam right after Los Angeles since that's in high demand.

    Thanked by 1_MS_
  • @VirMach said: About 0.6% of services faced some "delinking" issue. HTML5 VNC was broken for some time after SolusVM update. We pushed an update to all servers, but about 3% of nodes are still experiencing some level of web VNC issue. Services are still accessible via any other VNC application in these cases. Network issues are rare. We did have a recent issue with nullroutes from the datacenter. This, unfortunately, did incorrectly affect 0.005% of customers (where they received a nullrouted IP on their new service.) Migration from OVZ to KVM was definitely not perfect. Major issues were extremely rare, but more prominent than we had hoped or seen in testing.

    If you're answering questions - I have one that I'll never be able to submit a ticket about because ISO installation is a possibility:

    Why are root passwords non-functional 80% of the time when installing certain Debian KVM templates?

  • verovero Member, Host Rep

    @Hxxx said:
    Wanted to jump in and say that...
    1- You can't simply compare Virmach to a Titan like VULTR. Simply you can't.

    That's it, wonder why nobody else noticed that fact. Still, being compared to something greater is cool advertising already.

    Some of you guys probably won't understand and is ok since most here are just hungry for cheapo unusable services. Then when something goes to shit as usual... threads with "my VPS at x shitty provider is down, I'm paying 2 dollars a year and I'm losing MILLLLLLIONSSSS" start to appear...

    This is the funny part about LET IMO. But it has some charm.. Guys share knowledge and they quickly figure out who is who here.

  • Daniel15Daniel15 Veteran
    edited January 2021

    @bobe said: cat /proc/cpuinfo is model : 13 AND model name: QEMU Virtual CPU version (cpu64-rhel6)

    Confirmed, no aes in flags,so I need to change the server or throw away

    Open a ticket and ask them to enable CPU host passthrough. Then you'll see the real CPU model, and AES-NI will be available for use. The CPU is most likely a Xeon E3 or E5.

  • BertieBertie Member
    edited January 2021

    @Daniel15 said: Open a ticket and ask them to enable CPU host passthrough. Then you'll see the real CPU model, and AES-NI will be available for use. The CPU is most likely a Xeon E3 or E5.

    Alternatively, I believe the (mostly undocumented) work-around is to install an OS from the template, followed by the ISO install. If you install directly from ISO, the VM doesn't have CPU flags enabled.

  • @Bertie said:

    @Daniel15 said: Open a ticket and ask them to enable CPU host passthrough. Then you'll see the real CPU model, and AES-NI will be available for use. The CPU is most likely a Xeon E3 or E5.

    Alternatively, I believe the (mostly undocumented) work-around is to install an OS from the template, followed by the ISO install. If you install directly from ISO, the VM doesn't have CPU flags enabled.

    The trick is reinstall to templates with "gen2", debian 8 personally.
    Then, you can reinstall to any other os you want.

    Thanked by 2Bertie abiaolaoge
  • Without this whole 'service not provisioned in time / 9+ day ticket response time' shenanigans, I would choose anyone over VirMach only because of their strict resource limitations.

    It's like "Hey, take these 3 cpu cores, BUT ACTUALLY please don't use them, we don't do that here"

    Thanked by 1pluush
  • BertieBertie Member
    edited January 2021

    @elliotc said: The trick is reinstall to templates with "gen2", debian 8 personally.

    Then, you can reinstall to any other os you want.

    Thanks for being more specific. I've personally just reinstalled with Debian 9 and that's been fine too.

    @miroc said: Without this whole 'service not provisioned in time / 9+ day ticket response time' shenanigans, I would choose anyone over VirMach only because of their strict resource limitations.

    Honestly, I used to think similarly. I held off on BF 2019 and only picked up 2 services, and they worked well enough at the time that I picked up much more during BF 2020. One of my VMs had 3 cores so I just CPU limited to 1 core and that seemed to work out fine with no complaints from Virmach.

    They're perfectly fine for personal use. I don't have any resentment towards Virmach, but I find it super unfortunate when any criticism of Virmach is shut down because Amir threatens not to hold more sales or "my service has been perfect, you're lying". Virmach can't be compared to Vultr, but that doesn't stop people from claiming Virmach is on par with large IaaS providers.

    Virmach is certainly not perfect, and holding hosts on a pedestal (thinking they're perfect) is really counter-productive to what a hosting forum should be doing: offering a place to candidly share feedback and advice about hosting.

    I understand that Virmach is flooded with tickets. I try and avoid opening them myself unless my service is literally unusuable. I get that it's a low-margin service and that I'm not entitled to open 3 tickets and demand an urgent response for the low prices I'm paying, but support is still very lacking and Virmach is a poor option in any case where you're doing something important/production with your service. Took me days to get an unusable service addressed after "awaiting technical review".

    I didn't care that much because it wasn't like I was hosting a web store on it or anything; just doing my thing in the meantime.

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    @Bertie said: Why are root passwords non-functional 80% of the time when installing certain Debian KVM templates?

    It depends on the node you're on and the specific operating system/kernel version. At some point in time SolusVM's functionality broke or some template-related operations. It's on the list to try to get it uniform and re-do these templates that we have direct from SolusVM in a way where it works with the reset features. We did correct most of these already, for example, Debian 9 had this issue and it was resolved, unless a new SolusVM update broke the functionality in some way. We encourage you to report these to us because this is how we can identify and resolve it more quickly for the exact version on the exact node your service is on.

    It will always be possible to replicate these buttons to some degree by essentially doing what SolusVM tries to do. If these functions do not work, you can also contact us and as long as you clearly state the issue is with the specific control and how it behaves, we can do the function for you.

    We do also have some helpful selectable ISOs that should assist you with password resets and partitioning.

    @Bertie said: I have one that I'll never be able to submit a ticket about because ISO installation is a possibility

    If you're reporting an issue with an image, and include all the details for us to identify and resolve the issue, feel free to make a ticket.

    But just don't expect it to be resolved for immediate usage, it would take time and just be added to our list.

    @miroc said: I would choose anyone over VirMach only because of their strict resource limitations.

    It's like "Hey, take these 3 cpu cores, BUT ACTUALLY please don't use them, we don't do that here"

    If everyone was provided completely dedicated resources on virtual servers, the biggest part of their appeal would be lost for most people. We do have "VDS" services, and we have dedicated servers if that's the route you should want or need to take, but they are priced accordingly.

    As for bursting usage, it's completely fine and in most cases you can usually use it as if it's dedicated resources as long as your service itself is not essentially struggling to keep up with the resources it has allocated. Allow me to share all of today's warnings and powerdowns with you. Maybe this will paint a clearer picture.

    • Two services (SSD256 and KVM-Special-512) powered down for CPU usage, after being warned 7-9 days ago. Average 99.97 to 107.54% CPU (one core) over a period of 2 hours or more. Re-occurred 3 times and in many of these cases continued this way for the entire week.
    • Twenty-one services powered down for I/O usage. Consists of 14x SSD256, 1x OV-Special-384, 1x SSD512, 1x Pro+ Lite, 1x BF-Special-2020, 1x BF-Special 2018, 1x SSD1G, and 1x SSD2G. Thirteen of these were SSD256's ordered by the same person across multiple accounts (usually mass abuse.)

    For the I/O abuse above, the lowest usage out of all twenty-one of them, on an SSD256, was 431.15 transfers per second (number of I/O requests) with previous usages of 1,291.26 and 1,866.37 -- this is over a period of 8 hours. The average over a period of 24 hours was 444.53 TPS, 3105.85 read requests per second, 278.79 write requests per second, at an average data size of 3973.12 bytes read per second and 168.96 bytes write per second.

    The highest usage was also on an SSD256. This one resulted in an immediate shutdown, as in an emergency shutdown with no prior warning. After the shutdown, the CPU usage on the node dropped from 66% to 51% (on a 32 core server) and I/O usage dropped from about 50% (of 8x1TB SSDs in HW RAID 10) to 10-15% so this is an example of our system taking action to improve the quality of service for everyone on that node as well. By emergency shutdown, it does not mean it gives the customer a few minutes and then shuts it down -- this only kicks in if it's also the result of overloading the server to an extreme level (and is super rare.) This one happened for a few hours, sustained, until the system intervened, which gives plenty of time for users to burst should they be installing a software or other temporarily intensive tasks. This was an average of 53,178.94 TPS with 425,032.16 read and 265.79 write requests per second. This was also around 4,000 bytes read per second and causing the device to reach near saturation levels.

    Let me know if you have any suggestions for further improving the system based on the figures above, or if you have any more specific questions.

    @Bertie said: I understand that Virmach is flooded with tickets. I try and avoid opening them myself unless my service is literally unusuable. I get that it's a low-margin service and that I'm not entitled to open 3 tickets and demand an urgent response for the low prices I'm paying, but support is still very lacking and Virmach is a poor option in any case where you're doing something important/production with your service. Took me days to get an unusable service addressed after "awaiting technical review".

    Even for limited support packages, response times will drastically improve after the next few days as we are almost caught up on the backlog of tickets.

    We've sorted them out to where it's much faster to complete them now and should complete somewhere around 800 to 1,000 tickets in one day today. Most of these tickets are already resolved, via automation. We're just giving the final responses/closing it out and letting everyone know it was already resolved.

  • pluushpluush Member
    edited January 2021

    The threat of asking you to pay at VirMach, if you even slightly overuse one of your VPS (which you may not always monitor all the time, and let's say you might have gotten a DDOS on a non DDOS protected IP) made me end all my services in VirMach. You can pay $1.25 a month for a service, and a $25 surprise bill might even appear in a sudden. To me, even properly using VirMach VPSes worries me. At one time I had 10-20 VPSes on VirMach. In Vultr I had a bad code running that were using 100% of CPU for days (on one VPS) without even being warned by Vultr. After I found out about it on their panel I immediately fixed the issue, and my CPU usage on other VPSes were relatively low.

    Sometimes I feel like processing power should also be pooled and averaged from all your VPSes just like bandwidth in Linode.

    These were my experiences with VirMach, I'll stick with Vultr for core infrastructures in my project.

    $25 may not sound like much especially by U.S. standards, but for example in Indonesia if you're using the minimum wage set by the government in the capital it's roughly 2 full days worth of work.

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    @pluush said: and a $25 surprise bill might even appear in a sudden.

    We haven't added $25 suspension/administration fees outside of automated chargebacks for probably a year. No one really paid those nor did we force people to pay them or send them to collections, it's just there to indicate the account was not in good standing but we shifted to mainly using another method to block future orders until previous issues are resolved first.

    @pluush said: In Vultr I had a bad code running that were using 100% of CPU for days (on one VPS) without even being warned by Vultr

    We don't see this as a positive. If we allow someone to max out CPU, which does usually occur as a result of errors, we prefer, and most customers prefer it's powered off. Most customers realize this, fix their code, and let us know it's resolved. It doesn't really end how you are imagining it.

    The only difference is while on Vultr it took you days as you mentioned without even being warned until you happened to notice it, we would send a warning without power-down and then a warning with power-down should you miss the previous communication and the abnormal usage continues. These are what most cases are these days, the customer using the warning to correct the issue, outside of a few mass abusers that are clearly signing up for many accounts and maxing out usage on purpose, over and over, until they're suspended.

    @pluush said: Sometimes I feel like processing power should also be pooled and averaged from all your VPSes just like bandwidth in Linode.

    Generally, if you require a certain amount of processing power, we would recommend you go with packages that suit your needs instead if you plan on bursting them at the same time. The bandwidth idea though is interesting/feasible and perhaps if we can in the future we will do that as an option.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • Honestly i've choosed Virmach for:

    • prices when discounted
    • lot of public communications like you can see here
    • acceptable / common AUP
    • good uptime

    But i would not put critical prod on Virmach cause of this:

    • relatively weak support (you have to go straight to the point / investigate for them and then they will do the job, else they will just not check / try to understand what you are saying)
    • support answers quality are far away from what we can see publicly on LET
    • some panel features are buggy or could be more ergonomic
    • i fear when i read parts of terms with content like "if you do that we may terminate your service because we don't want you as a customer" even if i don't host anything heavy, dangerous or not allowed by law
    • owner may feel like rude / in powertrip sometime
    • maybe related to "best effort support" when you have special offers but not possible to open multiple tickets to split different subjects you may have to talk about (iirc i had an automatic ticket to change rdns and i was not able to open a ticket about a panel issue)

    I don't like much when a provider makes me feel like a bad customer or a kid ^^. But it's their business and their choices and i've accepted to deal with it.

    I'm a little customer with non critical stuffs so i go with known providers on LET with good offers usually ; and i don't need support if it's not an issue on provider's side. So i was aware about what i dislike regarding Virmach but totally open to deal with it as i don't need much support, providers like Virmach do their best to offer great uptimes and fix technical issues quick.

    Regarding your needs, it looks a bit like mine, so probably Virmach is a good fit.

    I would like to suggest you to take a look also on NexusBytes (owned by @seriesn) and BuyVM (owned by @Francisco) ; these guys are always willing to help and makes you feel more than welcome. Their terms and AUP are btw super clear. Francisco is by far an awesome tech guy supported by an active community. UUnfortunately both of them doesnt offer discounts.

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