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FI/HEL, 6 Cores / 12 Threads Intel Xeon, 2GB ECC RAM, 5GB SSD, 1Gbit, Backups included @ €3.16/month
Introducing Webdock to LowEndTalk
Hello everybody!
We are happy to finally be a part of the LowEndTalk community and would like to try and post an offer here and see how well you guys receive us. Webdock is not like the typical hosting provider you might see on LowEndTalk, for a variety of reasons. Let's try and explain a few of the highlights:
- We operate our own hardware in Co-Location (read more below)
- We have built a complete end-to-end hosting platform based on Canonical LXD with our own Control Panel (3rd party control panels available, see below)
- Which means we can provide a lot of unique benefits and features (and some drawbacks vis-a-vis KVM for example)
The LowEndTalk September Special
If you want to try out Webdock, we have put together a coupon code for you guys. After signing up with us and adding a credit card, add the coupon code:
LOWENDTALKSEPT007
And you will receive a €10.00 Euro Credit added to your account which you can use on any one of our server profiles. There is no requirement for purchase and you can simply spin up and delete a server again and get fully refunded any unused compute/credit.
Offer terms:
- This coupon code is only valid for new accounts
- The coupon can be activated up to and including September 30th 2020
Click here to get started
Try Our Smallest Server Profile for Free
We invite you to try our smallest server profile which has a sticker price of €4.00 so with the above coupon you can take it for a spin for a whole 2 months and not pay a dime (and even have a bit of credit left over). With the coupon you'd on average get the first year for just €3.16/month
Webdock Micro:
- 6 Cores / 12 Threads Intel Xeon CPU
- 2GB ECC RAM
- 5GB (fast) SSD storage backed by ZFS
- 1Gbit port with "unlimited" traffic. No overage charges. Fair use applies: read more here
- 1 Dedicated IPv4 address and a /112 IPv6 range (65,563 addresses) included
- Server will be placed in Helsinki Finland (no, we are not reselling Hetzner)
- Choose between "Perfect Server" LAMP/LEMP stacks or clean Ubuntu images
- Lots of backups included, awesome control panel, DDOS protection, Free Email forwarding, Free transactional email with Postmark etc. etc. - check out our website for full details.
Our next tier up has more RAM and more Disk and in our larger profiles you can get up to a whopping 15 Cores / 30 Threads. With the coupon above you could try our next-tier-up profile, Micro+, for the first month essentially for free. Check out all our Profiles and pricing here
Click here to get started
YABS benchmark for this (our smallest) profile (thanks larmarat)
Basic System Information:
---------------------------------
Processor : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2670 v2 @ 2.50GHz
CPU cores : 12 @ 1200.053 MHz
AES-NI : ✔ Enabled
VM-x/AMD-V : ✔ Enabled
RAM : 1.9Gi
Swap : 119Gi
df: no file systems processed
Disk :
fio Disk Speed Tests (Mixed R/W 50/50):
---------------------------------
Block Size | 4k (IOPS) | 64k (IOPS)
------ | --- ---- | ---- ----
Read | 47.36 MB/s (11.8k) | 210.49 MB/s (3.2k)
Write | 47.41 MB/s (11.8k) | 211.59 MB/s (3.3k)
Total | 94.78 MB/s (23.6k) | 422.08 MB/s (6.5k)
| |
Block Size | 512k (IOPS) | 1m (IOPS)
------ | --- ---- | ---- ----
Read | 226.86 MB/s (443) | 229.38 MB/s (224)
Write | 238.91 MB/s (466) | 244.65 MB/s (238)
Total | 465.77 MB/s (909) | 474.03 MB/s (462)
iperf3 Network Speed Tests (IPv4):
---------------------------------
Provider | Location (Link) | Send Speed | Recv Speed
| | |
Bouygues Telecom | Paris, FR (10G) | 555 Mbits/sec | 1.57 Gbits/sec
Online.net | Paris, FR (10G) | 477 Mbits/sec | 1.62 Gbits/sec
WorldStream | The Netherlands (10G) | 568 Mbits/sec | 911 Mbits/sec
wilhelm.tel | Hamburg, DE (10G) | 617 Mbits/sec | 1.68 Gbits/sec
Biznet | Bogor, Indonesia (1G) | 21.2 Mbits/sec | 163 Mbits/sec
Hostkey | Moscow, RU (1G) | 686 Mbits/sec | 937 Mbits/sec
Velocity Online | Tallahassee, FL, US (10G) | 231 Mbits/sec | 650 Mbits/sec
Airstream Comms | Eau Claire, WI, US (10G) | 202 Mbits/sec | 575 Mbits/sec
Hurricane Electric | Fremont, CA, US (10G) | 174 Mbits/sec | 473 Mbits/sec
iperf3 Network Speed Tests (IPv6):
---------------------------------
Provider | Location (Link) | Send Speed | Recv Speed
| | |
Bouygues Telecom | Paris, FR (10G) | 417 Mbits/sec | 1.61 Gbits/sec
Online.net | Paris, FR (10G) | 515 Mbits/sec | 894 Mbits/sec
WorldStream | The Netherlands (10G) | busy | 1.79 Gbits/sec
wilhelm.tel | Hamburg, DE (10G) | 488 Mbits/sec | 1.67 Gbits/sec
Airstream Comms | Eau Claire, WI, US (10G) | 84.0 Mbits/sec | 122 Mbits/sec
Hurricane Electric | Fremont, CA, US (10G) | 151 Mbits/sec | 528 Mbits/sec
Geekbench 5 Benchmark Test:
---------------------------------
Test | Value
|
Single Core | 513
Multi Core | 3362
Full Test | https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/3671662
How can you provide so much CPU-juice for so little?
We get this question asked a lot and it is a bit strange for us having to explain our hardware profiles as much as we do. The industry is so used to optimizing tenant density and is so marked by a reseller culture (It's resellers all the way down!) that people don't realize that us "near-first-tier operators" who are in co-location and can take advantage of economies at scale and low overheads, are looking at perfectly adequate profit margins even with an outstanding hardware mix. What we do specifically is:
- We operate high-quality refurb hardware (typically Dell Poweredge units) in order to cut costs on outlay while providing excellent performance
- Take advantage of Linux Containers as our hypervisor is LXD. Many providers would see this is a good way to increase tenant density. At Webdock we do the opposite: We pass on more hardware resources to you, the end-user.
- We actively balance and adjust capacity according to load. No host is ever allowed to go above 30% utilization sustained
- Compute density is increasing rapidly these years. Within a few years we are looking at deploying kilothread Epyc systems in a 1U package. That's a lot of flippin' compute.
- And frankly, maybe we are just not as greedy as so many other providers ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
TL;DR: With Webdock, you do actually get what it says on the sticker.!
Helsinki Finland. So, this is just Hetzner, right?
Yes and no. As stated we operate our own hardware in co-location and in the EU we have chosen Hetzner as our co-location partner. This means that we own our own racks in the Hetzner Datacenter, we operate our own IPv4 blocks ( RIPE ) and Hetzner merely supplies the redundant power and network connections. Add to that the fantastic level of technical expertise in their datacenters and fantastic DDOS protection, you get the best of both worlds with Webdock.
That's not a lot of SSD Storage - what about hardware upgrades?
A primary reason we do not offer as much storage included in our base packages as the competition is because we use on-board storage and not network-attached storage. In our largest profiles this is RAIDed Nvme drives and in our smaller profiles this is RAIDed enterprise SSD drives (SATA+ZFS). We opted for this route in order to provide excellent performance, first and foremost.
We offer a range of expansion options to our base profiles. All our profiles can be upgraded or downgraded without any downtime and in addition you can get a range of hardware upgrades, including:
On-Board HDD backed Storage mounted in a directory of your choosing
€0.075 /Month /GBExpanding your SSD root storage volume
€ 0.125 /Month /GB
In addition you can order additional IPv4 addresses, more RAM etc. Please take a look at our Additional Products page for full pricing and details.
Webdock is probably not suited for most resellers
As our hypervisor is LXD on Ubuntu we are not suited for something like installing KVM. We do support nested containers (LXD and Docker), but you are loosing control of certain aspects which you may want to tweak if you want to further slice up our VPS's. We also do not support CentOS so cpanel is a no go. However we do have quite a few shared-host resellers on our platform that use 3rd party control panels such as Runcloud and Serverpilot. We would just like to leave you with this quote from one of our customers:
i'm really in love with Webdock, it was such a breeze moving my sites from an old dedicated server which was far more costly. It's so nice having everything I need already installed (MySQL, PHP, composer, git, etc). Control panel is really nice. All the extras like shell users, certificates, crons, etc, spot on! So happy to be done with Cpanel forever now. -Nate, USA
So for single site -> Single (awesome) server type reselling, Webdock has a pretty sweet control panel you might want to give a chance.
In addition Webdock is fully GDPR compliant and you can easily generate a DPA between you and your clients you may be reselling to within the European Union. Also, Webdock has really been built from the ground up with agencies and "premium reselling" in mind - not shared hosting / lowest common denominator hosting. We certainly will not stop you from doing so, but if you care about more than reaching the lowest possible cost we urge you to consider a 1 server = 1 app/website approach as the benefits are many.
With all that said, we are releasing our API within 1-2 weeks where we will have SDKs for Python, NodeJS and PHP right out the gate and shortly following that we will release a (free) WHMCS integration plugin, so that could be an option for you if you are looking to resell Webdock in more of a shared-setup with automated billing etc.
FAQ
What are your terms and conditions?
Our terms and conditions are pretty awesome, actually. You should check them out. Here are some links to all the legal nitty-gritty:
- Terms and Conditions. No bullshit guarantees.
- Billing & Pricing, Trial Periods and more
- Privacy and GDPR.
Where are your Datacenters located?
We are in co-location with Hetzner in Helsinki Finland (details above). In the USA, Dallas TX, we lease hardware from Servermania - thus the lower specs on those servers. At the moment we are all sold out of servers in Dallas however but we are in the process of deploying more servers there which should become available within the next few weeks.
If you want to try out Webdock, it is a breeze to move servers between regions - so there is nothing stopping you from provisioning a server in Finland and then later migrating it to the US (you will obviously receive a new IP address when doing so)
What is your Refund Policy?
We refund all unused compute time down to the day instantly and directly to your payment method as soon as you delete a server. As simple as that.
Supported payment types?
We only support Credit Cards with Stripe as our payment processor at the moment. Later this year we will roll out Paypal and AliPay support.
Do you price match?
Not really something we have had to deal with, ever. But if you find something that's a VPS with better specs shoot us a message and we will take a look. We don't promise anything as there's lots more included than just hardware in our platform (such as our expansive feature set and 3rd party services, stellar support and more).
Test IP?
Since all servers are essentially free for the first 24 hours with Webdock, regardless of coupons or not, we urge you to simply create a server with us and run some tests. This makes more sense than us reserving some "golden ip" for you to test against.
What Operating Systems are available?
We only support Ubuntu in a few version flavors at the moment and do not plan on expanding to other OS's at this time.
Select Customer Reviews
“Quality, Security & performance, 1 push of a button.. Webdock gives it all! Even their customer support has a high performance - Yoram, Netherlands
“ Free transactional email from Postmark? Absolutely love your rock bottom prices! You guys are killing it! You've built something really really cool here. - Pratheek, India
“You all seem to be really on top of your game - Alexander, Spain
“Honestly i've tried like 5 different hosting companies today and yours was the best, you have the most intuitive GUI and start up was the fastest. - Hayden, Canada
“How have I never heard of you? This is awesome! - Tobias, USA
Comments
Wow, a WoT provider.
I can't even find the order page.
That disk space vs cores ratio is... interesting to say the least.
What's a WoT provider? The order page? You sign up and spin up a server. Done.
Yep and that is explained in our post here - on-board redundant storage is a lot faster but not as "flexible" as network attached storage in the sense we cannot scale infinitely and have to keep a reserve for users who might want to buy more etc. - It's a tradeoff which we think is worth it for the performance gain.
Any YABS/Monster @Webdock_io ?
So much marketing fuss, that I can't even find where is offer. Just static of buzz words.
So, refurbed servers, low storage, high CPU (shared), rusty spinners and Hetzner infra. Ok. Now can you make it 1 EUR/mo? 2 CPU would be fine for Wireguard server.
What modules activated on the node?
Howdy. None of our server profiles use HDD - it's all SSD.
Hetzner power and network cables yes, our own hardware, IP blocks and software stack.
The offer is stated in the first two sections (coupon, then specs on our smallest profile) - take a look at webdock.io for full hardware details / see all profiles.
Modules activated on the node? I don't really think you understand what our servers are from a basic standpoint. I know it's a bit confusing and too much to take in that we are so different from what you are probably used to seeing
I will need you to clarify that chocolateshirt (nice nick btw)
Woman on Top Wall of Text
What I mean is, I can't even find the link to the order page.
First I thought you meant Web of Things
Fair enough Thanks for that feedback - just edited the post and put in some big phat links. The final markdown formatting of LET is, well, different from the post preview. We'll try do do better next time.
Exactly. Pls provide any YABS of offered plan, because only says 6 v cores most time mean nothing, bench will say much more or all
I know providers (fair-sharing) when 1 vcore is more powerful than 6 cores together from else..
Read the whole post, interesting idea Also, what people keep referring to as YABS is a bench mark script
Lxd containers. Node, what kernel modules does node have enabled? Can i use your lxd container for wireguard vpn?
Yes, I don't understand what is servers...
I will check with an engineer to do a benchmark run with YABS and post back here - but you can also do so easily by yourself by spinning up a server and giving it a go. It's free to try after all
Also, you are absolutely correct. A very old Xeon with lots of threads can easily get its ass kicked by a single thread from a brand new (Ryzen or whatever) CPU.
Our current price/performance is quite good in that respect as far as I know from tests we have made recently.
One problem we have in the industry (IMO) is that there is no industry-default benchmark where you can compare these things across providers - sure there are some sites out there, but they all have their problems.
The outside world, I dont know.
But...in my calculations, many LET providers are good at photosynthetic, and operating at a loss.
Yes I gathered as much - we will get a yabs benchmark up shortly for both our Micro and Pro profiles. But as I mentioned in my other reply: Feel free to try it yourself. It's free to try after all.
LXC/LXD has been quite painful at most places (it was horrible with Cociu's host solutions when initially rolled out and hastily rolled back). TerraHost (Norway) also have a line of VPSs based on containers and while it "works" it is really not great at all, trampling merrily over some of your /etc/ files when you reboot to say the least (and locking up hard if somethings are out of place). Hey, but at least it mostly works, and they allow you to use a few other OSs including Debian.
I'm a bit puzzled at the choice here (density wise I think OpenVZ7 will compete fairly without some of the inherent pain of LXC).
@Webdock_io - how come you don't support any other OS other than Ubuntu? I'm sure that's going to miff a lot of the folks to start with.
Any plans for a better balanced spec (less CPU + more disk or less price or something in between)? Also, do you have any plans for shorter billing plans/cycles like hourly/daily? 5GB is kind of really tricky to do anything significant with disk wise when you consider 6 cores and 2GB of RAM...
Ah I see. I apologize. Not sure about wireguard I will have to check with an engineer. I know we support OpenVPN (apologize if I am ignorant here, haven't used Wireguard)
What sort of module information would you like to see, a dump from lsmod? If so, here you go:
Yes we know. Actually while building out our platform over the last 3 years, given the issues we have helped fix with the LXD team and the workarounds we have had to make, we are almost certain we are the only guys out there who have really nailed this.
w/regard to Ubuntu: This is primarily due to the management tools in our dashboard are all built to interact with Ubuntu. Some OS's might work fine without much change, but for simplicity and to keep our codebase somewhat sane we have chosen to focus on Ubuntu as the stock OS.
Depends on what you mean by balance - check out our larger profiles, there you get a lot more disk and ram for your money and this might be more to your liking. You can also expand disk as mentioned, quite easily.
We have no immediate plans on changing our profiles, except possibly raising the disk allowance for our smaller profiles (again, we did so already once last year)
As newer hardware comes in and we deploy more and more units, this will all evolve over time, as is the norm I suppose
Good at photosynthesis? So they are plant-based hosting providers?
Not sure if it makes sense for people to operate at a loss. We do not.
I forgot to answer regarding shorter billing cycles: We fail to see the point. Either you run an app / server or you do not. If you are just trying somehting out, you can do so for free up to 24 hours with Webdock. If you then run something and decide you don't want it, we refund you instantly for all unused time down to the day.
There are some other considerations here w/regard to complexity and general operations, bookkeeping etc. as well, which makes our monthly billing work out as the ideal for us
Aaaaand to clarify: Our LXD VPS servers behave (99%+) like any other VPS. None of the nonsense and shenanigans you mention here is present on our servers. Only edge cases you might encounter are kernel module syou might need for specialized software, but here we are flexible and usually enable / tweak kernel parameters as needed (as long as they do not cause stability or security issues)
I wouldn't be surprised, considering that you're running an untrusted multi-tenant setup with somewhat dubious isolation (compared to KVM and maybe even OpenVZ which seems to have been more tested due to wider deployments/base).
This is definitely a pain point for the intended consumer and I think you will have to support a wider variety of OSs somewhat stably to get serious traction.
There's enough pain in LXC/LXD itself to deal with that being forced to also live with an "alien" OS is going to be brutal for a number of users.
That's a bummer. It would have been nice to have some sort of a really low end plan for the Low Enders here to use as a VPN with wireguard at a much smaller price point than you have (despite your credit offer).
I might give it a shot, but believe me, everytime I've used an LXC system, I've tripped up on it pretty hard that it locks me out fairly quickly. I've to specially treat many files inside /etc/ that it really blows me away to make so many exceptions. That time is better invested elsewhere unless there's some unique value to the VPS. You'll be surprised at how that 1% becomes so important inside /etc/ ...
Nope, I mean their human body know how to photosynthesis since I dont know how they raise a family with this kind of profit margin. Btw, what I want to say is, I disagree with the greedy think, at least in LET (and other green forums).
I personally helped a small local company get rid of 774.12 USD a year of shared hosting. The reason they reach me is because the Host ask for > 1000USD per year.
YABS on the $4 plan:
I'm impressed with the quality of the site and the VPS, if performance stays like this you've got a new customer.
Isolation is always a concern and is something we have actively worked with since day 1. You can never know for absolutely certain, even conceivably with KVM, that there is not some esoteric zero-day waiting to happen, but that's just part of life.
I suspect our core audience is not the user you have in mind. Our most requested OS has always been CentOS as people want to run Cpanel. We haven't really had much noise/requests for other operating systems, honestly. Your comments are noted however - I just think we as a team need to "identify" a clear-cut market before investing in supporting another OS.
What sort of price point and specifications would you suggest? I would be very interested to know! Also several of you mention Wireguard, I'll definitely be getting one of our engineers to go through that process and see what's involved.
I am really quite unsure what you are refering to. I'd love for you to give us a spin and report back if you experience the same problems with us. This is the first time I hear of any shenanigans happening in /etc - but I'll have to check with an engineer whether I'm just out of the loop here somehow.
Nice, thanks for that!
Hahaha ok I got it And fair enough - it pays to take a good look around!
Oh and PS: Our Pro profiles are obviously much faster than this (better cpu/ram/nvme drives etc)
this would be nice thank you
i do not want robe providers useless about time (ask create server for trial and then cancel). When i see bench before then i can decide that i want / need it or not
yes exactly this and these CPUs (Ryzen) i have on the mind:
One thing are results from benchmarks and other real experinces with concrete software:
most my software what i often use run on 1-2 cores Ryzens significantly more smooth and fast as with multiple core xeons. Ryzen is able bust modified and robust Woocommerces (what are unbelievable greedy for resources and CPU and able eat 100% of more xeons cores), are on the Ryzen running a much better, faster and with a lot less load. In short Ryzen is really miracle CPU in comparison with Xeons in performance.