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Job Offer: Outside Sales Representative (Spry Servers) - Page 2
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Job Offer: Outside Sales Representative (Spry Servers)

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Comments

  • This smells as bad as Amazon Mechanical Turk tasks

  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep

    @Unbelievable said:
    Honestly you are trying to find someone down on their luck and take advantage of them with a lopsided deal Mr. CEO where they bust their ass answering chats and sending mailchimps into a market you have not penetrated in the hopes of finding clients in risky markets that wont chargeback. If they do chargeback - too bad, so sad, commission clawback time. Yes, we all all understand the deal you are offering.

    Jesus Christ man. I HAVE penetration into the market, and mailchimp and chart are simply tools that will provide starting leads.

    Once again, there are details I'm not disclosing to those not applying. I will however, say chargebacks will not necessarily result in commission clawbacks.

    People are free to make their own decision. I'm not looking to take advantage of anyone.

    I'm done defending myself to you troll.

  • ChievoChievo Member

    @SpryServers_Tab said:

    @Chievo said:

    @Unbelievable said:
    It's still 100% risk to contractor and zero risk to you (with minimal outlay for a proforma contract)

    He is a CEO. A businessman !!! OMG

    Thank you for understanding this. :tongue:

    @SpryServers_Tab said:

    @Unbelievable said:

    @SpryServers_Tab said:

    @Unbelievable said:
    It's still 100% risk to contractor and zero risk to you (with minimal outlay for a proforma contract)

    Your point is?

    I'm not forcing anyone to do it. Of course I'm going to minimize my risk.

    It's a fools errand to pursue anything without equitable risk - I can virtually guarantee someone at target, walmart, amazon, wendys, dominos, pizzahut - would out earn this job and have less personal risk.

    I don't disagree with you about pursuing things without equitable risk. There's plenty of risk that's taken. However, minimizing risk is also a big part of success.

    Success ......

  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep

    @WebProject said:

    @SpryServers_Tab said:

    @Nyr said:

    @SpryServers_Tab said:

    Job is 100% commission based.

    So this is an affiliate program, not a job offer. And certainly illegal in lots of Western countries, maybe not in the Land of the Free?

    No, it's considered a job here in the US. It's actually the most common type of sales job here.

    We also have an "affiliate" program, however that's completely different than this offer.

    Still affiliate and no such jobs in UK or US. Read the other companies job descriptions before tell the rest here as it will be basic pay package (at least minimal wage!) + sales commissions + benefits + holidays pay.

    You're absolutely wrong. There are PLENTY of jobs that are based on 100% commission in the US.

  • UnbelievableUnbelievable Member
    edited May 2020

    Not a troll - just can smell a bad deal when it's presented. You aren't hiring, you aren't offering a salary. All you are offering is hopes and dreams for someone who has nothing. For them I hope the company doesn't burst and servers walk off in the night. They are stuck with minimal return for effort spend that never will equal a regular part time job/side hustle with companies that hire as W2. And you do have no risk and you know it. Contract with 5 desperate people - let them fight it out- keep the best, cancel the other 4. The game is as old as time. Be more inventive, be more creative, be aware people arent gullible as they used to be.

    Thanked by 2armandorg james50a
  • You all need to chill out.
    He clearly said its a 1099 job. That means he gives you money for work done. Its called a contract. As a contractor - you can work for Spry and 1000s of different companies at the same time if you wish.
    You can one day wake up, say "fuck it" and quit. Same for him - he can tell you to fuck off and you're gone. Because this contract allows for that.
    If you are looking for benefits, W2, sick leave, someone to pay your SS and whatnot - this is obviously not a job for you.
    This is NOT a full time job.
    I fail to see why people are outraged here.

    Thanked by 1SpryServers_Tab
  • ChievoChievo Member

    @Unbelievable said:
    Not a troll - just can smell a bad deal when it's presented. You aren't hiring, you aren't offering a salary. All you are offering is hopes and dreams for someone who has nothing. For them I hope the company doesn't burst and servers walk off in the night. They are stuck with minimal return for effort spend that never will equal a regular part time job/side hustle with companies that hire as W2. And you do have no risk and you know it. Contract with 5 desperate people - let them fight it out- keep the best, cancel the other 4. The game is as old as time. Be more inventive, be more creative, be aware people arent gullible as they used to be.

    I think that he is so succesfull as a CEO and businessman. The company is wellknown.so You are completely wrong. This offer is priceless. In fact if I were you i would even pay him 7000€ per month only To learn and being part of such enterprise. The Key question is that having such experience in your CV would open new business doors. Be intelligent this offer is 1 per life. Do not skip the opportunity which is going To change your life. He is the man . the CEO,the businessman .

    @SpryServers_Tab said:

    @Chievo said:

    @Unbelievable said:
    It's still 100% risk to contractor and zero risk to you (with minimal outlay for a proforma contract)

    He is a CEO. A businessman !!! OMG

    Thank you for understanding this. :tongue:

    You are N° 1 Mr.CEO . Your company is great.

    Thanked by 1SpryServers_Tab
  • UnbelievableUnbelievable Member
    edited May 2020

    @t0ny0 but he only gives you money for completed sales. There are many facets of that that are out of your control as a 1099, thus making the deal risky and actual payment to the contractor minimal. Contractor take home is not solely contingent on job production (like most contractor jobs), but is contingent on qualified leads being supplied, company not splitting leads among desperate piranhas etc. Company not performing resulting in chargebacks, etc. Many things influence takehome that are atypical for this position compared to other contracting positions. The fact that its "part time", spare time which has zero meaning in determining its a contractor can't obscure the fact that its a totally shit deal with 100% of the risk on the prospective contractor.

    By the way, most states are "fuck it" states and either company or employee can terminate at any time. Has no applicability to this deal. You are not working for spry, you are working for your own entity and contracting services. So yes, you can work for other companies and he cant prohibit it- thats part of the deal with being an actual contractor and passing the test for true contract status in IRS audit (among other rules)

  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited May 2020

    @Chievo said:
    only To learn and being part of such enterprise

    hurr durr

    I’m not here to judge the main “job offer,” but: this is merely a criticism towards the “omg I get paid in experrrience” logic.

  • ChievoChievo Member

    @doghouch said:

    @Chievo said:
    only To learn and being part of such enterprise

    For the same reason why unpaid internships are illegal, you can see why certain countries have minimum salaries — even for contractors.

    I’m not here to judge the main “job offer” — this is merely a criticism towards the “omg I get paid in experrrience” logic.

    For sure . Everyone has a básic salary+ bonus scheme.

  • @Unbelievable said:
    @t0ny0 but he only gives you money for completed sales. There are many facets of that that are out of your control as a 1099, thus making the deal risky and actual payment to the contractor minimal. Contractor take home is not solely contingent on job production (like most contractor jobs), but is contingent on qualified leads being supplied, company not splitting leads among desperate piranhas etc. Company not performing resulting in chargebacks, etc. Many things influence takehome that are atypical for this position compared to other contracting positions. The fact that its "part time", spare time which has zero meaning in determining its a contractor can't obscure the fact that its a totally shit deal with 100% of the risk on the prospective contractor.

    By the way, most states are "fuck it" states and either company or employee can terminate at any time. Has no applicability to this deal. You are not working for spry, you are working for your own entity and contracting services. So yes, you can work for other companies and he cant prohibit it- thats part of the deal with being an actual contractor and passing the test for true contract status in IRS audit (among other rules)

    I have worked as a contractor most of my adult life. I get paid for a job when its done. Or I get paid an hourly fee, IF this is what the client (the person hiring me) and me agree upon.
    If job is not done - I don't get paid. Period.

    Same way when I hire a contractor - he gets paid once my fence is painted, for example. If he doesn't - he gets no money for that.

    And again - same when I hire a subcontractor to work on a project that I need help on. He gets paid when I get paid, which in both occasions is when and only if the job is done.

    As a contractor - the risk is 100% on me and my company, hence why I also pay for insurance.

    As someone who hires a contractor - I expect the liability to be on them (hence why most of my customers require a liability insurance, workers comp, bond insurance, etc).

    And to end this - I don't get base pay as a contractor. I am NOT an employee. I am just a contractor. The contract has a price on it, and I pick and choose what I want to do, and what I can pass on.

    Now if Tab said he is hiring someone as a full time w2 employee - thats a different story, and it would be illegal to not cover all the additional things like health insurance, workers comp, sick days and base pay.

    Again - this is clearly listed as a contractor job. Take it or leave it. There is no need to argue about what YOU expect from it.

    Thanked by 1SpryServers_Tab
  • UnbelievableUnbelievable Member
    edited May 2020

    He is not HIRING anyone. He is not PAYING anyone. He is contracting for services which are judged to be adequate when a sale is completed. Again, contractor doesn't control the whole process, so in this case its a fools errand as contractor eventual compensation is dependent on things that are out of his control. This is not a normal contractor agreement. Like you I have been a contractor for 22 years. It is the Height of stupidity to take a contract where the compensation is contingent on others doing their job.

  • WebProjectWebProject Host Rep, Veteran
    edited May 2020

    @t0ny0 said:
    You all need to chill out.
    He clearly said its a 1099 job. That means he gives you money for work done. Its called a contract. As a contractor - you can work for Spry and 1000s of different companies at the same time if you wish.
    You can one day wake up, say "fuck it" and quit. Same for him - he can tell you to fuck off and you're gone. Because this contract allows for that.
    If you are looking for benefits, W2, sick leave, someone to pay your SS and whatnot - this is obviously not a job for you.
    This is NOT a full time job.
    I fail to see why people are outraged here.

    So he can’t name it the job offer as it’s freelance project without any contract or possible payment!

  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep
    edited May 2020

    @WebProject said:

    @t0ny0 said:
    You all need to chill out.
    He clearly said its a 1099 job. That means he gives you money for work done. Its called a contract. As a contractor - you can work for Spry and 1000s of different companies at the same time if you wish.
    You can one day wake up, say "fuck it" and quit. Same for him - he can tell you to fuck off and you're gone. Because this contract allows for that.
    If you are looking for benefits, W2, sick leave, someone to pay your SS and whatnot - this is obviously not a job for you.
    This is NOT a full time job.
    I fail to see why people are outraged here.

    So he can’t name it the job offer as it’s freelance project without any contract or possible payment!

    Jesus, I don't know how many times I have to say there is a contract (you are a CONTRACTOR after all) and you WILL be paid.

    The job is sales. You get paid when the job is completed. You make sales, you get paid. Period.

    Thanked by 1NobodyInteresting
  • HostSlickHostSlick Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 2020

    @Neoon said:
    Well, there is a reason why you see not much job offers on LET.
    Most of them get destroyed due to either low payment or not even telling you how much you will get paid.

    They (Users here) are complaining about low payments and such. . Yet they are supporting low payments by wanting only cheapest and best offers possible. It's hilarious in my opinion.

    Staff/Human resources is a big cost factor in a company.

    Sorry that's the result of being cheap.

    thanks.

  • 1gservers1gservers Member, Patron Provider

    This is perfectly normal (and legal) in the US. Most sales positions are structured similar with compensation based on performance. I think the only thing that @SpryServers_Tab could have phrased differently is by not calling it a 'Job Offer'. If this type of arrangement doesn't work for you, then don't apply. However, it has the potential for you to make far more than a minimum wage job.

  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep

    @1gservers said:
    This is perfectly normal (and legal) in the US. Most sales positions are structured similar with compensation based on performance. I think the only thing that @SpryServers_Tab could have phrased differently is by not calling it a 'Job Offer'. If this type of arrangement doesn't work for you, then don't apply. However, it has the potential for you to make far more than a minimum wage job.

    Yeah, in hindsight I could've phrased it differently. Didn't know there would be so much outrage. :tongue:

    Like you said, it does have the opportunity to make well above minimum wage. While there is no base salary, there are also no quotas or caps to commission.

    Thanked by 11gservers
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    image

    Just stop with the ignorance and LowEndLawyering.

    100% commission jobs are extremely common in US, and indeed many parts of the Western world. Indeed, they are the norm for sales positions.

    I could name twenty industries where all compensation is from commissions and there is no other compensation.

    1gservers said: could have phrased differently is by not calling it a 'Job Offer'.

    Why? It's a job offer.

    t0ny0 said: You all need to chill out.

    Exactly right.

    Unbelievable said: Not a troll - just can smell a bad deal when it's presented. You aren't hiring, you aren't offering a salary. All you are offering is hopes and dreams for someone who has nothing. For them I hope the company doesn't burst and servers walk off in the night. They are stuck with minimal return for effort spend that never will equal a regular part time job/side hustle with companies that hire as W2. And you do have no risk and you know it. Contract with 5 desperate people - let them fight it out- keep the best, cancel the other 4. The game is as old as time. Be more inventive, be more creative, be aware people arent gullible as they used to be.

    What on earth are you talking about? I don't know anything about Spry Servers, but hiring someone on a 100% commission basis is completely legitimate and offering it as a 1099 position is completely legitimate. Gullibility, games, etc. has nothing to do with it.

    W2 positions are positions where the employer dictates when you work, where you work, and provides you with the facilities to work. 1099 positions are positions where you're hired on a performance basis and can work however/whenever/wherever (if appropriate) to achieve the work. Sales jobs are very often 1099 jobs.

  • james50ajames50a Member
    edited May 2020

    random article from doing some googling (not verfied not legal advice) but seems to state that no this kind of stuff is illegal in the usa if your calling it a job and not what it is which is an affiliate program "Commission-only pay does not exclude workers from receiving minimum wage for the hours they work". Personally i dont like this thread as if not put down would just open the doors for every provider to spam their affiliate programs (which all of them have) while not offering anything reasonable in return. In addition my personal opinion this is its scummy to try to attract people to being an "independent" contractor to avoid paying a fair wage and other rules and regulations that would normally apply and exist for a reason. The contractor position is supposed to be for people running their own buisness, not for company's to treat potential workers like disposable condoms....
    https://smallbusiness.chron.com/rights-commissiononly-paid-workers-44625.html

  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep
    edited May 2020

    @james50a said:
    random article from doing some googling (not verfied not legal advice) but seems to state that no this kind of stuff is illegal in the usa if your calling it a job and not what it is which is an affiliate program "Commission-only pay does not exclude workers from receiving minimum wage for the hours they work". Personally i dont like this thread as if not put down would just open the doors for every provider to spam their affiliate programs (which all of them have) while not offering anything reasonable in return. In addition my personal opinion this is its scummy to try to attract people to being an "independent" contractor to avoid paying a fair wage and other rules and regulations that would normally apply and exist for a reason. The contractor position is supposed to be for people running their own buisness, not for company's to treat potential workers like disposable condoms....
    https://smallbusiness.chron.com/rights-commissiononly-paid-workers-44625.html

    That article doesn't cover contractors. Contracting IS A JOB.

    From that very same article - even if I called them employees and NOT contractors:

    "Outside Sales Exemption

    If you regularly sell your employer's products or services in a place away from your company's property, your employer can use the outside sales exemption. This exemption prevents you from being subject to FLSA regulations including minimum wage and overtime. Examples of workers subject to the outside sales exemption include door-to-door salesmen, pharmaceutical representatives and certain delivery drivers who sell their company's services or products."

  • tmyerstmyers Member
    edited May 2020

    You have two flaws in your own post (and you even included it?)

    1.) Outside sales, literally means outside. Meeting face to face. The law allows for some selling to be done from a fixed residence, but not the majority. Thus you literally don't meet the definition of outside sales.

    2.) You're asking employees to sit on live chat and utilize mailchimp to generate leads. Again, this does not qualify as outside sales. You would need to have the employee clock in and pay minimum wage during the period they're using a lead generation tool.

    I feel for anyone considering this sort of position. Not only is the outside sales exemption antiquated anyway (any employer who has plans beyond a pump and dump will pay someone to represent their company), but this just smells of someone trying to take advantage of a terrible hiring market.

    Sources:

    1.) https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/29/541.502
    2.) https://sebastianmillerlaw.com/employees-sales-development-positions-paid-overtime/

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    james50a said: random article from doing some googling (not verfied not legal advice) but seems to state that no this kind of stuff is illegal in the usa if your calling it a job and not what it is which is an affiliate program "Commission-only pay does not exclude workers from receiving minimum wage for the hours they work".

    Yes. It. Does.

    Example: I have a friend who's in insurance sales. He is 100% commission. Pulls in $xxx,xxx per year (long story how I know, but it's true) but if he doesn't sell, he doesn't get a penny. These kinds of jobs are very common. I have numerous friends and colleagues who sell on a commission-only basis. There's no minimum wage guarantee for them.

    And they wouldn't have it any other way. They get freedom to sell as they wish. They can deduct all their expenses - and that's huge when you consider car costs, travel costs, etc. They get all kinds of favorable tax treatments. Some people love that relationship.

    I once had a job that was 100% commission, selling for a large national company with thousands of employees. I was 1099'd and so were a couple dozen other salespeople. These men and women were career salespeople who had been working that way for decades.

    The vast majority of sales jobs are commission only.

    james50a said: In addition my personal opinion this is its scummy to try to attract people to being an "independent" contractor to avoid paying a fair wage and other rules and regulations that would normally apply and exist for a reason.

    It is not scummy in the least. You are just completely ignorant in this area.

  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep
    edited May 2020

    @raindog308 said:

    james50a said: random article from doing some googling (not verfied not legal advice) but seems to state that no this kind of stuff is illegal in the usa if your calling it a job and not what it is which is an affiliate program "Commission-only pay does not exclude workers from receiving minimum wage for the hours they work".

    Yes. It. Does.

    Example: I have a friend who's in insurance sales. He is 100% commission. Pulls in $xxx,xxx per year (long story how I know, but it's true) but if he doesn't sell, he doesn't get a penny. These kinds of jobs are very common. I have numerous friends and colleagues who sell on a commission-only basis. There's no minimum wage guarantee for them.

    And they wouldn't have it any other way. They get freedom to sell as they wish. They can deduct all their expenses - and that's huge when you consider car costs, travel costs, etc. They get all kinds of favorable tax treatments. Some people love that relationship.

    I once had a job that was 100% commission, selling for a large national company with thousands of employees. I was 1099'd and so were a couple dozen other salespeople. These men and women were career salespeople who had been working that way for decades.

    The vast majority of sales jobs are commission only.

    james50a said: In addition my personal opinion this is its scummy to try to attract people to being an "independent" contractor to avoid paying a fair wage and other rules and regulations that would normally apply and exist for a reason.

    It is not scummy in the least. You are just completely ignorant in this area.

    Yeah, I have many friends that have made an excellent living doing commission only contract sales. Several for ridiculously large VoIP providers and ISPs whom I won't name. It's the only kind of job they want.

    **To touch on the live chat and MailChimp. This is NOT REQUIRED. These are optional, and only to help the contractor find leads if he/she wishes.

  • hzrhzr Member

    raindog308 said: I once had a job that was 100% commission, selling for a large national company with thousands of employees. I was 1099'd and so were a couple dozen other salespeople. These men and women were career salespeople who had been working that way for decades.

    I anal, but If cutco/vector marketing is legal in the US, then this thread can't be any worse.

  • @HostSlick said:
    They (Users here) are complaining about low payments and such. . Yet they are supporting low payments by wanting only cheapest and best offers possible. It's hilarious in my opinion.

    Staff/Human resources is a big cost factor in a company.

    Sorry that's the result of being cheap.

    thanks.

    I think it's hilarious that you have the gall to insult the users here for their "cheapness,' given that a plagiarism test shows you copied about 47% of your TOS from HG word for word. Perhaps that suggests that you yourself are too cheap to hire a lawyer, no?

    Don't make blanket statements, and don't insult LET members.

    Sources:

    • "You are allocated a monthly bandwidth allowance. This allowance varies depending on the hosting package you purchase..."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200523041836/https://hostslick.com/clients/knowledgebase/3/Terms-of-Service.html (clause 5)

    https://web.archive.org/web/20120619185845/http://www.hostgator.com/tos/tos.php (clause 8)


    • "Resellers are responsible for supporting their clients. HostSlick does not provide support to our Reseller's Clients..."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200523041836/https://hostslick.com/clients/knowledgebase/3/Terms-of-Service.html (clause 7)

    https://web.archive.org/web/20120619185845/http://www.hostgator.com/tos/tos.php (clause 10)

    Thanked by 2muffin CasualCanvas
  • @HostSlick said:

    @Neoon said:
    Well, there is a reason why you see not much job offers on LET.
    Most of them get destroyed due to either low payment or not even telling you how much you will get paid.

    They (Users here) are complaining about low payments and such. . Yet they are supporting low payments by wanting only cheapest and best offers possible. It's hilarious in my opinion.

    Staff/Human resources is a big cost factor in a company.

    Sorry that's the result of being cheap.

    thanks.

    So

    Why r u here

    Too expensive

  • sithrebel15sithrebel15 Member
    edited May 2020

    @SpryServers_Tab said:
    Just to be clear:

    In the United States, both contractors and outside sales rep positions are exempted from minimum wage.

    not really

    "However, Section 13(a)(1) of the FLSA provides an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for employees employed as bona fide executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees. Section 13(a)(1) and Section 13(a)(17) also exempt certain computer employees. To qualify for exemption, employees generally must meet certain tests regarding their job duties and be paid on a salary basis at not less than $684* per week. Job titles do not determine exempt status. In order for an exemption to apply, an employee’s specific job duties and salary must meet all the requirements of the Department’s regulations."

  • NyrNyr Community Contributor, Veteran

    Just to point out why this offer sounds ridiculous for some: here in Spain the contractor would need to pay 283€ every month (3000€ per year!) in taxes and social security with this scheme, even if there is no profit.

    I understand that the job market is very different in other parts of the would, but maybe that's why a lot of people jumped at you.

  • edited May 2020

    @sithrebel15 said:

    @SpryServers_Tab said:
    Just to be clear:

    In the United States, both contractors and outside sales rep positions are exempted from minimum wage.

    not really

    "However, Section 13(a)(1) of the FLSA provides an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for employees employed as bona fide executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees. Section 13(a)(1) and Section 13(a)(17) also exempt certain computer employees. To qualify for exemption, employees generally must meet certain tests regarding their job duties and be paid on a salary basis at not less than $684* per week. Job titles do not determine exempt status. In order for an exemption to apply, an employee’s specific job duties and salary must meet all the requirements of the Department’s regulations."

    You keep mentioning"employees". He keeps mentioning "contractors". You see where im going with this?

    Thanked by 1SpryServers_Tab
This discussion has been closed.