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A headsup about German Provider Policies - Page 2
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A headsup about German Provider Policies

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Comments

  • @HostSlick said:
    Im German Provider but our Servers are in Netherlands. For many reasons, one is that Power in NL costs only half then in Germany. Germany has the most expensive power in EU.

    We mostly don't enforce so much bullcrap such as contract and old fashioned cancelation policies of 30 days on most services.

    However some bigger customers who pay hundreds of euros per month or even more we have setup contracts etc.

    Doing the German way let's you better plan and do your business and keeps bad customers away. Nice

    Have been drinking coffee before with German Police multiple times because of some customers have been doing bad things like terror. They are not really a pain to deal with though.

    Nicely said. I also love the flexibility Vultr/Lunanode offers but I also like my german providers for reasons. In which in NL DC are u btw? :)

  • HostSlickHostSlick Member, Patron Provider
    edited March 2020

    @Ympker said:

    @HostSlick said:
    Im German Provider but our Servers are in Netherlands. For many reasons, one is that Power in NL costs only half then in Germany. Germany has the most expensive power in EU.

    We mostly don't enforce so much bullcrap such as contract and old fashioned cancelation policies of 30 days on most services.

    However some bigger customers who pay hundreds of euros per month or even more we have setup contracts etc.

    Doing the German way let's you better plan and do your business and keeps bad customers away. Nice

    Have been drinking coffee before with German Police multiple times because of some customers have been doing bad things like terror. They are not really a pain to deal with though.

    Nicely said. I also love the flexibility Vultr/Lunanode offers but I also like my german providers for reasons. In which in NL DC are u btw? :)

    We are in the Lelystad Datacenter. With our own Equipment connected by our own Juniper Networking equipment.

    https://cellnextelecom.nl/en/about-cellnex/locations/datacenter-lelystad/

    The Servers are very high in the Sky. Cloud :wink:

    Dedicated servers, VPS, Webhosting offered from there. On request we can do Colocation also

    Thanked by 1Ympker
  • so true! this is my unhappy ending with netcup

    I used for the last 4 years netcup VPS services, unfortunately, I had to look for another option due to the frequent IPv6 issues they are facing but if you only need IPv4 and need to test something fast and cheap, is worth giving a try, just be careful what plan/contract you get, once you are in they just want $$$ no matter if services are up or unavailable.

    The Bad:

    Critical IPv6 issues, if you only need IPv4 not a problem.
    Not recommended for production sites (support team may block your services)
    Being a German company you are bound to weird leasing contracts/notice periods, you may end paying more at the end.

    The Good:

    Very cheap, lots of CPU/storage for a very competitive price.
    Use your own RAW image, I would say that this is one of the best futures they offer and important not to confuse it with booting and do a clean installing from an ISO (like Hetzner), they besides allowing that, also allow you to upload a RAW image and boot directly from it like with AWS, or GCE, because of this, is totally worth giving them a try.
    Basic web console, enough and “easy” for must of the things.

    I never had to contact support, everything worked as expected including IPv6, in contrast, their support team contacted me after disabling my VPS’s since they thought I was doing some kind of DOS, what happened is that I forwarded more traffic to some VPS (approximately 500 req/second) and from that VPS to another’s within my same account, they didn’t even check that all traffic/IP ranges where within my account until I had to explain to them in order to enable back the services.

    Murphy's law

    I had to move a website, I was aware of the previous incident (blocking my account because they thought I was doing a DOS), but because of some "good offers" (be very careful with this, they play nasty), I decided to go all the way with netcup, for my bad luck starting this year they did major changes on their infrastructure affecting mainly the IPv6 network, I created some support tickets regarding this issue, the support team confirmed the problem and tried their best, but after two weeks having the same problem/no service I had to move out, I was told problem was going to be fixed in a couple of days but that extended for weeks. (still the date I have no confirmation that problem has been solved)

    You pay what you get for

    Because of the technical issues, I had to move out my services to a more reliable provider, for the remaining VPS (> 10) I asked the billing department if they could please refund or in any case merge all my remaining time into a single VM so that at least I could have a semi-functional VM (only IPv4).

    They didn’t care and I had to fall back for a PayPal dispute asking for a partial refund of what I paid off or in any case to don’t refund anything but give the chance to merge the remaining time since as explained having a service that is not fully operational (no IPv6) is useless.

    PayPal declined the claim due to the fact that the service initially was provided and a partial refund because of type of service doesn't apply, their only advice was trying to explain again to the merchant the issue in the hope they could do something.

    Unfortunately during this process, netcup disabled access to all the VM’s without further notice and asked for a “suspension fee" to re-enable the services, all this could be due to the fact PayPal freeze/unfreeze the money during the dispute and the billing system from netcup went crazy, I had to explain multiple times the sales team about the issue but must of the time in a mix of German/English they just reply "no pay, no service".

    They indeed sent letters by post asking for the payments, something that after weeks the sales department reply that was going to check the issue with more detail. in all this time services have been off/disabled time passing, they just don't care.

    These guys are very greedy, instead of applying the same principles into them and focus more on fixing the problems, they will just try to take any excuse to make more easy money.

    heads up!

    As mentioned in the posts, many German providers have particular and unique policies, the contract model they follow is like the ones for real state, some indeed ask for notice periods and no way to cancel, they have rules that you may not know them until an incident happens, so before launching your next project do your research, don't take it lightly.

    The good news is that there are some providers that are improving, learning, and adapting to new markets, it will just take some time but it seems they are on a good track.

  • sgheghelesgheghele Member
    edited June 2020

    @headsup_netcup said:
    so true! this is my unhappy ending with netcup

    This is also how they keep their low prices. They count on people cancelling early. But their rules are also pretty clearly stated everywhere when you sign for them.

    Their VPS are however on a hourly billing now. In their own style, of course. For testing one, I had to pay the monthly fee of 2.69€, test it, destroy it and they made a bank transfer of 2.50€ or something to refund the unused time.

    Thanked by 2webcraft Ympker
  • zormalzormal Member

    You really need to be careful with the small print in those contracts. Even after I paid late fees to NetCup (many times the original, admittedly very low, yearly price), they invoiced me again with a large late fee.

    I opened a ticket to ask for a reclamation as the contract only included extra fees for losses, and I didn't feel there were any losses greater than the late fees I already paid for. Netcup claimed that the invoice was for the work they are now doing processing my reclamation request for said invoice. After notifying them that billing for the possibility of future reclamations is not legal, they changed their story to be billing for losses due to sending late notification emails by hand.

    I wrote to them that 1) I can see the emails are from their automated billing system and don't incur losses and that 2) they already charged me for those notifications in the form of late fees, and are now by their own words double billing late fees.

    At this point they'd already responded with personal attacks and threats of lawsuit, and went back to claiming losses from the reclamation exchange. I reiterated that I will not be paying for invoice, unless they clarify what the charge is for and show what valid losses I am paying for, as per the terms of our contract. They answered me that "Our system is running automated and we cannot stop the process" and asked me again to pay the invoice. I answered with a repeat request for either a clarification of losses with a valid invoice or waiving the invoice.

    I later received mail from a collection agency for the original invoice, to which I replied it was already paid. I then received more mail from a lawfirm (I think), including the paid sum, fees for losses and additional collection expenses, to which I answered that I paid the original invoice and late fees, but would need to see a valid reason for any additional losses I'm being billed for.

    Perhaps there's a language barrier that is partly to blame, but the ToS I read were in English and I feel like NetCup didn't even stick to their own terms. We will not be doing business together in the future. I'll pay companies with saner billing policies.

  • LeviLevi Member

    Just avoid netcup at all cost. There is no reason to use their services when there is Hetzner.

  • @LTniger said:
    Just avoid netcup at all cost. There is no reason to use their services when there is Hetzner.

    Beg to disagree. They are less expensive than Hetzner and, in some cases, have a better network. One just needs to read well what they sign. Their current root servers are also killing it.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • webcraftwebcraft Member
    edited June 2020

    @zormal said:
    I'll pay companies with saner billing policies.

    You could have known before if you read what you signed. Honestly, if you stick to the ToS it's easy going with them. They're very accurate.

  • YmpkerYmpker Member

    @sgheghele said:

    @headsup_netcup said:
    so true! this is my unhappy ending with netcup

    This is also how they keep their low prices. They count on people cancelling early. But their rules are also pretty clearly stated everywhere when you sign for them.

    Their VPS are however on a hourly billing now. In their own style, of course. For testing one, I had to pay the monthly fee of 2.69€, test it, destroy it and they made a bank transfer of 2.50€ or something to refund the unused time.

    Their hourly billing is such a pita. I remember going nuts back then. Was so happy when they first announced it.

    Thanked by 1sgheghele
  • serv_eeserv_ee Member
    edited June 2020

    I got into trouble with the .at registrar a while ago. I forgot to renew my domain after year one (changed my email long before and forgot that I even had it) and only found out I had it when I got an letter from an collection agency. That damn domain cost me $120 with fees.

  • zormalzormal Member

    @webcraft said:

    @zormal said:
    I'll pay companies with saner billing policies.

    You could have known before if you read what you signed. Honestly, if you stick to the ToS it's easy going with them. They're very accurate.

    Except for when they billed me against their own ToS and claimed nonexistant expenses ;)

    But yeah, without my original late payment, it probably wouldn't have come to that.

  • LeviLevi Member

    sgheghele said: They are less expensive than Hetzner

    Costs are equal or bigger with netcup when you eventually fail to "comply" with their terms and "late fees" will start pushing you via collection agencies. Why should I risk with such problems when I could just do something more productive in that time? Netcup is toxic and they must change, not customer.

    If hetzner can do easy billing, than all other German providers can do the same.

  • LTniger said: Costs are equal or bigger with netcup

    Not really. Some of their VPSs are cheaper (e.g., the entry one is 2.69 vs. 2.96 with Hetzner). They use EPYC cpus like Hetzner. Their root servers are all way better than Hetzner in terms of characteristics (excluding SSD vs NVMe but it depends on what you look for) and cheaper (10.40 vs 23.68 with Hetzner on a very similar server). This with their monthly prices, so no yearly lock in. It is even cheaper with yearly price.

    when you eventually fail to "comply" with their terms

    Well, do not fail to comply with what you sign for. There is no pity for ignorance in Germany, when you sign a contract.

    That said,

    If hetzner can do easy billing, than all other German providers can do the same.

    Yes, they can do easy billing, I would love if they did, but they won't.

    Perhaps, this is what they exploit in their very cheap prices. They might count on distracted people who then just cancel, do not use their remaining time, and they assign the resources on a new customer.

    The gist of it: they are anal and annoying but transparent. If you take time in reading the conditions, all is stated there. It is forbidden in Germany to have hidden fees in contracts. On the other hand, the customer is expected to comply what they sign for.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • @LTniger said:
    Just avoid netcup at all cost. There is no reason to use their services when there is Hetzner.

    Definitely true, The missing thing in Hetzner is the option to upload/use your own raw images (something I have to say was the only reason was I was sticking to netcup), they currently only allow to install a VPS botting from an ISO.

  • fLoofLoo Member

    But we have Schnitzel and the Autobahn, cmon guys!

  • amadex1337amadex1337 Member
    edited June 2020

    This is what you get from netcup if you want clean IP for a newly created vps: https://ibb.co/SKpGYVs

    Thanked by 1Edmond
  • pikepike Veteran

    @soviet you could just have asked them before you order something. They would've told you some blocks are blacklisted and they cannot guarantee you to get a clean address.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • EdmondEdmond Member

    @soviet said:
    This is what you get from netcup if you want clean IP for a newly created vps: https://ibb.co/SKpGYVs

    And they think handing out blacklisted IP addresses is acceptable practice? Shouldn’t they have billed the last customer for the time they used to clean up they mess, including delisting the IP address from blacklist?

    I mean they seem to love creating invoices for all sorts of fees.... unless maybe they charge them but not actually do anything!

  • AlwaysSkintAlwaysSkint Member
    edited June 2020

    All this just reinforces my desire to stay clear of German providers. :-|
    @LTniger
    LMFTFY - grr (why do even native English speakers have trouble with this? Accent? Rhetorical)

    If hetzner can do easy billing, than then all other German providers can do the same.

    Still wouldn't persuade me to Hetz.

  • If you’re from USA, UK or Russia you should have right of way here 😏

  • @pike said:
    @soviet you could just have asked them before you order something. They would've told you some blocks are blacklisted and they cannot guarantee you to get a clean address.

    I would be mighty pissed if I got locked into one of their 6/12mo contracts with a bad ip.

    But, then they have that generous German no-questions-asked 14 day right of refusal/refund.

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