Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


dedi & VPS hosting primer - Page 2
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

dedi & VPS hosting primer

2»

Comments

  • cociucociu Member
    edited November 2019

    somik said: @cociu I would advice you guys not to fight on open forum, but I guess @dedicatserver_ro did fire the first shots...

    i am not fire with nobody , i ask him very friendly to look in his garden and let me in peace .. is follow all my comments so i respond. Who can "a nobody person for me" to know the cost of someone (in my case not eaven my employers don`t know all the costs) , at least is make the smart to know because hi know nothing . Never mind ... she is the best in Romania do not forgott!

    What hi don`t want to understand hi pay colocation and a huge amount for upstream (at least i think because the providers what hi mentionated is not cheap in Ro) --- i do not pay ...

    also i am in Oradea and liberty global dont have here many clients so yes i had the posibility to play with the price for the line . Also i am top consumator in oradea for internet (wich is not his case in Bucharest) so yes i have some privilage but the "smart guy dont see this"

    I have cheap price for electrical cost (closed a contract in 2017 before the price was go up) , and i have a client colocated here witch is sell energy in romania ( clear mr " Gabriel" is ony dreams for such clients)

    ETC etc.

    Thanked by 2dahartigan poisson
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @dahartigan said:
    Perhaps his interest in you is purely romantic?

    But ... but ... he is 600 km away from @cociu!

    @dedicatserver_ro

    Sorry, but when I (not a Romanian and far, far away) can find out that what you said is wrong, then I wonder how you, being a Romanian and living and working there and designing and or building colos can be so far off.
    I suggest you stop hunting @cociu. Let's keep the discussion here related to my OP.

  • @somik said:

    @angstrom said:
    I guess that the cost of DDoS protection (if DDoS protection is offered) could be added in this connection

    @jsg said:
    Yes. And they tend to be hefty.

    Wait, i thought the DDOS protection is offered by the DC, is it also provided by network provider?

    Perhaps, but some providers offer opt-in DDoS protection

    Anyway, I was just adding it as a potential additional cost to be taken into consideration (which eventually gets passed on at least in part to the customer)

  • trewqtrewq Administrator, Patron Provider

    @somik said:

    @cociu said:
    cooling , space , people is not so cheap , generator, ups +battery , racks , km of cables, patch ... etc etc. BUT yes once you have all this the server cost is not a huge amount in this days. Also a decent upstream is cost arrownd 100 eur/1gbps (if you buy at least 10gbps) . HE was offer me 6000 dollars for 100gbps

    Damn, thats some expensive bandwidth... Is it more expensive then US or is US bandwidth more expensive?

    Gezz, I can only dream about getting bandwidth that cheap in Australia.

  • dedicatserver_rodedicatserver_ro Member, Host Rep
    edited November 2019

    angstrom said: Perhaps, but some providers offer opt-in DDoS protection

    none from the important one like : Level3,NTT,HE,Cogent....offer DDOS protection

  • dedicatserver_rodedicatserver_ro Member, Host Rep

    Level 3 is the most expensive carrier in the world ( and the best in my opinion ) and yes they offer DDOS protection ,but if you can´t pay one usual 10Gbps conection will you pay for the DDOS ?

  • @dedicatserver_ro is a disgruntled sister perhaps?

  • @trewq said:
    Gezz, I can only dream about getting bandwidth that cheap in Australia.

    We'll, I'm from Singapore, so I understand the feeling...

    Btw, here is what I found on Cloudflare regarding bandwidth costs :

  • As a neutral party, @dedicatserver_ro I will tell you that you are starting to turn me off with your penchant for shitting in whichever thread @cociu goes. I am probably not the only one to feel this way. Of course, you are welcome to continue your stubborn ways, but I tell you honestly that you are bringing more business to @cociu than if you kept quiet. If you are really that keen to help @cociu to grow his business, continue shitting wherever he goes.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • cybertechcybertech Member
    edited November 2019

    The logic of why a provider whines like a pmsing vps customer who didn't get his ticket answered within 5mins instead of working on their Y2K website and product pricing eludes me.

    Thanked by 1dahartigan
  • @poisson said:
    As a neutral party, @dedicatserver_ro I will tell you that you are starting to turn me off with your penchant for shitting in whichever thread @cociu goes. I am probably not the only one to feel this way.

    You're not the only one...

    Of course, you are welcome to continue your stubborn ways, but I tell you honestly that you are bringing more business to @cociu than if you kept quiet. If you are really that keen to help @cociu to grow his business, continue shitting wherever he goes.

    Omg! Maybe @dedicatserver_ro is a secret promoter for @cociu and is playing mind games with us!

    Btw, who the hell is @cociufucksarah ?

  • @somik said:
    Btw, who the hell is @cociufucksarah ?

    I bet @cociu doesn't know because he was too drunk.

    Thanked by 3cociu dahartigan vyas11
  • @poisson said:
    I bet @cociu doesn't know because he was too drunk.

    On a totally seperate note, anyone here got a sister named @sarah?

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited November 2019

    Since the examples given were Europe centric, let me add two three major costs that will also add up. Providers will pass on the costs to the resellers who in turn will pass it down the chain etc.

    Everybody and their dog in India builds DCs in Mumbai or New Delhi area. Hot, humid (and now polluted- factor in air filtration costs). Thus air conditioning costs go through the roof. Typically 30-35 percent of opex. Most urban areas have restrictions on using raw water, so recycling system must be in place. Ecologically sound, operationally very expensive practise.

    Hardware can be leased to reduce capex costs, but opex will kill you. Not to mention diesel generator backup. Using an example to show the cost resulting from lack of reliable electric supply: one amazon warehouse (fulfilment center or goods, not a datacenter) in Delhi area ran on diesel generator for a full year and a half. Costs of operating the diesel generator 24x7 were $213,000 per month at current rates because the grid power was unreliable (this was late 2014/2015, since fixed).

    Third factor- rent. Some DCs in Mumbai operate from buildings within the cities. At @ $5 to $6 per square foot in rent alone, this becomes an extremely expensive proposition.


    I had PM'd parts of the above message in the morning to jsg because I did not want to add noise to their post. Now that this thread is swinging between sanity and insanity like a drunk monkey swinging off a branch, thought of posting here.

  • somik said: Btw, who the hell is @cociufucksarah ?

    As if her name was important. @cociu had countless of them. Cannot keep track of the names, seriously.

  • @poisson said:
    Very valid points, just that it is a wall of text. Most people don't read past 5 lines.

    tl;dr: Most lowend VPS customers do not care which tier the provider's DC is, just like how most people do not care which type of SSL certificate is used, so focus on other things that matter such as hardware, electricity costs and bandwidth if you want to build a successful hosting business.

    That wasn't a wall of text and readability was perfectly fine with paragraphs and bullet points making it really easy to read.

    The Internet parlance you're looking for is a "novel".

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    As I just came across some providers dedi being down due to a kaputt power supply:

    • the correct message would be "... kaputt single power supply"
    • After reading this thread everyone should understand how ridiculously low the saving is when avoiding to have "expensive" dual PS. It's in the pennies per core month and possibly even in just the the penny fraction.

    Risking ones reputation, down time, and more due to cutting corners on n+1 PS is a very bad plan.

    Thanked by 2poisson bikegremlin
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    It just stroke me that I forgot a not small cost factor: WHCMS plus other panel stuff.

    Thanked by 2dahartigan poisson
  • @jsg said:
    It just stroke me that I forgot a not small cost factor: WHCMS plus other panel stuff.

    Serious omission. Hope the stroke wasn't serious.

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @poisson

    Well, it made my hair 0.0042% more gray. Sniff.

  • Do most providers rent rather than own their IP addresses?

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @notty said:
    Do most providers rent rather than own their IP addresses?

    No, based on what I know at least the not small providers bought their IP ranges or if they rented them then on long term contracts.

    Thanked by 1notty
  • @jsg said:
    No, based on what I know at least the not small providers bought their IP ranges or if they rented them then on long term contracts.

    Thanks. With RIPE virtually out of IPs, I was just wondering what the impact might be on low end hosts (and on low end DEALS!) if IP prices rise a lot.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @notty said:
    Thanks. With RIPE virtually out of IPs, I was just wondering what the impact might be on low end hosts (and on low end DEALS!) if IP prices rise a lot.

    Interesting question. The presumably most evident answer would be "yes prices will (continue to) rise".

    But: maybe I'm irreparably optimistic - and I admit that reality seems to contradict me - but I still trust that design issues and decisions will some day be taken away from the mental asylum (that produced e.g. IPv6 as the summit of human insanity) and return to people with an IQ above 100 and some knowledge and experience.

    IF (a big if) my hope turns into reality, it would quickly be found out that not IP4 is the problem hunting us but actually DNS - or more precisely its not being used properly.
    Explanation: There are only very few services that basically must be on a given port, e.g. 80 and THAT leads to a high need of IPs (not alone but it's a major factor).
    So it might be very sensible approach to create a, say, "www" DNS record type that is by default just an 'A' type plus a port, possibly in a well known and easy to parse notation like 'a.b.c.d:port'.
    Of course it would be even better to change the 'A' record itself so that all services could be put at arbitrary ports.

    That would make "fractional IP4" possible where a low end user would get a number of consecutive ports (say 1024 or 8096) of an IP which would allow IPs to be shared for low end VPSs.

    That would allow to extend todays actually needed address space and would also be attractive for ISPs and many of their customers who need a static IP but could usually live well with just, say 4096 ports.

    Technically it shouldn't be big problems as port numbers are part of the header anyway, meaning this scheme would not induce any changes in most of the internet infrastructure. On the software side the changes would also be manageable because one would only need a variable (rather than todays constant (e.g. 'port = 80;')) being set by the name resolution call (which delivers the IP anyway).
    Considering that the browsers are a de facto cartel anyway it would boil down to mainly just Firefox and Chrome making a small change in their engine to allow the new scheme to work and to use it. Plus the name resolver libraries (which are provided by the OS anyway and hence could be easily adapted too). All in all the required changes would be ridiculously tiny compared to the IPv6 clusterf_ck.

    Maybe. But not now. The pain level isn't high enough yet, I guess.

    Thanked by 1bikegremlin
  • This is one of the more Informative posts here.
    I've had it opened in a tab since day0, but decided to wait until I had the reserve brain cycles to parse a big wall of text.

    To jsg's credit, this was a structured essay; I could follow along without fatigue.

  • Easy to follow - nicely structured, well written and simply explained.

    One note - on the tech. support costs. Don't know about Romania, but from my country, Serbia, perspective:

    Internet has allowed many "tech people" to work on-line. Often for foreign companies.
    Also, lots of people migrate to EU and US (Romania, being a part of EU, makes that legal and easy, practically as applying for a job in your own country - so there I suspect it's even more pronounced).

    The result is that pays in the "tech" sector have gone up, significantly. Especially for "high quality" people. So good labour is no longer nearly as cheap. Cheaper than Germany, UK and US? Sure. But not nearly as much as it used to be.

    For small pay you get kids/beginners who are still learning the ropes, or people who are not very good at what they do - most of the time.

  • dicks

This discussion has been closed.