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BudgetNode.com (OP did not cancel Paypal subscription) - Page 2
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BudgetNode.com (OP did not cancel Paypal subscription)

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Comments

  • @donli said:
    Everyone go to your paypal account.

    Select the settings icon.
    Then the PAYMENTS tab.
    Then select (Manage automatic payments).

    And make sure there's nothing there you've forgotten about and don't want automatically paid.

    Threads/tutorials/advices like this should be pinned somewhere for new users, not that shitty newsletter or main navigation.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Doesn't matter. People won't read anyway unless it has a killer (aka unsustainable) offers are attached. Even then, they will skim over.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2019

    @SpryServers_Tab said:

    @ksug said:

    @Mic-hael said:

    Yes, but in reality the issue is your lack of proper cancellation.

    You are asking BudgetNote to physically lose money (fees) because of this.

    Then why not just refund minus fees? An erroneous payment for service not rendered will result in a chargeback/dispute win by the customer (as it should), resulting in a bigger loss by the provider.

    Well, I'm probably just gonna get some TOS thumping as a reply.

    Here's the thing with that:

    There is no built in way to do that with PayPal. The only way to do this is manually figure out how much fees were generated, then do a partial refund from paypal. Then you have to go into your billing database and either manually edit entries, or mess around with creating a new invoice and crediting it to record the transaction. Either way, most billing software doesn't support refund minus fees. There would be no effective record of what happened without lots of manual labor.

    I just went through this with a client who paid about 5 invoices manually, then his subscription then paid them again right after.

    As a matter of fact, I've been meaning to write it into my TOS, that the only refund you will get for erroneous PayPal payments is as a credit balance.

    It's YOUR responsibility to manage your subscription. NOT the provider's.

    Almost every provider here is using whmcs (including the mentioned one here).

    Click invoice. Look at numbers. Click Refund tab. Type amount minus transaction fee (which is listed just a couple inches down on the same page), click Refund. It should be listed under one of the invoices as an overpayment even if a new invoice wasn’t generated, that’s the one you’d do this from.

    Also whmcs can track subscriptions and the provider can cancel them on the product page. WHMCS can auto cancel these when cancelling the service as well, short of an odd circumstance where the ID wasn’t written to the database.

    I get that it’s the customer’s responsibility in the end, but this isn’t exactly “uphill both ways, in the snow, while dodging gunfire” for the provider.

  • qpsqps Member, Host Rep

    PayPal subscriptions are a huge time waster. People rarely remember to cancel, and the built in stuff in WHMCS rarely cancels them automatically.

    Switch from subscriptions to billing agreements.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    You know, Paypal could have corrected how PP sub works many moons ago.

    But they don't seem to care as it brings in extra dough. I think, in PP's eyes, Paypal sub is working as intended.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • MasonRMasonR Community Contributor
    edited October 2019

    @donli said:
    Everyone go to your paypal account.

    Select the settings icon.
    Then the PAYMENTS tab.
    Then select (Manage automatic payments).

    And make sure there's nothing there you've forgotten about and don't want automatically paid.

    Here's a direct link: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_manage-paylist

    (hopefully it redirects you to whichever paypal branch [us/eu/etc.] that your account belongs to)

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @deank said:
    You know, Paypal could have corrected how PP sub works many moons ago.

    But they don't seem to care as it brings in extra dough. I think, in PP's eyes, Paypal sub is working as intended.

    They are working as intended though. They were designed to set up recurring payments to someone, and they function well. They can be cancelled via API and by both parties.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    0ther6uy said: Their services have an option

    option.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    option.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • Opt-out.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Potassium.

  • JordJord Moderator, Host Rep
    edited October 2019
  • servarica_haniservarica_hani Member, Patron Provider

    For me money is taken for a service

    If you cant provide the service for the client then refund them the money

    it is simple

    saying it is manual process is not an excuse , as provide you do a lot of stuff manually for the client when they open tickets and ask for something so I find it unfair that when the client need the money back we say it manual work and we will not do it

    We had users asking us for refunds for 1 year backward and while we hate those requests we have never kept the the client money without them needing a service

    Actually that is the main cause that forced us to switch to billing agreement so when the user does not have any service with us we simply dont charge them anymore regardless if they cancelled the agreement or not

  • Typically I PM the service provider and suggest that they add the amount as a credit into the account, otherwise PP (or likes) will be the actual beneficiary. Did that with @StockServers recently. "Cashback credited to customer account" is a common practise among service providers from food delivery to airline booking in India. For a business how that works for revenue or expense recognition (accrual basis versus cash basis) - is a question for tax specialists, but since we are discussing low dollar amounts, no questions or flags raised so far. Most service providers have an upper limit for adding credit anyways so that is the other arm of the 'checks and balances'.

    There has been one instance in which I got the full refund, then I realised that the service provider actually incurred a loss in the process. Therefore really liked what @jar mentioned (deduct transaction fee while claiming refund). Particularly if you have been with provider X for a certain period of time and you are not leaving because of spite but you probably have outgrown the need for the time being.

  • HostEONSHostEONS Member, Patron Provider

    If a customer cancels the service via WHMCS cancellation system, WHMCS automatically cancels the PayPal subscription if enabled under Settings (From what i remember) unless client has multiple services so it should not be a problem, unless provider is using old version of WHMCS or has not enabled automatic PayPal subscription under WHMCS.

    But again it all depends upon the TOS of the provider and it's upto the provider whether to refund or not and how can a customer expect all providers to take out time and issue refund and go through all the billing mess and also bare PayPal fees.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • @HostEONS said:
    If a customer cancels the service via WHMCS cancellation system, WHMCS automatically cancels the PayPal subscription if enabled under Settings (From what i remember) unless client has multiple services so it should not be a problem, unless provider is using old version of WHMCS or has not enabled automatic PayPal subscription under WHMCS.

    But again it all depends upon the TOS of the provider and it's upto the provider whether to refund or not and how can a customer expect all providers to take out time and issue refund and go through all the billing mess and also bare PayPal fees.

    Not everything written in TOS is necessarily legally conform though. In some cases customers would need to be refunded with the same payment method they've used to pay. That's only Germany though. Judging by what @jar said earlier, that "billing mess" should literally be a couple clicks to refund and substract PayPal fees.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • fpmagicfpmagic Member
    edited October 2019

    You most certainly can as a provider cancel a subscription via the API
    https://developer.paypal.com/docs/api/subscriptions/v1/#subscriptions_cancel

    The problem is that hosts here are all WHMCS sheep, if WHMCS implementation doesnt handle subscription cancellation linked to plan then functionality doesn't exist - so blame the customer.

  • jbuggiejbuggie Member
    edited October 2019

    The whole Paypal subscription option is STUPID. Just say no to Paypal subscription. When you are subscribed to a service using a CC (i.e. a magazine, video...), it is linked with the CC and the service provider is responsible for stop charging your CC when you cancelled the service. Not the case with Paypal subscription and some providers would refuse to refund. Some would only offer partial refund - Hostdoc is one of them.

    Therefore, I make a mental note to refuse to deal with any provider who insists on creating a Paypal subscription upon ordering their service. It is a shady business practice at best.

    Thanked by 2receivedthanks easy
  • @jbuggie said:
    The whole Paypal subscription option is STUPID. Just say no to Paypal subscription. When you are subscribed to a service using a CC (i.e. a magazine, video...), it is linked with the CC and the service provider is responsible for stop charging your CC when you cancelled the service. Not the case with Paypal subscription and some providers would refuse to refund. Some would only offer partial refund - Hostdoc is one of them.

    Therefore, I make a mental note to refuse to deal with any provider who insists on creating a Paypal subscription upon ordering their service. It is a shady business practice at best.

    ‘Shady’.

    I swear I don’t know what goes on in your millennial minds.

  • @fpmagic said:

    The problem is that hosts here are all WHMCS sheep, if WHMCS implementation doesnt handle subscription cancellation linked to plan then functionality doesn't exist - so blame the customer.

    Even worse. Most providers here expect the user knows how WHMCS handle their entire business.

  • imok said: Even worse. Most providers here expect the user knows how to read the Paypal screens when they sign up for subscriptions.

    Fixed that for you.

    Thanked by 1receivedthanks
  • jackbjackb Member, Host Rep
    edited October 2019

    @fpmagic said:
    You most certainly can as a provider cancel a subscription via the API
    https://developer.paypal.com/docs/api/subscriptions/v1/#subscriptions_cancel

    ** If the customers PayPal account is newer than 2009/10.

    You can tell which can and can't be cancelled based on the ID. If it starts with I_ you can cancel it. If it starts with S_, you can't.

  • @fpmagic said:
    You most certainly can as a provider cancel a subscription via the API
    https://developer.paypal.com/docs/api/subscriptions/v1/#subscriptions_cancel

    The problem is that hosts here are all WHMCS sheep, if WHMCS implementation doesnt handle subscription cancellation linked to plan then functionality doesn't exist - so blame the customer.

    Although to call the API, the provider has to know some programming/scripting (setting aside the thing about signup date). There is no legal requirement to know how to write code to become a hosting provider.

    On the flip side, there is also no legal requirement for the customer to know how various ecommerce modules/plugins/services don't integrate well together. Cancellation has been requested and money will be reversed if the customer asks (depending on where he/she lives).

  • @ksug said:
    Although to call the API, the provider has to know some programming/scripting (setting aside the thing about signup date). There is no legal requirement to know how to write code to become a hosting provider.

    My head spins...

    Thanked by 1ksug
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