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Fortatrust adding non paying clients to shameroll with a public blacklist page - Page 2
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Fortatrust adding non paying clients to shameroll with a public blacklist page

2

Comments

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    I wonder if they have the right to post those pics.

  • Former Clients we have received Non-Sufficient Funds Notices from their banks

    Not having enough funds to pay doesn't mean you're not going to pay on time, I personally only load my card when I have to pay for something online.

    Thanked by 1linuxthefish
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @Bogdacutuu said:
    Not having enough funds to pay doesn't mean you're not going to pay on time, I personally only load my card when I have to pay for something online.

    And this is exactly why people should not have their cards loaded, scams will charge them, no matter what.

    Paypal does have some advantages.

    Thanked by 1k0nsl
  • TsumeTsume Member

    Indeed, paypal subscriptions are the worst though. They can be started up and you'd never be the wiser. few months down the line and you're wondering why you're still getting charged.

    Never heard of fortatrust, but their name is clearly misleading. zing

  • @Tsume said:
    Indeed, paypal subscriptions are the worst though. They can be started up and you'd never be the wiser. few months down the line and you're wondering why you're still getting charged.

    Never heard of fortatrust, but their name is clearly misleading. zing

    Ah you mean that subscription that you create in your paypal account. Those emails that you get informing you when a payment has gone from your account don't help either. /sarcasm

  • TsumeTsume Member

    What emails?
    The last time I did a subscription there was no notice what so ever, and I didn't find out it was an automatic payment until months later after I canceled and kept getting charged. I had to contact paypal to find out why money kept getting paid without my doing it.

  • PayPal sends you an email every time it sends a payment.

    Thanked by 1Ash_Hawkridge
  • lol! I've visited the FortaTrust website and now I get ads for FortaTrust with one of those pictures as a background.

  • Ash_HawkridgeAsh_Hawkridge Member
    edited July 2013

    @Tsume said:
    What emails?
    The last time I did a subscription there was no notice what so ever, and I didn't find out it was an automatic payment until months later after I canceled and kept getting charged. I had to contact paypal to find out why money kept getting paid without my doing it.

    Have you entered the right email address? I use PayPal on a daily basis, it sends you an email every time a payment comes into or leaves your account.

  • IvanIvan Member
    edited July 2013

    In case you guys did not already knew, every once in a while, go to your Paypal account > Profile > My Money > My Preapproved Payments > Update.
    You will then be able to see a list of subscriptions, automatically billed payments, and installment plan payments.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Member
    edited July 2013

    Fortatrust/Serverpronto Has to be one of the worst hosting providers out there. Their hardware/network isn't bad, but their billing is an absolute nightmare and impossible to get out of.

  • smansman Member
    edited July 2013

    You gotta be nuts to do post pay in this business. It's bad enough dealing with the chargebacks.

  • @Tsume said:
    Indeed, paypal subscriptions are the worst though. They can be started up and you'd never be the wiser. few months down the line and you're wondering why you're still getting

    I think you've been misinformed so far. I always make it a point to remove subscriptions from my Paypal account right after I sign up with any host. Since I get monthly invoices, I dont need my money to be debited without my express consent. Recently I had trouble with Namecheap, when they had actually set up a subscription, but charged the account only after a week. The subscription had been deleted by then. :)

    Paypal gives you an option to cancel any automatic subscription. If you don't use them, Paypal can't be blamed.

  • ztecztec Member

    This company is criminal in my judgement. Not that I'm on that list, only heard of serverpronto before.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @joelgm said:
    Paypal gives you an option to cancel any automatic subscription. If you don't use them, Paypal can't be blamed.

    Nor the host. We have that issue many times, people forget they setup a subscription and pay by hand too. Then we are the criminals that charge twice for same service.

    It costs us money to send the money back (paypal part of the fee is not refunded), and, guess what, the next month is THE SAME PROBLEM !!!!

    We removed the ability to add credit even, on one portal, these automatic payments are annoying enough. We are thinking to create a processing fee for sending the money back, so people will think twice.

    Personally, each time I am forced into a subscription, i order the product, cancel the payment, go back to the invoice and pay manually like any invoice. Saves me the trouble to go and cancel from paypal.

  • Someone once told me before that their DC is very comparable to a basement. :)

  • @Maounique said:
    Personally, each time I am forced into a subscription, i order the product, cancel the payment, go back to the invoice and pay manually like any invoice. Saves me the trouble to go and cancel from paypal.

    We have in our TOS that we wont refund account credit, which covers this sort of thing.

    I don't think some customers realize we have accounting to take care of each month, coming back three month later and saying "You have taken my money, refund it NOW!" means that we have to adapt three months worth of accounting to reflect the refunds in some cases. Who's paying the accountant if its not done internally?

  • danodano Member

    I only see negative from posting this information about these non-paid accounts. Although I don't advocate leaving outstanding invoices, many times there are reasons that contracts need to be cancelled, and a host should try their best to come to an agreement with their client, about the outstanding sum. For example, I recently purchased a dedicated server that had a special with a 90 day agreement -- after the first month, I wasn't needing the server anymore. When the next invoice came in, I let them know that I didn't need it and what I can do to work it out? They let me know that they had a fee for cancelling on this special. I received the final bill, about 1/5 or 1/4 of the total bill - I paid that and we are both squared up(I understood it was a 3 month minimal deal and they were flexible enough not to require to pay out the total bill). When I was looking around Denver for a colo, I noticed FT but never called them -- I think I will stay away though, as I don't want to end up on a list for a final payment we can't agree upon.

  • @dano said:
    I think I will stay away though, as I don't want to end up on a list for a final payment we can't agree upon.

    Here's my problem with that statement. A contractual agreement shouldn't be negotiable, you shouldn't need to agree on anything, you agreed to the terms beforehand when you signed up.

    I constantly get the impression that some people see business on the internet as a different game altogether, when in reality its no different to signing a paper contract with your loan or insurance provider etc. If i tried what you suggested with my internet or phone provider, they wouldn't ware it, i would have to settle the bill or go to court once a threshold was reached, simple.

  • TsumeTsume Member
    edited July 2013

    I'm pretty sure your provider would cancel your service long before that happened. Unless they enjoy paying mindless court fees. Though I don't doubt they have the money for it. It's bad practice.
    "I'm going to keep charging this person after 2-3 months down the line knowing they haven't and won't be paying it." Doesn't make much sense.

    Since when does paypal not pay their portion of a refund? Every time I've had to issue a refund. I gave back my portion and paypal gave back theirs. With no initial loss to either side.

  • danodano Member

    With the hosting companies I have worked for, we have always done this, and our customers were always happy and usually ended up coming back later and staying for a long time, and even bringing in referrals. For me and the other companies I have worked for, we realized that giving a customer a pro-rated refund or working out a fee for cancelling early, was part of giving great customer service. We also know that 20 bucks in a refund or a fee, is nothing compared to the issue's you will have with this one customer talking badly about your company on some forum - it's not worth it. I would have to say that the internet is actually a different game -- how many insurance companies can you choose from in your state to do business with(I have 5-6) or cell phone companies(4-5 maybe)? On the other hand, how many VPS providers can you do business with(hundreds), or domain registrars(hundreds)? When you have competition like that, you really have to be above the others and do things that you would like done for you, as a customer, as it seems to pay back at the end.

    Thanked by 1linuxthefish
  • DomainBopDomainBop Member
    edited July 2013

    I constantly get the impression that some people see business on the internet as a different game altogether, when in reality its no different to signing a paper contract with your loan or insurance provider etc.

    In some ways, especially in the low end world, signing contracts is very different because in LowEndWorld you often have terms of service where one party named in the TOS/contract (i.e. the hosting provider) isn't even a legal entity and the other party entering into the contract (the customer) is usually clueless as to the real identity of the actual legal entity (the sole proprietor/trader) they are agreeing to a contract with (especially when the owner of the site hides behind private WHOIS and their "company" name isn't registered with any government agency as a DBA/fictitious name) .Non legal entities can't be parties to contracts so the terms of service of many providers should be changed to state the actual name of the legal entity (i.e. the sole proprietor's name Seymour Schmuck d/b/a FlyByNightSummerKiddieHost) that the contract is being entered into. :)


    (GetKVM_Ash gets multiple +1's for being one of the very few sole proprietors/traders who actually states the name of the real legal entity that the customer is agreeing to a contract with in their TOS)

    when in reality its no different to signing a paper contract with your loan or insurance provider etc. If i tried what you suggested with my internet or phone provider, they wouldn't ware it, i would have to settle the bill or go to court once a threshold was reached, simple.

    The majority of people on Fortatrust's blacklist probably did follow the contract's rules for canceling their services. The difference between your phone/internet provider and Fortatrust is that your phone/internet provider probably doesn't have a business plan where dishonesty and scamming play an integral part in revenue generation. They moved their incorporation from Florida to Panama for a reason... :P

  • @DomainBop said:
    The majority of people on Fortatrust's blacklist probably did follow the contract's rules for canceling their services. The difference between your phone/internet provider and Fortatrust is that your phone/internet provider probably doesn't have a business plan where dishonesty and scamming play an integral part in revenue generation. They moved their incorporation from Florida to Panama for a reason... :P

    To clarify, i don't endorse what fortatrust are doing in any way. I was talking about cancellation in general terms, i think that blacklist is damn right dirty and I'm sure other areas of there business are the same. Not a company I would be dealing with.

  • We closed our account with Fortatrust last year, and we have now had to close our business bank account and change to another bank, as they are still taking monthly charges from our account. Their facebook page is dreadful. I do not think this is still a company as when you look on LinkedIn all the staff are now working somewhere else. How can this company be reported. As it is interesting they have a black list, when maybe their directors and senior management should be black listed.

  • How can they take money from your bank account? Bank transfers don't work like this. You have to send them money, they can't take it themselves.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    @rds100 said:
    How can they take money from your bank account? Bank transfers don't work like this. You have to send them money, they can't take it themselves.

    In the Netherlands, there is an automated ("authorized") withdrawal mechanism. I'm sure there are other countries with similar systems.

  • @joepie91 but you should be able to cancel this if you are the sending party, right?

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    @rds100 said:
    joepie91 but you should be able to cancel this if you are the sending party, right?

    Not quite. There is no explicit proof needed (towards the bank) that the creditor actually has an agreement with the debtor; as an account owner you are expected to keep an eye on your own statements, and alert the bank if there is an unjust withdrawal.

    Legally speaking, a creditor can only initiate a withdrawal in accordance with a standing contract with the debtor, but in practice this is basically unregulated. That said, you can contact your bank to reverse the withdrawal, and even ask them to block any future attempts at withdrawal by the creditor.

  • Well, that sounds like a terribly insecure system. I can't imagine my bank allowing anyone to withdraw random amounts of money from my account without me explicitly authorizing this.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    @rds100 said:
    Well, that sounds like a terribly insecure system. I can't imagine my bank allowing anyone to withdraw random amounts of money from my account without me explicitly authorizing this.

    It's basically the same system as creditcard charges :)

    And yes, it's terribly insecure. These kind of things are why Bitcoin is great.

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