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Three netcup specials - Page 2
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Three netcup specials

2

Comments

  • thanhdangthanhdang Member
    edited November 2018

    I just want to add they collect 2.64 euro for reminding you to pay your bill because I was a little late on my payment. And I think somebody logined my window server and changed my admin password. Everything worked fine but one day I can't rdp to my server. And the password worked fine the day before...I have online.net for years and I have never had any problem with them.

  • @thanhdang said: I just want to add they collect 2.64 euro for reminding you to pay your bill because I was a little late on my payment.

    This is related to their contract: if one is late in paying one's bill, then there is a late fee, yes. (I emphasized in my post that netcup have contracts.)

    thanhdang said: And I think somebody logined my window server and changed my admin password. Everything worked fine but one day I can't rdp to my server. And the password worked fine the day before...

    Well, I'm afraid that this is hard for us to evaluate in any sense, and even you don't seem to be sure that it was netcup who did it ("I think somebody [...]"). I'm not saying that you're wrong -- simply that in the absence of evidence (e.g., tickets), we can't really conclude anything about netcup's role in this, so it remains anecdotal.

  • This is pretty good, beating recent benches of the Hetzner 8 (shared) vcore cloud server iirc. If the current one (VPS 2000) is similar but with 16gb ram and the 1.5tb sas at 14.49 euro, that's really very attractive, a plausible alternative to something like a Kimsufi KS-10 or 11. Do they still charge EU VAT to non-EU customers?

  • can one install proxmox on the 16gb ram vps?

  • i just asked their support about this and they said you can only create LXC containers. For kvm recommended to use dedicated RS product line. So its clear.

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • @ehab said:
    i just asked their support about this and they said you can only create LXC containers. For kvm recommended to use dedicated RS product line. So its clear.

    also for using nested virt aka KVM, you need to pay an additional fee to get it activated (passthrough of the cpu flags). afaik it's 2€ per vcore, so can get pricey fast.

    Thanked by 1ehab
  • @willie said: Do they still charge EU VAT to non-EU customers?

    For private customers, yes, and unlikely to change soon. (Again, note that German VAT is included in the advertised prices.)

  • angstrom said: For private customers, yes, and unlikely to change soon.

    That's annoying. They should review this question. Collecting VAT from non-European citizens is a way to "export" taxes.

  • @EHRA said:

    angstrom said: For private customers, yes, and unlikely to change soon.

    That's annoying. They should review this question. Collecting VAT from non-European citizens is a way to "export" taxes.

    EU VAT has been discussed before on LET, also in connection with netcup, but unfortunately, none of us on LET are EU VAT experts.

    On my understanding, netcup's practice is legal but unusual. If you look at the third row ("consumer outside the EU") in the first table ("EU BUSINESSES supplying to:") on

    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/telecommunications-broadcasting-electronic-services/content/when-and-where-charge-vat_en ,

    you see that although normally no VAT is charged to non-EU consumers, VAT may be charged "if the service is effectively used & enjoyed in an EU country". I imagine that netcup is making use of this clause, based on the idea that their servers and services are located in Germany.

    (If netcup were selling software that you download and use & enjoy on your own computer, then they wouldn't be able to make use of this clause.)

    Note that I'm not trying to defend netcup's practice -- I'm just saying that I think that their practice is legal (at least until decided otherwise by a German or EU court).

  • angstrom said: "if the service is effectively used & enjoyed in an EU country".

    This only confirms that the charge is wrong. I am not using and enjoying the service in an EU country, because I am not in the EU. Note that verbs stand location of who uses the services and not of who provides the services.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited November 2018

    Can easily be argued that you are using (used & enjoyed) a server in physical German location.

    Just sue them if you feel strongly wronged. Someone has to do it. We encourage you to sue them.

    Thanked by 1bjo
  • deank said: Can easily be argued that you are using (used & enjoyed) a server in physical German location.

    Note that verbs stand location of who uses the services and not of who provides the services.

    deank said: Just sue them if you feel strongly wronged. Someone has to do it. We encourage you to sue them.

    It's just easier not to do business with them. Therefore, for non-European citizens, it is better to hire Hetzner services.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited November 2018

    Netcup doesn't see it that way and I don't, either. You either fight them like a man or avoid them like a man.

    You made the latter choice.

  • @EHRA said: deank said: Can easily be argued that you are using (used & enjoyed) a server in physical German location.

    Note that verbs stand location of who uses the services and not of who provides the services.

    Now you're becoming argumentative -- I didn't/don't want to argue.

    Let's put it this way: I think that there is nonetheless a salient difference between purchasing software from an EU company and downloading and using & enjoying it on your own computer in your non-EU country (an example that I gave), on the one hand, and purchasing a server (more precisely, a server-as-a-service) from an EU company such that the server-as-a-service is located in an EU country and (as a consequence) that is where you can be said to use & enjoy it, on the other hand.

    You might say that this difference between these two cases shouldn't result in a difference between not paying VAT (in the first case) and paying VAT (in the second case), but I think that it would be hard to deny that there is a salient difference between the two cases in the first place.

    Again, I'm not trying to defend netcup's practice -- I'm simply saying that I think that it's legal (until decided otherwise in a court).

    EHRA said: deank said: Just sue them if you feel strongly wronged. Someone has to do it. We encourage you to sue them.

    It's just easier not to do business with them. Therefore, for non-European citizens, it is better to hire Hetzner services.

    Go for it.

    (And as @deank says, if you want to take netcup to court, be our guest.)

  • @willie said:

    This is pretty good, beating recent benches of the Hetzner 8 (shared) vcore cloud server iirc. If the current one (VPS 2000) is similar but with 16gb ram and the 1.5tb sas at 14.49 euro, that's really very attractive, a plausible alternative to something like a Kimsufi KS-10 or 11. Do they still charge EU VAT to non-EU customers?

    Yeah, the results are pretty nice. It seems better than a cheap dedi as it comes with RAID 10 and their SAS based storage system with SSD cache seems quite powerful...

    I doubt they'll offer anything better during BF (including that much storage) but who knows... :tongue:

    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • vimalwarevimalware Member
    edited November 2018

    Can anyone who's tried the Free Snapshot export feature recently, tell me how it works with respect to the disk usage?

    For example for the 750GB model, if I write 350GB of data to the volume , I assume it will allow me to take a snapshot, but not if I write over 375GB of data?

    Or is just the first snapshot export via FTP free? (this is actually enough if you're moving away from netcup due to any Reason)

    I'm seeing conflicting information in the forums.

  • @vimalware said: For example for the 750GB model, if I write 350GB of data to the volume , I assume it will allow me to take a snapshot, but not if I write over 375GB of data?

    Although I've never taken snapshots, yes, this is how I understand it (which naturally limits its usefulness).

  • FalzoFalzo Member
    edited November 2018

    @vimalware said:
    Can anyone who's tried the Free Snapshot export feature recently, tell me how it works with respect to the disk usage?

    For example for the 750GB model, if I write 350GB of data to the volume , I assume it will allow me to take a snapshot, but not if I write over 375GB of data?

    Or is just the first snapshot export via FTP free? (this is actually enough if you're moving away from netcup due to )

    I'm seeing conflicting information in the forums.

    afaik it's not a full snapshot as in 'diskimage', but like journaling and then saving changes for the next snapshot. only if you export it, it will create a fullblown archive, which you can download from their FTP (so this doesn't count to your disk-space either).

    so if I got this right you should be able to do a snapshot of 375 GB of data, but the next snapshot might depend on the amount of data changed and count against your space for the diff/increment - but I am not totally sure on the latter.

    got the wrong impression, corrected, see below ;-)

  • @Falzo said:

    @vimalware said:
    Can anyone who's tried the Free Snapshot export feature recently, tell me how it works with respect to the disk usage?

    For example for the 750GB model, if I write 350GB of data to the volume , I assume it will allow me to take a snapshot, but not if I write over 375GB of data?

    Or is just the first snapshot export via FTP free? (this is actually enough if you're moving away from netcup due to )

    I'm seeing conflicting information in the forums.

    afaik it's not a full snapshot as in 'diskimage', but like journaling and then saving changes for the next snapshot. only if you export it, it will create a fullblown archive, which you can download from their FTP (so this doesn't count to your disk-space either).

    so if I got this right you should be able to do a snapshot of 375 GB of data, but the next snapshot might depend on the amount of data changed and count against your space for the diff/increment - but I am not totally sure on the latter.

    I've just checked: on my vServer, I have 11 GB used out of 20 GB, and it says that I can't make a snapshot.

    Thanked by 2Falzo vimalware
  • @angstrom said:

    I've just checked: on my vServer, I have 11 GB used out of 20 GB, and it says that I can't make a snapshot.

    I see. Checked again for another server of mine, and also got to read:

    Der minimal notwendige Speicherplatz zur Erstellung eines Snapshots wurde unterschritten, daher kann kein weiteres Abbild angelegt werden. Damit Sie einen Snapshot anlegen können, muss die Größe des freien Speicherplates ebenso groß wie der durch Ihre Daten belegte Speicherplatz, oder größer, sein. In machen Fällen ist eine Defragmentierung notwendig um Speicher freizugeben.

    which essentially says that one needs at least as much free space as already in use. so, I retract my earlier comment and claim the opposite. :-D

    Thanked by 2angstrom vimalware
  • @Falzo said: which essentially says that one needs at least as much free space as already in use. so, I retract my earlier comment and claim the opposite. :-D

    Yeah, if @vimalware has no more than 375 GB used out of 750 GB, the snapshot feature should still work, but if he has +1 byte used, then he should also see the notice that both you and I see.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • So the snapshot is on the same drive array? If there is a problem with the storage, the snapshot is lost as well, isn't it?

  • angstromangstrom Moderator
    edited November 2018

    @datanoise said:
    So the snapshot is on the same drive array? If there is a problem with the storage, the snapshot is lost as well, isn't it?

    I think that the idea is to export/download the snapshot after taking it.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • @angstrom said:

    @datanoise said:
    So the snapshot is on the same drive array? If there is a problem with the storage, the snapshot is lost as well, isn't it?

    I think that the idea is to export/download the snapshot after taking it.

    Alternatively, and this may be what @Falzo was suggesting above, you can take a snapshot and use it as a way to return to an earlier state of your system.

    In any case, it's probably best to not to think of snapshots -- at least not as implemented on netcup -- as a way to do backups.

  • mfsmfs Banned, Member
    edited November 2018

    angstrom said: export/download the snapshot after taking it.

    In such a scenario I'd rather use borgbackup directly
    I haven't used that feature, I guess it could be convenient if you're messing around/experimenting with your server

    datanoise said: So the snapshot is on the same drive array? If there is a problem with the storage, the snapshot is lost as well, isn't it?

    according to their wiki

    Snapshots nicht um simple Kopien des Systems handelt, sondern um Sicherungen auf externe und redundant ausgelegte Storages (Datenspeicher Einheiten) inkl. sicherer Übertragung der Daten sowie Prüfung der gesicherten Daten

    which roughly means "Snapshots are not simple copies but backups to external and redundant specific storage"

  • angstromangstrom Moderator
    edited November 2018

    @mfs said: according to their wiki

    Snapshots nicht um simple Kopien des Systems handelt, sondern um Sicherungen auf externe und redundant ausgelegte Storages (Datenspeicher Einheiten) inkl. sicherer Übertragung der Daten sowie Prüfung der gesicherten Daten

    which roughly means "Snapshots are not simple copies but backups to external and redundant specific storage"

    I think that the wiki is out of date.

    If you go to https://www.netcup.de/vserver/vps.php#features, click on "Details", and put your mouse over the "i" next to "Snapshots", you can see that this is not what is described.

    (For the same information in English, do the same at https://www.netcup.eu/vserver/vps.php#features .)

  • mfsmfs Banned, Member
    edited November 2018

    Falzo said: which essentially says that one needs at least as much free space as already in use. so, I retract my earlier comment and claim the opposite. :-D

    .

    angstrom said: I think that the wiki is out of date.

    If you go to

    In the forums, no later than 10 months ago, it's mentioned the fact that you could end up using more than 100% of your disk space if e.g. you take a snapshot and then fill the VPS with other data. So the "free space limit" seems just a check to prevent using more than 150% of the allotted space and it's unclear if the snapshot, once retained via CoW, is then moved elsewhere (as in: different array) or not. The wiki has been last updated in 2015, no other hints so far

  • @mfs said: In the forums, no later than 10 months ago, it's mentioned the fact that you could end up using more than 100% of your disk space if e.g. you take a snapshot and then fill the VPS with other data. So the "free space limit" seems just a check to prevent using more than 150% of the allotted space and it's unclear if the snapshot, once retained via CoW, is then moved elsewhere (as in: different array) or not. The wiki has been last updated in 2015, no other hints so far

    Yeah, who knows, I guess that one would have to experiment to find out, I'm a bit skeptical that the snapshot is moved somewhere else, but who knows ...

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited November 2018

    So, I've got a question. Why isn't this snapshot available for us?

    Us, human beings.

  • Is the export of the Snapshot (qcow2?) available via FTP?

    Snapshot exports are a cheaper (iops-wise) way of moving 100Ks to millions of 100-200KB files out of the vps at once.

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