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ghost payment charge from Alpharacks - Page 2
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ghost payment charge from Alpharacks

2

Comments

  • zedzed Member

    @Falzo said:
    this actually is a very good comparison. question: what would the electric company most likely answer and do with the money, once you found out and ask them about it? I'd say 'account credit' isn't it ;-)

    the service rep would say something like "oh gosh, no problem" and cut you a check, since you're no longer a customer and a credit would be completely pointless.

    Thanked by 1Falzo
  • @AnthonySmith said:
    PayPal subscription- an agreement between the end user and PayPal to SEND money to a given PayPal address on a schedule, this agreement is NOT made with the provider, you make this agreement with PayPal directly the agreement is your responsibility to maintain, correct and more importantly UNDERSTAND before you agree to it and you are not forced to use this, you can make a single payment instead.

    If you don't care, click next next, agree then you don't care about your own money and expect providers to wipe your arse for you, you generate extra work and for no good reason as such usually credit is given only (in fact whmcs does it automatically)

    I only agree with this stance instead of a refund when the provider does the following.

    1) does not force subscription payments.

    2) offers alternative payment methods generally.

    3) warns the end user in their terms

    4) warns the user In all invoice emails regarding subscriptions.

    5) specifically requests that the end user cancel any subscriptions they might have post cancellation.

    6) includes information regarding subscriptions in the initial welcome and vps details email.

    This means even after just 1 month of service the end user will have had at least 5 email and 3 on screen reminders about their subscriptions.

    Any less then that and the provider should refund.

    PayPal billing agreement - an agreement where you authorise the provider to take payments directly from your PayPal account including funding sources, this is not as common and in all cases the provider should refund if they charge for a cancelled service as the provider was an agreeing party in the billing arrangement.

    So @Element which was it?

    Again, sorry for my English.

    When I hired the service, I do not remember leaving the automatic renewal. Maybe there I had an error.

    But it is understood that if I cancel a service 3 or 4 months before its renewal, it is understood that I no longer need it. In fact, I think I have put that detail at the moment of requesting its immediate cancellation.

    On the other hand, I did not receive ANY mail indicating any renewal. That at least 5 emails arrive is a lie.

    and finally, I'm still waiting for the full refund

  • When cancelling a service, the auto renewal still stays in effect?

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @JohnMiller92 said:
    When cancelling a service, the auto renewal still stays in effect?

    In general, I think that there's still a lot of unawareness among end-users of how PayPal subscriptions work (as also witnessed by this thread).

    Thanked by 1Falzo
  • JohnMiller92JohnMiller92 Member
    edited August 2018

    @angstrom said:

    @JohnMiller92 said:
    When cancelling a service, the auto renewal still stays in effect?

    In general, I think that there's still a lot of unawareness among end-users of how PayPal subscriptions work (as also witnessed by this thread).

    That's prob what happened here I'm guessing? Customer thought they cancelled their service (they did), but they prob thought it would also cancel the auto renewal/sub stuff w/ paypal. Which it didn't. OP gets "credit" instead of a full refund. If I got that right

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @JohnMiller92 said:

    @angstrom said:

    @JohnMiller92 said:
    When cancelling a service, the auto renewal still stays in effect?

    In general, I think that there's still a lot of unawareness among end-users of how PayPal subscriptions work (as also witnessed by this thread).

    That's prob what happened here I'm guessing? Customer thought they cancelled their service (they did), but they prob thought it would also cancel the auto renewal/sub stuff w/ paypal.

    Exactly.

    Thanked by 1FHR
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    You need to think of it as 2 separate processes that just happen to work together.

    1) You but a product with a renewal date.

    2) You ask PayPal to sent money on an anniversary date. (optional)

    On the anniversary date the payment gets sent because PayPal is not aware of what decisions you have made, all PayPal knows is that you asked them to send money until further notice.

    Again, Subscriptions are not forced, you are taken to a PayPal screen that specifically asks you to make an agreement to send money on an ongoing basis which they then email you to confirm your subscription agreement.

    Sadly this complaint is a case of click click click, next next next with your eyes closed 110% of the time, claiming not to understand is no excuse there are literally so many notifications all the way through the process you have to choose to not pay attention to what you are agreeing to.

    All of this discussion for the 99th time though, I think I am just going to switch to billing agreements instead.

    I understand not everyone is the same, this is just one of those things I just cant believe people dare place any blame on hosts for.

    Thanked by 3angstrom Clouvider FHR
  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @deank said:
    I think Paypal is partially at fault. They've got to come up with something better than this.\

    I always cancel my subscriptions on time, so I haven't had an issue but it's a pain.

    They did - billing agreements. Extremely hard to get approved for that though.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @Element said:

    @AnthonySmith said:
    PayPal subscription- an agreement between the end user and PayPal to SEND money to a given PayPal address on a schedule, this agreement is NOT made with the provider, you make this agreement with PayPal directly the agreement is your responsibility to maintain, correct and more importantly UNDERSTAND before you agree to it and you are not forced to use this, you can make a single payment instead.

    If you don't care, click next next, agree then you don't care about your own money and expect providers to wipe your arse for you, you generate extra work and for no good reason as such usually credit is given only (in fact whmcs does it automatically)

    I only agree with this stance instead of a refund when the provider does the following.

    1) does not force subscription payments.

    2) offers alternative payment methods generally.

    3) warns the end user in their terms

    4) warns the user In all invoice emails regarding subscriptions.

    5) specifically requests that the end user cancel any subscriptions they might have post cancellation.

    6) includes information regarding subscriptions in the initial welcome and vps details email.

    This means even after just 1 month of service the end user will have had at least 5 email and 3 on screen reminders about their subscriptions.

    Any less then that and the provider should refund.

    PayPal billing agreement - an agreement where you authorise the provider to take payments directly from your PayPal account including funding sources, this is not as common and in all cases the provider should refund if they charge for a cancelled service as the provider was an agreeing party in the billing arrangement.

    So @Element which was it?

    Again, sorry for my English.

    When I hired the service, I do not remember leaving the automatic renewal. Maybe there I had an error.

    But it is understood that if I cancel a service 3 or 4 months before its renewal, it is understood that I no longer need it. In fact, I think I have put that detail at the moment of requesting its immediate cancellation.

    On the other hand, I did not receive ANY mail indicating any renewal. That at least 5 emails arrive is a lie.

    and finally, I'm still waiting for the full refund

    I disagree. You said you don’t want the service but continued to send money, that doesn’t really tell me that you don’t need it. It tells me that maybe you changed your mind and want to continue the service.

    Stop making assumptions.

  • xaocxaoc Member
    edited August 2018

    Bullshit.

  • I cancelled the rs hosting with alpharacks a few months back. But just got an email from 2co asking me to update the expiry date of my card or to add a new payment method. By using the contact form at 2co website support section, I asked them to cancel that recurring invoice with my order number. Within an hour, I got reply from 2co as the "recurring payment cancelled".

    I got a 'chance' as the Entropay card added with 2checkout was valid only upto last June.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited August 2018

    AnthonySmith said: Well it seems we now live in a world that has a good percentage of people that believe its OK to shit on someones door step them knock on their door to demand they provide toilet paper.

    More like you drop your wallet on their doorstep and you demand that they return it. I believe in the U.S. it would be illegal for them to pick up the wallet from their doorstep and deposit the $$$.

    (According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding it sounds like if you find the wallet you would need to take reasonable steps to locate the owner, but if you still can't find owner then you could keep it.)

    Of course if they drop the wallet intentionally then idk. But if they hired someone to drop a wallet there every month and forgot to fire that person then probably would still need to return it. haha

    @Element if they don't refund you just open Paypal dispute, it is easy enough. I don't see why AlphaRacks would fight the dispute since they won't have an invoice corresponding to the payment, and even if they fight it I don't see how they could possibly win. I don't know how it works in other countries but in U.S. you can't say "s/he gave us this $$$ so we made up this invoice showing an add funds request after the fact".

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    In this case, AlphaRacks should be willing to refund the money paid, but it would also be understandable if they charged a small fee for doing so (given that the customer was at fault for not having cancelled the PayPal subscription).

  • mikhomikho Member, Host Rep

    @perennate said:

    AnthonySmith said: Well it seems we now live in a world that has a good percentage of people that believe its OK to shit on someones door step them knock on their door to demand they provide toilet paper.

    More like you drop your wallet on their doorstep and you demand that they return it. I believe in the U.S. it would be illegal for them to pick up the wallet from their doorstep and deposit the $$$.

    I think its more like putting the wallet in a named envelope and then pushing it in the mailbox.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2018

    perennate said: More like you drop your wallet on their doorstep and you demand that they return it. I believe in the U.S. it would be illegal for them to pick up the wallet from their doorstep and deposit the $$$.

    More signing a contract (paypal agreement) to take money out of your wallet then give it to someone else that you already agreed in advance to give it to and then being all surprised and expecting everyone else to course correct for you when exactly what you asked for was done.

  • zedzed Member

    it's obviously his fault for not cancelling the subscription via paypal's interface, but it's hardly his fault the entire process isn't as clear and simple as it could be.
    folks forget/don't realize/don't think about the "subscription" being between them and paypal.
    reading about this repeatedly here at LET is what drove it home to me years ago to make sure i don't click the more prominent subscription option when i purchase from lowend providers.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @zed said:
    it's obviously his fault for not cancelling the subscription via paypal's interface, but it's hardly his fault the entire process isn't as clear and simple as it could be.
    folks forget/don't realize/don't think about the "subscription" being between them and paypal.

    Folks need to start reading what they eSign.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    If so, no one will marry.

  • this kind of drama is boring

    • no improvement from whmcs
    • no improvement from paypal
    • no improvement from customer like him
    • only end with we fight againts each other
  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited August 2018

    kassle said: this kind of drama is boring

    • no improvement from whmcs
    • no improvement from paypal
    • no improvement from customer like him
    • only end with we fight againts each other

    Huh, isn't never-ending drama the best drama?

  • @perennate said:

    kassle said: this kind of drama is boring

    • no improvement from whmcs
    • no improvement from paypal
    • no improvement from customer like him
    • only end with we fight againts each other

    Huh, isn't never-ending drama the best drama?

    yes, when the issue growth. in this case it is repeated over and over = boring

  • What did I just read? "Cancelling a service and Paypal subscription are 2 different things". That doesnt make any sense. So I should be charged for ALL the services I canceled, just because I didnt close the paypal agreement?

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited August 2018

    In a nut shell, yes. It's been that way for years.

    Of course, host shouldn't charge but they do, sometimes.

    And, for some hosts, few bucks matter so they simply refuse to refund, the mark of a summerhost or failing one.

  • Jona4s said: What did I just read?

    obviously nothing...

    otherwise you'd have noticed the difference between paypal subscriptions and paypal (billing) agreements and therefore would not mix up those terms again in your posting.

    Thanked by 3Clouvider angstrom FHR
  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @Clouvider said:

    @zed said:
    it's obviously his fault for not cancelling the subscription via paypal's interface, but it's hardly his fault the entire process isn't as clear and simple as it could be.
    folks forget/don't realize/don't think about the "subscription" being between them and paypal.

    Folks need to start reading what they eSign.
    @deank said:
    If so, no one will marry.

    You marry with an eSignature ?

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    deank said: Of course, host shouldn't charge but they do, sometimes.

    NO stop confusing the matter, hosts do not CHARGE you, that sounds like its an action triggered by the host, it is not.

    Thanked by 2angstrom Clouvider
  • LeviLevi Member

    Instant chargeback + multiple defecation in forums. No excuse

  • xaocxaoc Member

    @AnthonySmith said:

    deank said: Of course, host shouldn't charge but they do, sometimes.

    NO stop confusing the matter, hosts do not CHARGE you, that sounds like its an action triggered by the host, it is not.

    What they(providers) should do is inform customers that they have received a payment for a service that has been canceled and offer to refund in case the payment was done in error. In the above scenario the customer is at fault however. Does paypal charge for refunds cause these guys make it sound like it's a burden to issue refunds even on payments made by mistake.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    xaoc said: What they(providers) should do is inform customers that they have received a payment for a service that has been canceled and offer to refund in case the payment was done in error. In the above scenario the customer is at fault however. Does paypal charge for refunds cause these guys make it sound like it's a burden to issue refunds even on payments made by mistake.

    Literally every part of that has already been covered on page 1 in significant detail.

    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • Jona4sJona4s Member
    edited August 2018

    @Falzo
    Im sorry are you a moron? You know that the point of cancelling a service is to end ALL future payments, regardless of the method of payment that was setup.

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