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Upgrading HostSolutions.ro OpenVZ Templates To 16.04 / Jessie or Stretch - Page 2
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Upgrading HostSolutions.ro OpenVZ Templates To 16.04 / Jessie or Stretch

2

Comments

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @default said: Besides, we are slowly stepping into an era of KVM with idling servers and wasted computing power by non-creative monkeys.

    Why so pessimistic? :-) If OVZ 7 becomes stable by November 2019, providers will continue to offer OVZ. For certain purposes, KVM is overkill (as you also suggest), and this won't change.

    The delicate scenario is if OVZ 7 doesn't become stable by November 2019.

    (This is all independent of HS.)

  • acidpukeacidpuke Member
    edited June 2018

    @cociu said:

    Falzo said: I will always lack the understanding

    what people need to understand here is :

    i sell this offers with some terms , one of them is no ubuntu 16, debian 8, centos 7. If for someone is difficult to understand is assume the risk of vm block.

    Maybe quote Falzo entire line next time....

    I will always lack the understanding why anything done inside the container should be able to break that external process...

    I agree with Falzo

    Simple reinstall client side should bring you back to square one.

    Suggestion... maybe should change whatever system you have in place that breaks everything when a client tries to upgrade, sure would eliminate all this drama and time you spend defending this.

    Thanked by 1Falzo
  • LeeLee Veteran

    angstrom said: I look at these cheap OVZ plans as simply offering backup space. Just set them up with one's preferred backup tools and don't experiment too much!

    Backups are incredibly important, you're not selling it very well though.

    Use it for backups as long as you don't touch the VM once it is set up, that includes trying to restore any of the backups. Follow these simple rules and it will work great.

    And if you fuck it up, refer to our terms.

    https://www.hostsolutions.ro/eng/about/tos

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @Lee said:

    angstrom said: I look at these cheap OVZ plans as simply offering backup space. Just set them up with one's preferred backup tools and don't experiment too much!

    Backups are incredibly important, you're not selling it very well though.

    Use it for backups as long as you don't touch the VM once it is set up, that includes trying to restore any of the backups. Follow these simple rules and it will work great.

    Think of it as cheap cold storage. :-)

    Thanked by 1Lee
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @acidpuke said:

    Falzo said: I will always lack the understanding why anything done inside the container should be able to break that external process

    I agree with Falzo

    And you are both wrong. Reason: OpenVZ is but a glorified jail. Quote from their own site: " OpenVZ, Virtuozzo, Linux-VServer, Solaris Zones and FreeBSD Jails are examples of OS-level virtualization."

    @all
    Why does a provider offer only XYZ? Well, why does my preferred taxi company only use brand X cars? Why does the hotel have brand Y TV sets? Why does my favourite pizzeria use the ingredients they use and make the pizza the way they do it?

    Providers can and do make choices - you like their choice, great; you don't like it, just find your preferred choice somewhere else.

    From what I see the simple truth behind this whole non-story is that some customers want the low prices of provider A but the features of provider B.

    I'm currently doing a multi week benchmark/test with @rootnerds. To be honest I didn't even ask or care what OS version the OpenVZ VPS runs. Ubuntu this or debian that, no matter, I can run my vpsbench software, I can apt-get update and install my editor and other software I like, so why the hell should I care (Btw. the results of thet rootnerds VPS are quite nice now. I'll soon present an interim report here).

    @lowendusername

    I'm a developer myself so trust me that I can see what drove you. And I do not criticize your research and tinkering at all. It's just that there are other factors too like the fact where you present it and how you present it.

    To be clear: there ARE already customers who want the prices of @cociu but the features of other providers and they create problems. What you did here will make it worse because (a) it makes it easier and (b) they will say "but I used the safe way! I used the script from LET!"

    And frankly it seems to me that you also wanted to create some pressure, something like "see! It can be done. No problems. So why does cociu not offer it?"

    But a provider is free to sell what he pleases. There simply IS NO right you or any customer has to demand a provider to offer this feature A or that feature B. Maybe it would be simple, maybe you don't like the providers reason but in the end it's HIS RIGHT to chose what he offers. And of course it's your right to dislike his offer and to shop elsewhere. But if you chose to buy his product you are bound by his choice and rules.

    Thanked by 1pike
  • LeeLee Veteran

    jsg said: And you are both wrong. Reason: OpenVZ is but a glorified jail.

    Insightful, you should post here more often.

    Thanked by 1pike
  • @jsg said:

    So, who will accept responsibility?

    Root. Always root.

    Thanked by 1KuJoe
  • defaultdefault Veteran

    @jsg said:
    But a provider is free to sell what he pleases. There simply IS NO right you or any customer has to demand a provider to offer this feature A or that feature B. Maybe it would be simple, maybe you don't like the providers reason but in the end it's HIS RIGHT to chose what he offers. And of course it's your right to dislike his offer and to shop elsewhere. But if you chose to buy his product you are bound by his choice and rules.

    Well... in my opinion this is somewhat wrong. There is the right of customer to ask not demand feature A and B and even C. That's called feedback and service improvement potential. There is the right of provider to actually listen to that feedback and improve accordingly, because business can grow with future customers. I agree with you there is the option to shop elsewhere, but in a good business this is to be avoided, because it would mean loosing actual clients and potential future clients.

    In this topic, OP found a way to improve provider's services by creating scripts, because provider, in an attempt to enforce his rights, possibly did not listen to customer needs for service improvements. Such scripts usage are a typical answer from serious and responsible clients trying to solve their issues without bothering support staff. Again... there is the right to do nothing, but this game of ping-pong with rights can only lead to customers shopping elsewhere.

    Customers like to have options (even though they don't always need em). They like to see dynamic providers who constantly look for options and always try to bring something new to their business, not wishing to limit their business to some static rights and rules.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
    edited June 2018

    @Lee said:
    It's better to keep your mouth closed, and let everyone wonder if you're stupid; than to open it and remove all doubt.

    ;)

    @default said:

    @jsg said:
    But a provider is free to sell what he pleases. There simply IS NO right you or any customer has to demand a provider to offer this feature A or that feature B. ...

    Well... in my opinion this is somewhat wrong. There is the right of customer to ask not demand feature A and B and even C.

    See, that's what I meant. I agree but we don't discuss customers asking for something. We are talking about those demanding and - against providers declared will and rule - try to force their way. And now they have a script to make it easy.

    In this topic, OP found a way to improve provider's services by creating scripts, because provider, in an attempt to enforce his rights, possibly did not listen to customer needs for service improvements. Such scripts usage are a typical answer from serious and responsible clients trying to solve their issues without bothering support staff. Again... there is the right to do nothing, but this game of ping-pong with rights can only lead to customers shopping elsewhere.

    No. OP didn't find a way to improve. He found a way to make it easy to go against providers declared rule.

    And, No again, those scripts are not a "typical answer from serious and responsible clients". They are the answer of someone to ease and largely automize breaking providers declared rule. It might be helpful to keep in mind that all this happens on the node, the property of provider and against his declared will.

    The typical answer from a serious and responsible client is to first look at the offer and to think about it and then if after careful consideration he decides to buy to stick to the rules.

    Customers like to have options (even though they don't always need em). They like to see dynamic providers who constantly look for options and always try to bring something new to their business, not wishing to limit their business to some static rights and rules.

    Is it smart from provider to not offer something that is obviously desired by many (potential and actual) customers? Probably not. Is he OBLIGED to offer what they want? No. Maybe it's not smart but it's his right. Are the customers entitled to break providers rules and to abuse HIS property? Certainly not.

    We should remember a simple fact: We customers use something that is the property of someone else and doing so we are obliged to stick to his rules. If we don't like his rules or what he offers we are free to look somewhere else.

  • defaultdefault Veteran

    @default - Note to self: never accept an offer from @jsg because there will be only rules and obligations and rights.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep
    edited June 2018

    @default said:
    @default - Note to self: never accept an offer from anybody ever because there will be only rules and obligations and rights.

    >

    Fixed that for you. ;)

  • defaultdefault Veteran

    @KuJoe said:

    @default said:
    @default - Note to self: never accept an offer from anybody ever because there will be only rules and obligations and rights.

    >

    Fixed that for you. ;)

    Thanked by 1KuJoe
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @default said:
    @default - Note to self: never accept an offer from @jsg because there will be only rules and obligations and rights.

    • Don't worry, I don't sell any kind of hosting anyway.
    • There are always and everywhere rules, obligations and rights.
  • I only store my Linux isos here. A day or two downtime per month doesn't bother me that way.

    Thanked by 1Lm85H4gFkh3wk3
  • FalzoFalzo Member

    @bsdguy Hi!

    Thanked by 2Lee MasonR
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @vimalware said:
    I only store my Linux isos here. A day or two downtime per month doesn't bother me that way.

    That's what I meant above. Why would I care about this or that OS version or want only a current one as long as the software I need runs fine and does its job. Also that use case (storage) is something I had in mind when I said I don't like OpenVZ but can understand when some like it for some jobs.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @Falzo said:
    @bsdguy Hi!

    You mean: @jsg = @bsdguy? Not improbable.

    Thanked by 2Falzo default
  • cociucociu Member
    edited June 2018

    to avoid this in the next offer i will put 2 different links with 2 price , like :

    1) offer 1 old templates (actual price 4.50 eur)

    2) offer 2 all templates posible including the new ones in price 5.50 eur/1tb.

    I can beat from now .... i will sell 10 x more in 4.5 compared with the 5.5 eur. So who will want new kernel will be but you must to pay for what you ask. Everybody content ?

    Thanked by 2vimalware that_guy
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    angstrom said: You mean: @jsg = @bsdguy? Not improbable.

    @jsg seems like @bsdguy with the asshole removed.

    @jsg, that is a compliment. @bsdguy was a very erudite member here whose contentious personality caused problems and he left. Other than his bizarre, threatening rants, he was a font of wisdom, though the Venn diagram between his specialized world and LET was a pretty small overlap.

    You arrived a bit after he left.

  • to avoid this in the next offer i will put 2 different links with 2 price , like :

    2) offer 2 all templates possible including the new ones in price 5.50 eur/1tb.

    If by "new Kernel" you mean Kernel 3 and OpenVZ 7, you still have an industry beating offer.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @raindog308 said:
    @jsg seems like @bsdguy with the asshole removed.

    @jsg, that is a compliment. @bsdguy was a very erudite member here whose contentious personality caused problems and he left. Other than his bizarre, threatening rants, he was a font of wisdom, though the Venn diagram between his specialized world and LET was a pretty small overlap.

    You arrived a bit after he left.

    Thanks for the explanation and the compliment. When I saw the first remark and even after the second one I took it to be an insider joke I couldn't know as I'm not long enough here. Something like a "funny" initiation rite teasing and playing a bit hard ball with the new guy. Maybe bsdguy and myself have some similarity because (from what I know) we are in quite similar fields. Meanwhile I have tried to learn a bit more by looking for some of his posts and I found some striking differences like me being largely unpolitical and much more tolerant and calm I'd think and I have no animosity against Israel maybe because I have relatives there.

    But still I'd suggest to find a different initiation rite because the current one is quite weird (hard to understand) and socially questionable in my eyes.

    @cociu said:
    to avoid this in the next offer i will put 2 different links with 2 price , like :

    1) offer 1 old templates (actual price 4.50 eur)

    2) offer 2 all templates posible including the new ones in price 5.50 eur/1tb.

    I can beat from now .... i will sell 10 x more in 4.5 compared with the 5.5 eur. So who will want new kernel will be but you must to pay for what you ask. Everybody content ?

    Good solution. Please keep us updated. I'd be interested in the outcome.

  • @raindog308 said:

    >

    @jsg seems like @bsdguy with the asshole removed.

    Is it just me who read it wrong?

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @jsg said: But still I'd suggest to find a different initiation rite because the current one is quite weird (hard to understand) and socially questionable in my eyes.

    You're right that both @Falzo's and my comment were puzzling without more context (so it was "insider" in this respect), but we didn't mean to be unwelcoming, so I apologize for my part.

    @bsdguy had a habit of showing up in @cociu threads and saying that everyone was wrong except for @cociu. I think that it was your longer comment above that triggered @Falzo's reaction, and I then somewhat hesitatingly supported his conjecture.

    You don't have the crudeness of @bsdguy, nor his paranoia, nor did he run benchmarks, so I don't really think that you could be him. :-)

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @angstrom said:
    @bsdguy had a habit of showing up in @cociu threads and saying that everyone was wrong except for @cociu. I think that it was your longer comment above that triggered @Falzo's reaction, and I then somewhat hesitatingly supported his conjecture.

    You don't have the crudeness of @bsdguy, nor his paranoia, nor did he run benchmarks, so I don't really think that you could be him. :-)

    My point was not about this or that provider. I would have written exactly the same if OP happened to have addressed another OpenVZ provider. But he happened to address @cociu's OpenVZ product. Not my choice but his.

    And man am I glad that bsdguy didn't do benchmarks or else I might really be in the LET jail (no pun intented). I'll tell my grand children how writing an open source VPS benchmark saved their grandpa from getting virtually lynched.

    Seriously, as a relatively new user what's my chance to even understand that insider game against me? You should really come up with a new initiation rite.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @msg7086 said:

    @raindog308 said:

    >

    @jsg seems like @bsdguy with the asshole removed.

    Is it just me who read it wrong?

    Much much better than the other rite.

    And no, my a**hole is still there. I'm sure because I did a test fart.

    (@raindog308 don't worry, I got your remark as you intended it and I thank you for it).

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @jsg said: Seriously, as a relatively new user what's my chance to even understand that insider game against me? You should really come up with a new initiation rite.

    But there is no initiation rite. I've just said that you aren't paranoid like him (take this as a compliment). There is no initiation rite.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @angstrom said:

    @jsg said: Seriously, as a relatively new user what's my chance to even understand that insider game against me? You should really come up with a new initiation rite.

    But there is no initiation rite. I've just said that you aren't paranoid like him (take this as a compliment). There is no initiation rite.

    But that's how I took it because I had no basis to understand it.

    But you are probably right and I misunderstood it. Sorry and be sure I have no bad feelings against you.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator
    edited June 2018

    @jsg said:

    @angstrom said:

    @jsg said: Seriously, as a relatively new user what's my chance to even understand that insider game against me? You should really come up with a new initiation rite.

    But there is no initiation rite. I've just said that you aren't paranoid like him (take this as a compliment). There is no initiation rite.

    But that's how I took it because I had no basis to understand it.

    But you are probably right and I misunderstood it. Sorry and be sure I have no bad feelings against you.

    No initiation rite, no conspiracy. It was an unplanned reaction by @Falzo followed by an unplanned reaction by me. We're not against you (or against anyone, for that matter). Just wanted to clarify this.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited June 2018

    So, @jsg = @bsdguy

    Me = @WSS ?

    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • @deank said:
    So, @jsg = @bsdguy
    Me = @WSS ?

    The end is nigh!

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