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LeaseWeb: Weird billing practice
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LeaseWeb: Weird billing practice

So, here I was listening to everyone here about how good Leaseweb was etc..

So decided to give it a try, thinking, let's see if the server is actually any good.

First thing I noticed was that unlike DO, Linode, Amazon etc, these guys have a minimum term of 1 month.

But I thought, if it's really that good, then it should work. So I paid $10 and took a VPS.

Unfortunately, the CPU was not powerful enough. It was sort of middling. After after a couple of hours, the VPS was of no use to me.

But since I'd already paid for 1 month, I thought I'd let it hang around till the end of the billing period.

Big Mistake!

I get a new invoice a day after the one-month period was over.

So I ask them what that's for. This is what they said:

You ordered your VPS in early April, and paid for 1 month upfront. But that payment was for the period from May1 to May 31. You haven't paid us for April!

So I said, I have canceled for May. I don't want it for May. So they're like: "Doesn't matter, the money you paid us initially was for May. But you used in April. Pay us for April."

I mean, seriously, what kind of accounting is that? The whole thing would have cost me a couple of cents on other providers, and I was willing to pay for 1 whole month to test out their server. But charging me for nearly two whole months, saying the initial payment was for the second month, and the first month has to be paid etc. doesn't sound very fair to me.

Anyone else ran into any such issues?

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Comments

  • hostdarehostdare Member, Patron Provider

    seems like netcup ? probably leaseweb is german

  • elos42elos42 Member

    Leaseweb is Dutch I think.

  • elos42elos42 Member

    In effect, their policy is -- we'll charge you for this month and the next even if you want to use for an hour. Here I was thinking charging people for 1 month for doing a 10 minute test was unfair.

  • elos42 said: Here I was thinking charging people for 1 month for doing a 10 minute test was unfair.

    I would say that charging 1 month for a 10-minute usage is fine, as that is indeed a monthly paid service. Charging 2 months, however, is a bit insane.

    Thanked by 1Janevski
  • ShazanShazan Member, Host Rep

    @elos42 said:
    I get a new invoice a day after the one-month period was over.

    Did you ask for a termination after those 10 minutes and before the next billing period?
    If not, then it is normal that they invoiced you another month after the first one.

    Also, nowhere on their site they advertise hourly billing, I don't see anything weird in their billing practises.

  • elos42elos42 Member

    Shazan said: Did you ask for a termination after those 10 minutes and before the next billing period? If not, then it is normal that they invoiced you another month after the first one.

    It's a prepaid service. They give you the service only if you pay for it in advance. The usual practice in such cases is to terminate the server when you run out of balance. You can't have a prepaid service, and then say, we kept extending your contract on credit and now you owe us all this money!

  • ShazanShazan Member, Host Rep

    No, it doesn't work like that.
    It is prepaid but you have to request for termination when you don't want to use it anymore.

  • elos42elos42 Member

    And if I don't?

    @Shazan said:
    No, it doesn't work like that.
    It is prepaid but you have to request for termination when you don't want to use it anymore.

  • @elos42 said:
    And if I don't?

    @Shazan said:
    No, it doesn't work like that.
    It is prepaid but you have to request for termination when you don't want to use it anymore.

    You get charged

    Thanked by 1Shazan
  • elos42elos42 Member

    It's paypal. How do I get charged?

  • If you dont pay, Leaseweb wont hesitate to put Some debt collectors to work

  • elos42elos42 Member

    seriously? you think they're gonna send a debt collector from Holland to India to collect $10?

    Thanked by 1kkrajk
  • @elos42 said:
    seriously? you think they're gonna send a debt collector from Holland to India to collect $10?

    of course! Just like netcup with a customer from china.

    Thanked by 1FHR
  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    @elos42 said:
    seriously? you think they're gonna send a debt collector from Holland to India to collect $10?

    No, they’ll sell the debt to a local collection agency, who will then add their fees onto the $10.

    Thanked by 1kkrajk
  • First-RootFirst-Root Member, Host Rep

    @hostdare said:
    seems like netcup ? probably leaseweb is german

    Not every german company is close to scam ;)

  • elos42elos42 Member

    That sounds like a plan.

    While everyone else ensures that a customer halfway around the world has a prepaid balance big enough to cover the bills (and cancels servers when the balance runs out), Leaseweb relies on recovery agents across the world?

    Nekki said: No, they’ll sell the debt to a local collection agency, who will then add their fees onto the $10.

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    @elos42 said:
    That sounds like a plan.

    While everyone else ensures that a customer halfway around the world has a prepaid balance big enough to cover the bills (and cancels servers when the balance runs out), Leaseweb relies on recovery agents across the world?

    This is their model and it clearly works for them. You didn’t read the terms, life sucks, get a helmet.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @elos42 said:
    That sounds like a plan.

    While everyone else ensures that a customer halfway around the world has a prepaid balance big enough to cover the bills (and cancels servers when the balance runs out), Leaseweb relies on recovery agents across the world?

    Nekki said: No, they’ll sell the debt to a local collection agency, who will then add their fees onto the $10.

    Nope, you came to someone's home with muddy shoes on and started spitting on the walls, there are consequences for this kind of behaviour.

    You've signed a contract and now you're trying to wriggle your way out of it. Businesses catering to professionals usually require minimum terms. Any recurring service, be it a server or a mobile phone requires a cancellation. Even Digital Ocean does - if you simply power it off you still get charged, you need to terminate it - they just give this button a different name - true, they don't require an advance notice, but they then provide a different service.

    Pay up, or you'll find yourself shelling our hundreds when you're charged for every letter, attempted phone call and eventually court costs and recovery costs if you keep ignoring it.

    For the avoidance of doubt - this is solely your mistake here. Hope it teaches you a lesson to read what you sign and then respect the contract you signed.

  • elos42elos42 Member
    edited May 2018

    You don't really get it. In today's world, you can't rely on such 'gotchas' in the contract to get people to pay for more than 1 month at a minimum, when your rivals are charging by the hour.

    It makes zero business sense. Do you think I'm going to order another server from them in the future? Do you think I'll recommend them to any of my clients? Is that loss of good will (through such a clause) really worth the $10 they might make by including such gotcha clauses in their lengthy contract letters?

    This seriously is not about the $10 they stand to make via legal action. This is about the $1000 or more they could have made by being more sensitive to this customer's needs. In other words, not everyone wants to pay for 1 or 2 months just to test a server with them.

    I also doubt whether they are running their business to teach a lesson to developers about reading lengthy contracts and EULAs.

    @Clouvider said:

    @elos42 said:
    That sounds like a plan.

    While everyone else ensures that a customer halfway around the world has a prepaid balance big enough to cover the bills (and cancels servers when the balance runs out), Leaseweb relies on recovery agents across the world?

    Nekki said: No, they’ll sell the debt to a local collection agency, who will then add their fees onto the $10.

    Nope, you came to someone's home with muddy shoes on and started spitting on the walls, there are consequences for this kind of behaviour.

    You've signed a contract and now you're trying to wriggle your way out of it. Businesses catering to professionals usually require minimum terms. Any recurring service, be it a server or a mobile phone requires a cancellation. Even Digital Ocean does - if you simply power it off you still get charged, you need to terminate it - they just give this button a different name - true, they don't require an advance notice, but they then provide a different service.

    Pay up, or you'll find yourself shelling our hundreds when you're charged for every letter, attempted phone call and eventually court costs and recovery costs if you keep ignoring it.

    For the avoidance of doubt - this is solely your mistake here. Hope it teaches you a lesson to read what you sign and then respect the contract you signed.

  • I get the part that you need to cancel the VPS service to actually cancel the contract with them and for the recurring bill to stop...but can anyone explain the fact that OP signed up for April, paid the initial invoice, but the payment (it turns out) is actually for the month of May? I don't get it...

  • elos42elos42 Member

    their point is that their billing cycle is from 1st to 1st. So they charged a full month from me, and because April wasn't a full month, the charged amount was for the next full month. Or that's what I could make out from their letter. Could be that the executive mailing me was totally confused as well, because I got the second invoice exactly a day after one month had passed from the date of ordering, and not on May 1.

  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee Barred
    edited May 2018

    @pullangcubo said:
    I get the part that you need to cancel the VPS service to actually cancel the contract with them and for the recurring bill to stop...but can anyone explain the fact that OP signed up for April, paid the initial invoice, but the payment (it turns out) is actually for the month of May? I don't get it...

    Explanation must be in the providers terms or a specific contract between the provider and OP.

  • AkitoAkito Member

    TOS. 10.4c comes in here I think:

    10.4 Unless specified otherwise in the Order Form/Order Confirmation, Leaseweb will invoice: a) the purchase price of any Equipment sold by Leaseweb to Customer, upon the Order Start Date of the Order; b) setup charges, Service activation charges and any other nonrecurring initial charges, upon the Delivery Date or upon the Order Start Date, whichever is earlier; and c) **all recurring Service Charges, e.g. with respect to the usage of Bandwidth and/or Data Traffic, as of the Delivery Date or the Order Start Date (whichever is earlier), and monthly in advance thereafter**, with the exception of use of Services above the agreed levels of Service and/or additional services which will be invoiced monthly in arrears. 10.5 In deviation of Clause 10.4a), Leaseweb may require Customer to make a pre-payment to Leaseweb in relation to any Equipment purchased by Customer from Leaseweb.

  • elos42elos42 Member

    For the record, there are many VPS providers who do monthly billing. Example OVH. You order a VPS on the 10th and pay 1 month fees, you get it till 9th of the next month. Before the 9th of the next month, they generate a new invoice and send a you reminders that your server is about to expire etc. And if you don't pay the invoice, they simply delete your server. They don't send a long legal contract that you signed that showed a clause that the payment received was not for the first month etc.. I paid X dollars, I got 1 month worth of service. Didn't pay any more, and didn't receive any extra service. Simple.

  • @elos42 said:
    their point is that their billing cycle is from 1st to 1st. So they charged a full month from me, and because April wasn't a full month, the charged amount was for the next full month.

    What was the contract term you chose during checkout? Because if it's a monthly contract, that explanation wouldn't make sense because [that explanation means that] there is an assumption that you won't be cancelling the VPS by May (next billing cycle) and therefore they'll just apply your April payment to your May bill out of convenience. But the rub lies if you cancelled by May...

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    I don’t think they want a Customer that cannot follow simple contractual rules they signed, so it’s a win-win.

    Thanked by 1FHR
  • elos42elos42 Member
    edited May 2018

    This is what they have said: The remaining amount of xxx that needs to be paid is the one time fee. This is for the usage from xx-04-2018 to 1-5-2018. This has been added to the May invoice.

    and they go on to point out that I have indeed paid my invoice for May when I signed up. But not for the above period.

  • elos42elos42 Member

    They offer only monthly terms for VPSes.

    @pullangcubo said:

    @elos42 said:
    their point is that their billing cycle is from 1st to 1st. So they charged a full month from me, and because April wasn't a full month, the charged amount was for the next full month.

    What was the contract term you chose during checkout? Because if it's a monthly contract, that explanation wouldn't make sense because [that explanation means that] there is an assumption that you won't be cancelling the VPS by May (next billing cycle) and therefore they'll just apply your April payment to your May bill out of convenience. But the rub lies if you cancelled by May...

  • elos42elos42 Member
    edited May 2018

    You seriously think this is a "simple contractual rule"?

    This is the contract they said is applicable. Where exactly do you find this 'simple contractual rule' that warns me that the one month payment I am making initially is for the next month, and that a bill for April has to be paid in addition?

    https://www.leaseweb.com/sites/default/files/Legal/SG_ENG_B2B_General_Conditions.pdf

    If it's that simple, it must be fairly easy for you to locate.

    @Clouvider said:
    I don’t think they want a Customer that cannot follow simple contractual rules they signed, so it’s a win-win.

  • FalzoFalzo Member

    @elos42: did you cancel the service before end of the first billing cycle via their control panel or not? simple as that.

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