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Devuan 2 beta released - Page 2
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Devuan 2 beta released

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Comments

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @rm_ said:

    angstrom said: tell them that all they have to do is to follow the instructions on that page

    Don't be silly. Preparing a distro is a different process than removing systemd from an already installed single machine.

    angstrom said: They probably don't know about that page! Devuan 2 could have been released a few days after Debian 9 if the Devuan developers had known about that page and simply followed the instructions! What a loss of time and effort that they didn't choose an easy solution instead of a difficult one!

    And you seem to have a burning hole in a chair under you.

    No burning hole in my chair.

    Essentially, we have the following:

    • I say P.
    • You say not-P.
    • I say not-P for rhetorical purposes.
    • You say P.

    You backtracked, so I won, c'est tout.

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    angstrom said: You backtracked, so I won, c'est tout.

    Yes yes, you are the greatest winner.

    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • I beg to differ. Devian is not just "debian w/o shitd". It's also a team with a certain worldview and spirit and people who actually worked for what they consider the right thing (TM) while debian fucked up big time (and not the first time).

    Being asked to trust debian I have a hard time to see that justified. With Devuan I see a basis for hope and some trust.

    Thanked by 1Ole_Juul
  • Hetzner partly offline. Reason: another debian fuckup. Hahaha!

    https://www.hetzner-status.de/en.html

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @bsdguy said:
    Hetzner partly offline. Reason: another debian fuckup. Hahaha!

    https://www.hetzner-status.de/en.html

    I know that you're delighted to see this, but based on those notices, it's far from clear what exactly happened. For one, it was Debian 8, but for two, what packages were being updated, etc. is simply not said, so it's hard to know what conclusion to draw, esp. for someone like you who claims to follow logical methods and draws conclusions based on proofs.

    (That said, it's possible that Debian 8 messed up here.)

  • @angstrom said:

    @bsdguy said:
    Hetzner partly offline. Reason: another debian fuckup. Hahaha!

    https://www.hetzner-status.de/en.html

    I know that you're delighted to see this, but based on those notices, it's far from clear what exactly happened. For one, it was Debian 8, but for two, what packages were being updated, etc. is simply not said, so it's hard to know what conclusion to draw, esp. for someone like you who claims to follow logical methods and draws conclusions based on proofs.

    (That said, it's possible that Debian 8 messed up here.)

    Well, that's all I said. They fucked up.

    As for me being (allegedly) delighted: no, I'm not delighted when millions of people are victimized by whomsoever. In fact, maybe I care more about the people than debian and some of their more hardcore fans.

    I'm laughing about it because in one of my last posts I just mentioned that the "worldview and spirit" of a team are important and that going shitd tells a lot about the worldview and spirit of a team (and its incompetence) - and now debian graciously delivers an example of what I was talking about.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @bsdguy said: @angstrom said:

       @bsdguy said: Hetzner partly offline. Reason: another debian fuckup. Hahaha!
    
       https://www.hetzner-status.de/en.html
    

    I know that you're delighted to see this, but based on those notices, it's far from clear what exactly happened. For one, it was Debian 8, but for two, what packages were being updated, etc. is simply not said, so it's hard to know what conclusion to draw, esp. for someone like you who claims to follow logical methods and draws conclusions based on proofs.

    (That said, it's possible that Debian 8 messed up here.)

    Well, that's all I said. They fucked up.

    And my point is that we can't be certain based on what was reported: perhaps it was Hetzner who fUcked up. Perhaps they were using an unofficial repository for a package or two, perhaps they were pinning certain packages, etc. -- we simply don't know based on what was reported. And especially a person like you who demands proofs should be less reluctant to accept such things at face value in the absence of more compelling data. (But you too, like the rest of us, are selectively biased.)

  • @angstrom

    Hetzner isn't running their business since yesterday and quite professionally. Their operation - incl. debian updates, no matter their repos or package pinning - is running in rather good quality since quite some years. So, chances are that not Hetzner but debian fucked up. fucked up as in "enhancing" - and utterly breaking - ssl or as in going shitd. Mindset, as I said.

  • Hetzner_OLHetzner_OL Member, Top Host

    Hi LET readers, You can see our Hetzner Status page for updates on this issue: https://www.hetzner-status.de/en.html We apologize for the inconvenience and ask you to write a support ticket if you have any specific questions. Our team is working at top speed on this issue. --Katie, Marketing

  • mkshmksh Member
    edited March 2018

    @bsdguy said:
    fucked up as in "enhancing" - and utterly breaking - ssl or as in going shitd. Mindset, as I said.

    Haha, yeah, the Debian OpenSSL desaster is a timeless classic. Scary to think that was even before Debians quality standarts started shrinking.

    @Hetzner_OL would it be possible to name the affected packages? I don't want to pester support just to satistify my curiousity and a quick search for recent debian bugs that might be related turned up nothing.

    @all Without further information all i can say is that none of my Devuan Jessie installs had any problems updating whatsoever.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator
    edited March 2018

    @bsdguy said:
    @angstrom

    Hetzner isn't running their business since yesterday and quite professionally. Their operation - incl. debian updates, no matter their repos or package pinning - is running in rather good quality since quite some years. So, chances are that not Hetzner but debian fucked up. fucked up as in "enhancing" - and utterly breaking - ssl or as in going shitd. Mindset, as I said.

    Something went wrong in a Debian 8 update on Hetzner's shared hosting and managed servers -- this is all that was reported ("some packages were uninstalled from the servers during a routine update"). How general or particular this problem is is anyone's guess based on this limited information, and drawing a comparison with the ssl incident (years ago) is simply unjustified free association, as well as bringing systemd into the picture. (I really expected more from a person who claims to rely on facts and proofs for drawing conclusions.)

  • Hetzner_OLHetzner_OL Member, Top Host

    @mksh said:
    @Hetzner_OL would it be possible to name the affected packages? I don't want to pester support just to satistify my curiousity and a quick search for recent debian bugs that might be related turned up nothing.

    I can't give you further information on this. --Katie, Marketing

  • mkshmksh Member

    @Hetzner_OL said:

    @mksh said:
    @Hetzner_OL would it be possible to name the affected packages? I don't want to pester support just to satistify my curiousity and a quick search for recent debian bugs that might be related turned up nothing.

    I can't give you further information on this. --Katie, Marketing

    It's OK. It's not like really need to know and i figured asking wouldn't hurt.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @mksh said:

    @Hetzner_OL said:

    @mksh said:
    @Hetzner_OL would it be possible to name the affected packages? I don't want to pester support just to satistify my curiousity and a quick search for recent debian bugs that might be related turned up nothing.

    I can't give you further information on this. --Katie, Marketing

    It's OK. It's not like really need to know and i figured asking wouldn't hurt.

    You didn't really think that they would tell you, did you?

  • mkshmksh Member

    @angstrom said:

    @mksh said:

    @Hetzner_OL said:

    @mksh said:
    @Hetzner_OL would it be possible to name the affected packages? I don't want to pester support just to satistify my curiousity and a quick search for recent debian bugs that might be related turned up nothing.

    I can't give you further information on this. --Katie, Marketing

    It's OK. It's not like really need to know and i figured asking wouldn't hurt.

    You didn't really think that they would tell you, did you?

    Of course. I mean how could you ignore nosey LET users? Coming back to reality, well, not really.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @mksh said:

    @angstrom said:

    @mksh said:

    @Hetzner_OL said:

    @mksh said:
    @Hetzner_OL would it be possible to name the affected packages? I don't want to pester support just to satistify my curiousity and a quick search for recent debian bugs that might be related turned up nothing.

    I can't give you further information on this. --Katie, Marketing

    It's OK. It's not like really need to know and i figured asking wouldn't hurt.

    You didn't really think that they would tell you, did you?

    Of course. I mean how could you ignore nosey LET users? Coming back to reality, well, not really.

    I suspect (and suspected -- see above when I was arguing with bsdguy before he left us) that the problem was dependent on something in Hetzner's setup and doesn't affect Debian 8 installations more generally.

  • mkshmksh Member

    @angstrom said:
    I suspect (and suspected -- see above when I was arguing with bsdguy before he left us) that the problem was dependent on something in Hetzner's setup and doesn't affect Debian 8 installations more generally.

    Yeah, as much as i value Hetzner and like to spin this into a win for Devuan it's for sure a possibility and staying vague as to the actual packages involved could easily be seen as supporting this theory but then it might as well just come down to policies of not talking about their internal setup. I guess we'll never really know what happend.

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