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Devuan 2 beta released
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Devuan 2 beta released

mkshmksh Member
edited March 2018 in General

Actually it's already been 2 week since release but i guess i am not the only one who missed it and it's about fucking time.

https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/

https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/README.txt wrote:

Dear dev1rs

On February 14th 2015, Devuan unveiled a "pre-alpha" Valentine release
of Devuan Jessie [1] just a few months after the Veteran Unix Admins
declared their intention to fork Debian on November 27th 2014 [2].
That was the beginning of our collective journey. Now, three years later,
Valentine's day has more love for the Devuan community. The long-awaited
release of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta (minor planet nr. 3568) is here!

So what's new in Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta?

  • OpenRC is installable using the expert install path (thanks Maemo Leste!)
  • eudev has replaced systemd-udev (thanks Gentoo!)
  • elogind has been added as an alternative to consolekit (thanks Gentoo!)
  • Desktop users can choose among fully functional XFCE (Default), KDE,
    Cinnamon, LXQT, MATE, and LXDE desktops

  • CLI-oriented users can select the "Console productivity" task that installs
    a fully-featured set of console-based utils and tools.

  • A .vdi disk image is now provided for use with VirtualBox.

  • ARM board kernels have been updated to 4.14 and 4.15 for most boards.

Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable is on the horizon

Although Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta has been powering thousands of servers and
desktops for the last two years and been extensively tested by the Devuan
community, it is being released as a beta because at Devuan we value
involvement and feedback. So we want even more extensive testing of
Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta to confirm "when it is ready" to be called a Stable
release.

Once Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable is released, our efforts will turn to Devuan 3.0
Beowulf (minor planet nr. 38086).

Download Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta

Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta at:
http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/

Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta is available for amd64 and i386 in the following flavours:
- installable live CD/DVD
- installation CD/DVD
- NETINST CDROM
- installable minimal live
- qcow/vagrant images

ARM:
https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/embedded/README.txt

Virtual machines:
https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/virtual/README.txt

Upgrade to Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta

Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta provides safe upgrade paths from Devuan 1.0
Jessie, Debian 8.x Jessie, Debian 9.x Stretch. Just follow the
relevant instructions at:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/upgrade-to-ascii

Feedback (we love that!)

If you try to install Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta from a DVD or CD setup
please test it offline (i.e., without a network connection and without a
configured mirror). If something goes wrong please try it
online (i.e., with a network connection and a configured mirror).
And then please report your findings to us including the list
of packages as given by dpkg -l | gzip -9 > packagelist.gz
and the output of cat /var/lib/pam/session > pamconfig.txt

Please get in touch with us through one of the community channels
listed below or on freenode #devuan-dev for real-time interaction.

Information and contacts

Web: http://www.devuan.org
Forum: http://dev1galaxy.org
BTS: http://bugs.devuan.org
IRC: #devuan (freenode)

Journalists please note: this announcement of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta
release is mainly for internal testing not for wide redistribution.
An announcement for the Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable release will
hopefully follow very soon.

happy hacking!

The dev1 team

[1] You can find an archive of the pre-alpha Valentine release message here:
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20180213.205150.929bbd85.en.html

[2] https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/`

Thanked by 2angstrom uptime
«1

Comments

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @mksh said: Actually it's already been 2 week since release but i guess i am not the only one who missed it

    DistroWatch noted it: https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=10117

    But the real question is when the real thing will appear. I hope that they manage before the one-year mark of Debian 9.

  • mkshmksh Member

    @angstrom said:
    I hope that they manage before the one-year mark of Debian 9.

    Yeah, me too. Lets hope they don't take 5 months from beta to final again and manage to have this out by june. For now i am happy to see they are moving forward and didn't hit a roadblock or something like that. If the beta is the same quality as it was with jessie it should be more than solid already at least.

  • WSSWSS Member

    As much as I really want Devuan to succeed, they're so fucking slow and pointless for a Debian-compatible distribution, even without suckitd.

  • bapbap Member

    deVuan = Debian + Valentine? definitely made with love.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator
    edited March 2018

    @WSS said:
    As much as I really want Devuan to succeed, they're so fucking slow and pointless for a Debian-compatible distribution, even without suckitd.

    Yeah, in order to stay relevant it would be good if they could release Devuan within (say) six months of a new Debian release. At the moment, this is far from the case. Compare:

    Debian 8: 2015-04-26 vs Devuan 1: 2017-05-25

    Debian 9: 2017-06-18 vs Devuan 2: 2018-??-??

    For Devuan 1, the long delay made sense, but even so, it was over two years.

    My hope is that Devuan 2 will appear before June 18th, in which case the delay would be just under one year, but we'll see.

    Thanked by 1WSS
  • Maybe I'm not the ideal person to judge that as I mainly use BSD but Devuan based distros and Alpine are what I use when I use linux - and I couldn't care less, not even a rats ass, about Devuan being behind debian. What I care about is not having the feces of an insane jerks brain-ersatz controlling my system.

    In fact, I'll wait a couple of months before upgrading to Devuan 2. Just to be sure.

    Thanked by 1Ole_Juul
  • mkshmksh Member

    @bsdguy said:
    Maybe I'm not the ideal person to judge that as I mainly use BSD but Devuan based distros and Alpine are what I use when I use linux - and I couldn't care less, not even a rats ass, about Devuan being behind debian. What I care about is not having the feces of an insane jerks brain-ersatz controlling my system.

    In fact, I'll wait a couple of months before upgrading to Devuan 2. Just to be sure.

    Yeah, i am a pretty slow adopter myself. I can only seldom find a good reason to upgrade before oldstable aproaches EOL so usualy i don't care much either as long as they aren't getting stuck.

    Still there are exceptions occationaly. Like with Jessie which actually had some stuff i wanted to have but wasn't all that easy to just build myself (multiarch, arm cross compilation toolchain) so i figure sometimes it's actually beneficial to have bleeding edge stuff.

    Also steady releases are good PR (quality first of course but in general) since i guess a lot of people are still on the edge if Devuan can be taken seriously.

  • How much do you want to bet this project's going to be entirely dead in 3 years time?

  • mkshmksh Member
    edited March 2018

    @Crandolph said:
    How much do you want to bet this project's going to be entirely dead in 3 years time?

    Well, you obviously but then it's not like you know shit.

  • @Crandolph said:
    How much do you want to bet this project's going to be entirely dead in 3 years time?

    They'll make systemd emulator

  • @mksh said:

    @Crandolph said:
    How much do you want to bet this project's going to be entirely dead in 3 years time?

    Well, you obviously but then it's not like you know shit.

    Yeah, because I bet your smarter than all the other people leading all the top distro's that switched for a reason, right?

    Either hop on the wave, or switch to BSD. This project is guaranteed to be dead 3 years tops.

  • mkshmksh Member

    @Crandolph said:

    @mksh said:

    @Crandolph said:
    How much do you want to bet this project's going to be entirely dead in 3 years time?

    Well, you obviously but then it's not like you know shit.

    Yeah, because I bet your smarter than all the other people leading all the top distro's that switched for a reason, right?

    Either hop on the wave, or switch to BSD. This project is guaranteed to be dead 3 years tops.

    You had your chance. Bye, bye.

  • @Crandolph said:
    Yeah, because I bet your smarter than all the other people leading all the top distro's that switched for a reason, right?

    Either hop on the wave, or switch to BSD. This project is guaranteed to be dead 3 years tops.

    I'm not impressed by "all the other people leading all the top distro's". Someone going shitd is incompetent, simple as that.

    As for pissing at @mksh: good luck with that. I've seen that guy consistently knowledgeable and knowing what he talks about. Besides, his username suggests some insight, too.

    Re. your bet, I guess you are wrong. For one devuan isn't just any weird guys distro but debian w/o shitd, so there will be lots of interest for a long time. Moreover, now that the groundwork is done and the team is in gears it won't go away anytime soon.

    Thanked by 2Ole_Juul mksh
  • risharderisharde Patron Provider, Veteran

    @Crandolph said:
    How much do you want to bet this project's going to be entirely dead in 3 years time?

    I think you might be right
    I was reminded of Mandrake which would come out after a Redhat release. I loved it but it just couldn't keep up. Mandriva just wasn't the same as Mandrake either.

  • mkshmksh Member
    edited March 2018

    @risharde said:

    @Crandolph said:
    How much do you want to bet this project's going to be entirely dead in 3 years time?

    I think you might be right
    I was reminded of Mandrake which would come out after a Redhat release. I loved it but it just couldn't keep up. Mandriva just wasn't the same as Mandrake either.

    Of course it's not possible to predict the future but i am not that scared there. If the project needs more people i am quite positive it won't take long to recruit those. After all a good part of Devuans userbase consists of people who know how stuff works and how to build it (which is one of the major reasons of not wanting anything to do with systemd). Also there is literally dozens of distributions based on Devuan already. None of those are likely to just sit by and watch their upstream disappear.

    Besides @Crandolph seriously doesn't seem to have much of a clue. Does he really think that if Linux in it entirety becomes infected and assimilated by the systemd virus it would simply not affect BSD at all? That's naive at best. Sure on a superficial level what happens in the Linux world is irrelevant to BSD but on a closer look that's not completely true. BSD and Linux share a lot of software and the invasive nature of systemd serverly threatens software compatibility. So everyone is in the same boat here pretty much. The less resistance there is in the Linux world the worse it looks for every other unix(-like) system and the other way around too of course.

    TL;DR: You can rest assured people are passionate about the issues that led to Devuans creation, there are quite a few of them and many are the same guys that build stuff. I am quite positive things will just work out nicely.

  • Wouldn't they merged into Debian main repo if they succeed enough? Am I miss something?

  • mkshmksh Member
    edited March 2018

    @omelas said:
    Wouldn't they merged into Debian main repo if they succeed enough? Am I miss something?

    As far as the main goals (removing systemd) are concerned Devuan pretty much has succeeded already (at least for this release). Also OpenRC seems to be officially supported now besides SysV so thats a nice bonus (and truly the spirit of an universal operating system - which Debian can no longer honestly claim to be). Who knows maybe at some point in the far future Debian is going to realize the damage they have done but how much of a system worth saving is left by then is an entirely different topic.

    Take a look here: https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd thats been about 2 years ago and systemd is continously growing and eating formerly independant OS parts left and right. Ask your self how would you merge anything into such a frankenstein monster as the one being created by systemd?

    Besides i don't think anyone involved cares that much about merging with Debian. Don't get me wrong. If someone likes using Debian that's their thing but as far as i am (and a bunch of other people too i am sure) concerned i don't give a shit about Debian anymore after all the pseudo descissions and underhanded bullshit they have done over the last years and stabilitywise Devuan wins easily (no surprise without systemd) anyways.

    Edit: Iirc it was even officially stated that the Devuan team sees no point in merging with Debian on grounds of technical and policy reasons. Besides even if it might have cooled down a bit by now at least in the beginning Debian was pretty hostile torwards Devuan (suprise... quite a few fed up developers had left them to work on Devuan).

    Thanked by 1Ole_Juul
  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    I guess this project will get a boost when you can no longer remove systemd in Debian itself. For now, I just do that on all machnes, and see no reason to migrate to Devuan.

  • omelasomelas Member
    edited March 2018

    ignore this

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @rm_ said:
    I guess this project will get a boost when you can no longer remove systemd in Debian itself. For now, I just do that on all machnes, and see no reason to migrate to Devuan.

    I think that less technically inclined users don't want to try to remove systemd on their own.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @mksh said: Also there is literally dozens of distributions based on Devuan already.

    This may be an exaggeration. Could you name the top three distributions based on Devuan?

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    angstrom said: I think that less technically inclined users don't want to try to remove systemd on their own.

    Less technically inclined users won't care if systemd is there in the first place, so won't choose Devuan either.

    Thanked by 1saibal
  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @rm_ said:

    angstrom said: I think that less technically inclined users don't want to try to remove systemd on their own.

    Less technically inclined users won't care if systemd is there in the first place, so won't choose Devuan either.

    But it's not 'either or'. There are at least three groups:

    1. Those (expert-level) users who remove systemd from Debian themselves.

    2. Those users who don't mind systemd or who aren't aware of it and use Debian as given.

    3. Those users who don't like systemd but who like Debian but who don't belong to group 1.

    Devuan could be a real selling point for group 3. Presumably, you belong to group 1, but group 1 isn't representative.

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    angstrom said: Devuan could be a real selling point for group 3. Presumably, you belong to group 1, but group 1 isn't representative.

    You don't need to be "expert-level" to remove systemd. At least for now. If you even know what systemd is, it should be no issue for you to follow a step-by-step process from a webpage as linked above.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @rm_ said:

    angstrom said: Devuan could be a real selling point for group 3. Presumably, you belong to group 1, but group 1 isn't representative.

    You don't need to be "expert-level" to remove systemd. At least for now. If you even know what systemd is, it should be no issue for you to follow a step-by-step process from a webpage as linked above.

    Okay, fine. Perhaps you could do the Devuan developers a service by informing them that all of their work up until now has been in vain because every user can just remove systemd if they want to (so there's no point in having Devuan for the time being).

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran
    edited March 2018

    angstrom said: Okay, fine. Perhaps you could do the Devuan developers a service by informing them that all of their work up until now has been in vain because every user can just remove systemd if they want to (so there's no point in having Devuan for the time being).

    I bet deep down they know :)

    That's why it's also taking so long, because nobody actually cares all that much.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @rm_ said:

    angstrom said: Okay, fine. Perhaps you could do the Devuan developers a service by informing them that all of their work up until now has been in vain because every user can just remove systemd if they want to (so there's no point in having Devuan for the time being).

    I bet deep down they know :)

    That's why it's also taking so long, because nobody actually cares all that much.

    You really should tell them that all they have to do is to follow the instructions on that page. They probably don't know about that page! Devuan 2 could have been released a few days after Debian 9 if the Devuan developers had known about that page and simply followed the instructions! What a loss of time and effort that they didn't choose an easy solution instead of a difficult one!

  • mkshmksh Member

    @angstrom said:

    @mksh said: Also there is literally dozens of distributions based on Devuan already.

    This may be an exaggeration. Could you name the top three distributions based on Devuan?

    https://devuan.org/: Scroll down to "Distributions based on Devuan". Also there is https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=9. Atmittedly i don't know much about all of those but yeah there are quite a lot.

    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    angstrom said: tell them that all they have to do is to follow the instructions on that page

    Don't be silly. Preparing a distro is a different process than removing systemd from an already installed single machine.

    angstrom said: They probably don't know about that page! Devuan 2 could have been released a few days after Debian 9 if the Devuan developers had known about that page and simply followed the instructions! What a loss of time and effort that they didn't choose an easy solution instead of a difficult one!

    And you seem to have a burning hole in a chair under you.

  • mkshmksh Member

    @rm_ said:

    angstrom said: Devuan could be a real selling point for group 3. Presumably, you belong to group 1, but group 1 isn't representative.

    You don't need to be "expert-level" to remove systemd. At least for now. If you even know what systemd is, it should be no issue for you to follow a step-by-step process from a webpage as linked above.

    Well, yeah those steps do work but it's kind of a hack though. Sure the pinning will take care of packages trying to bring in systemd as a dependency but at what price? A semi broken packaging system. Afaik as i know it's not even mandatory for Debian packages to ship SysV scripts anymore so if services work out of the box it's basically luck. Also noone is going to care if those apt preferences render a bunch of packages non-installable for having broken dependencies as what you are doing is not supported.

    You are right in that it's possible to archive a systemd free installation by other means but it's not entirely fair to say that all what's Devuan doing. It's providing a clean and supported way to avoid systemd that goes beyond simple removal of a bunch of packages.

    I guess you are right that those people who actually care about systemd will usually have no problem hacking their way out of it's stranglehold but it's no long term solution imo. I don't want a system where first thing i have to do is deinstall large parts of it and clean up the resulting artifact mess just to be left with a non supported way of operation. What i want is a clean and supported solution i can recommend to random users.

    Of course my motivation is somwehat political too. I actively want to take an anti-systemd stance as strong as possible. Thinking that as long as one can keep it out of it own surroundings everything is fine is shortsighted.

    Thanked by 3rm_ angstrom vimalware
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