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Aff earning collection advice. Reputation on Cloudflexy(Rackhost.co ; Dedicenter)? - Page 2
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Aff earning collection advice. Reputation on Cloudflexy(Rackhost.co ; Dedicenter)?

245

Comments

  • @raindog308 said:
    Raise your hand if you ever heard of cloudflexy before this thread.

    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/119282/cloudflexy-good

  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran

    Wow impressive number of signups. You run a huge blog there.
    Thing is, its all cheap and chinese customers, generally, hit the open dispute button at PayPal before even contacting the host. Its not easy to deal with such market.

    Thanked by 1racksx
  • Im sure many providers want that blog nuked

    Thanked by 1hzr
  • Call for a chargeback to your fellas, I mean it is nothing new to them.

    Thanked by 1bugrakoc
  • Maybe they have not expected this amount of referral and they expected some order at regular price for compensate referral. What seem impossible if 95 % (idk) of their customer are from referral.

    Thanked by 1racksx
  • kyakykyaky Member
    edited October 2017

    @raindog308 said:
    Raise your hand if you ever heard of cloudflexy before this thread.

    I was going to tweet a link to this thread at them...but they don't have twitter and their web site just has a placeholder for the twitter link.

    Their site also says they're owned by rack.sx. They also don't have twitter and their web site just has a placeholder for the twitter link.

    I think the core problem here is the companies you've agreed to promote. Or possibly the market you're promoting into...Chinese customers generate a lot of the complaints here so more marginal hosts may struggle with their chargeback mania.

    People who promote obviously sketchy or poorly-run hosts and then don't get paid...I'm having a hard time getting very sympathetic...

    It doesn't really matter if a particular market generates complaints. The company asked @gongyi to promote products. By default, they should know already the the market may have more problems than others. I don't think chargeback these days is the biggest issue. As you might not know, paypal refuses customers' chargeback on virtual products a lot especially for the customers in Asia. It's nothing racist just a common scenario.

    @gongyi doesn't only promote products on his blog but also promote them on different internal community groups and forums. His blog is just a link gateway. when customers want to buy, he sends link to the customers.

    You have no idea in some ways, what the CN government is doing. anything products related to VPS/VPS that is not from China is defined illegal. Any of these activities can lead to criminal charge. Already people who wrote proxy scripts in China were charged with "Crime of public information security". All I can say is @gongyi is not only doing this for affiliate money. That's why I always want to help him.

    Of coz, @gongyi needs to learn to do more background research on providers rather just their VPS performance.

  • @kyaky said:

    @raindog308 said:
    Raise your hand if you ever heard of cloudflexy before this thread.

    I was going to tweet a link to this thread at them...but they don't have twitter and their web site just has a placeholder for the twitter link.

    Their site also says they're owned by rack.sx. They also don't have twitter and their web site just has a placeholder for the twitter link.

    I think the core problem here is the companies you've agreed to promote. Or possibly the market you're promoting into...Chinese customers generate a lot of the complaints here so more marginal hosts may struggle with their chargeback mania.

    People who promote obviously sketchy or poorly-run hosts and then don't get paid...I'm having a hard time getting very sympathetic...

    It doesn't really matter if a particular market generates complaints. The company asked @gongyi to promote products. By default, they should know already the the market may have more problems than others. I don't think chargeback these days is the biggest issue. As you might not know, paypal refuses customers' chargeback on virtual products a lot especially for the customers in Asia. It's nothing racist just a common scenario.

    @gongyi doesn't only promote products on his blog but also promote them on different internal community groups and forums. His blog is just a link gateway. when customers want to buy, he sends link to the customers.

    You have no idea in some ways, what the CN government is doing. anything products related to VPS/VPS that is not from China is defined illegal. Any of these activities can lead to criminal charge. Already people who wrote proxy scripts in China were charged with "Crime of public information security". All I can say is @gongyi is not only doing this for affiliate money. That's why I always want to help him.

    Of coz, @gongyi needs to learn to do more background research on providers rather just their VPS performance.

    I really appreciate your help.

  • @gongyi Oh btw:

    So you might not get the full amount since you got a lot of canceled orders.... Just something you need to be aware...

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    gongyi said: can i get the money ?

    I suggest you ask the provider for a payment plan, they may not have the money right now to spare, no point in demanding it, they will just shut you out.

    Maybe suggest they pay you over 3 months.

    @Edmond said:

    @gongyi said:

    @Edmond said:
    I personally question if they're even a legit company at all. Allowing desktop Windows, charging dirt cheap pricing (after the coupons are applied), and lately changing the affiliate terms suddenly for my friend's account, probably applies to everyone:

    My guess is that they're just not even making money. Dirt cheap prices that make almost no profit and then refunded orders. Apparently you still earn commissions on canceled orders so they're probably avoiding payments right now. You got a lot of those in that list of affs.

    Oh and by the way, the above quote for max payout is $55 right? Well check this out:

    According to their aff page, it shows $99 is the minimum payout but in the ticket, it read $55 is max.

    You might get the payment if you wait, you might not, who knows. Up to 50% off coupons and 30% commissions doesn't equal they make money off of the services to pay the 6.5k you made so far.

    i had got some money from some providers as the same 30% commissions in the past.

    T here's still confusion about the cloudflexy.

    The thing is that they're running on tiny profits, so where the heck they going to get the money to pay you? Thin air? Which providers gave you 30% and how much did they charge the customers for the services?

    I guess that's not problem with @gongyi. the money is part of a contract which stipulates how, when and by what way he/she will get paid. Each and every part in a contract shall act according to that contract. So, the problem is not about Cloudflxey's financial situation, it's about reputation and trust being misplaced.

    There is no effective forum or conduits to address this kind of complaints. Yet, if @gongyi is ignored, that means not only promoting for those VPS providers will get little benefits, but also the whole trusting system is failing itself. In the future, nobody will promote ADs on their websites, And, maybe it's time for Cloudflexy(Rackhost.co ; Dedicenter) to change another name and come back once again.

  • kyakykyaky Member
    edited October 2017

    @Edmond said:
    @gongyi Oh btw:

    So you might not get the full amount since you got a lot of canceled orders.... Just something you need to be aware...

    That's a very common excuse for providers after a very hard thinking of what excuse I can make for not paying especially after being exposed to the public. Cloudflxey didn't state the so-called "canceled orders" was the issue. They promised they would pay which means amount of money for the valid orders was recognized. I believe this is something to do with reputation. @gongyi has never had problem with providers from the OP's list. They are solid and reputable providers too as many people recognize.

  • kyakykyaky Member
    edited October 2017

    @Edmond said:
    @gongyi Oh btw:

    So you might not get the full amount since you got a lot of canceled orders.... Just something you need to be aware...

    I personally sold many products for VPSDIM and BACKUPSY for Oktay @serverian in the past 3 years.

    I didn't have any problem at all with Oktay's business. of coz there were still many cancelled orders. It didn't count in WHMCS affiliate system or there must be filtered out otherwise how can Oktay kept losing money and paid me? I think 3 months payment cycle avoiding chargeback is acceptable. As long as provider makes an agreement with marketing sites. If that's the case, what's making it so hard to say "we need to wait for the earning settle down" instead of ignoring the payout?

    I'm not an active affiliate guy taking this as a full time job, but the total affiliate earning from Oktay's business has been thousands dollars. I remember one time the payout was relative big, the customer support asked Oktay 's advice. Oktay asked me to wait for next month. I thought it was the settle down for some orders. They explained, I waited, I got paid.

    It's all about reputation, man.

  • kyakykyaky Member
    edited October 2017

    For whom believe the cancelled order was the issue, Gongyi just sent me an exported file from affiliate system showing the current active orders are $5000+ It's been months without being paid. He has a good resource of good reputable customers. It's not what you think bad consumers.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8dd9UVcSfsCY1dnT1Qtc241d2s/view?usp=sharing

  • @kyaky said:

    @Edmond said:
    @gongyi Oh btw:

    So you might not get the full amount since you got a lot of canceled orders.... Just something you need to be aware...

    I personally sold many products for VPSDIM and BACKUPSY for Oktay @serverian in the past 3 years.

    I didn't have any problem at all with Oktay's business. of coz there were still many cancelled orders. It didn't count in WHMCS affiliate system or there must be filtered out otherwise how can Oktay kept losing money and paid me? I think 3 months payment cycle avoiding chargeback is acceptable. As long as provider makes an agreement with marketing sites. If that's the case, what's making it so hard to say "we need to wait for the earning settle down" instead of ignoring the payout?

    I'm not an active affiliate guy taking this as a full time job, but the total affiliate earning from Oktay's business has been thousands dollars. I remember one time the payout was relative big, the customer support asked Oktay 's advice. Oktay asked me to wait for next month. I thought it was the settle down for some orders. They explained, I waited, I got paid.

    It's all about reputation, man.

    For affiliate, usually it's removed automatically, but it's not for them apparently, not sure why. For the prices they charge, they're incapable of paying out commissions, you can't live off of providing $5/yr 512MB OVZs (after coupon + commissions). Hardware cost money...

  • @Edmond said:

    @kyaky said:

    @Edmond said:
    @gongyi Oh btw:

    So you might not get the full amount since you got a lot of canceled orders.... Just something you need to be aware...

    I personally sold many products for VPSDIM and BACKUPSY for Oktay @serverian in the past 3 years.

    I didn't have any problem at all with Oktay's business. of coz there were still many cancelled orders. It didn't count in WHMCS affiliate system or there must be filtered out otherwise how can Oktay kept losing money and paid me? I think 3 months payment cycle avoiding chargeback is acceptable. As long as provider makes an agreement with marketing sites. If that's the case, what's making it so hard to say "we need to wait for the earning settle down" instead of ignoring the payout?

    I'm not an active affiliate guy taking this as a full time job, but the total affiliate earning from Oktay's business has been thousands dollars. I remember one time the payout was relative big, the customer support asked Oktay 's advice. Oktay asked me to wait for next month. I thought it was the settle down for some orders. They explained, I waited, I got paid.

    It's all about reputation, man.

    For affiliate, usually it's removed automatically, but it's not for them apparently, not sure why. For the prices they charge, they're incapable of paying out commissions, you can't live off of providing $5/yr 512MB OVZs (after coupon + commissions). Hardware cost money...

    That's their business model. They are trading profits for sales. Just like lots of starting companies' experience of expanding market. But that kind of selling model won't last long unless some investment follows. Yet, the lower profits or even losing money for the company should not be shared by marketing websites like @gongyi. So, all is about reputation and sticking to the (implied) contract.

    Thanked by 1gongyi
  • hope dama can get the money. what's your opinion @racksx ?

  • racksxracksx Member
    edited October 2017

    Hi,
    Sorry I have been not much active in the forum, as I was more busy help customers over the tickets, We cannot say that he did not send us customers, but a lot of them are just cancelling or asking for refunds even 30 days later, which we refunded due to PayPal disputes made by no reasons, I also paid him few times without even checking the orders and he was aware of that, I also told him that I need to check the orders one by one and for each completed order I will have him paid, we are working to new rules for our affiliate program this is why we also put a delay in paying everyone, not just him, we lost a lot of money due to people disputes, we will inform everyone about their affiliate status by the end of the month when we will also complete the payment.

    I did expect this post as he warned me about this.

    Our new design would be ready soon, which will also include the affiliate rules and terms and payout terms.

  • I'm a new visitor of LET but a old customer of zhujiceping.com
    It seemd you find gongyi to help you make ads and you set the 30% aff, and in the tos here said can be refund in 5 days, so it's unreasonable to refuse the aff which have refund after 30 days..
    One more thing , what's the usual term should wait for aff

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    Danielee said: I guess that's not problem with @gongyi. the money is part of a contract which stipulates how, when and by what way he/she will get paid. Each and every part in a contract shall act according to that contract.

    I was curious so I logged into a couple well-known providers who have affiliate programs. Maybe I agreed to something when I enrolled, but looking at several WHMCS, I can't find any agreement that governs the affiliate program.

    For example, looking at @Francisco 's WHMCS, TOS, and AUP, I don't see any language around the affiliate program. Same for CatalystHost and HostUs. There's some basic "how it works" language (payout at $300 for Catalyst LOL) but nothing I would call a "contract" or a legal agreement.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    5iidc said: I'm a new visitor of LET but a old customer of zhujiceping.com It seemd you find gongyi to help you make ads and you set the 30% aff, and in the tos here said can be refund in 5 days, so it's unreasonable to refuse the aff which have refund after 30 days.. One more thing , what's the usual term should wait for aff

    Customers can dispute paypal up to 180 days. So I think it'd be reasonable for providers to not pay affiliates for 6 months...right? After all, what's to prevent someone from loading up a bunch of garbage or fake accounts, taking all the affiliate money, and then canceling all the accounts?

  • raindog308 said: Customers can dispute paypal up to 180 days. So I think it'd be reasonable for providers to not pay affiliates for 6 months...right? After all, what's to prevent someone from loading up a bunch of garbage or fake accounts, taking all the affiliate money, and then canceling all the accounts?

    I wonder how provider can lost chargeback when they state in TOS 5 days for refund. Other case, like perf issue,if they are real, it's provider fault. I think it's right to pay referral in this case.

  • @raindog308 said:

    5iidc said: I'm a new visitor of LET but a old customer of zhujiceping.com It seemd you find gongyi to help you make ads and you set the 30% aff, and in the tos here said can be refund in 5 days, so it's unreasonable to refuse the aff which have refund after 30 days.. One more thing , what's the usual term should wait for aff

    Customers can dispute paypal up to 180 days. So I think it'd be reasonable for providers to not pay affiliates for 6 months...right? After all, what's to prevent someone from loading up a bunch of garbage or fake accounts, taking all the affiliate money, and then canceling all the accounts?

    Sounds reasonable.

    But, that depends on the agreement btw them and the convention in this industry. Problem is, they may agreed to pay affiliates within 3 or 5 or 30days, and the company had paid @gongyi by that rule already. So, @gongyi or other person may presumably thought that is the case, and expected to get affs in 3 or 5 or 30days. If policy changed or something other happed that forced @racksx to change the policy, there should be a formal announcement and certain period of time for the other party to consider to adapt to the new policy or not. I guess that is the right way to make this business model work and benefit both parties.

    That's my two cents.

    Thanks

    Thanked by 1racksx
  • @Danielee, you're right, we had no issues paying after 5 days, we caused us lot of problems after, we had a meeting and we decided to change the affiliates, we drafted a new policy which should be available with our new design, but due as technical issues IP blocked by China Great Firewall, we been more busy helping the users instead of focusing on the affiliates, we will have this corrected soon.

  • @racksx well if it shows up as a commissions amount even after it's canceled, it should be paid. Only reason why it shouldn't be paid is if it was automatically removed when the customer canceled the service.

  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran

    The only reason not to pay the commissions is if the client has chargeback the payment. Other than that, cancelled means that the client simply did not renew. Which still makes it eligible for a commission. IIRC WHMCS affiliate system wont show cancelled services for services that were never paid for upon signing up so I honestly think that this company is avoiding paying the commissions fairly. If they arent making a profit the affiliate shouldnt be liable for so.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @ben47955 said:

    raindog308 said: Customers can dispute paypal up to 180 days. So I think it'd be reasonable for providers to not pay affiliates for 6 months...right? After all, what's to prevent someone from loading up a bunch of garbage or fake accounts, taking all the affiliate money, and then canceling all the accounts?

    I wonder how provider can lost chargeback when they state in TOS 5 days for refund. Other case, like perf issue,if they are real, it's provider fault. I think it's right to pay referral in this case.

    We've seen our share of people that have tried to chargeback after they "Run out of money" to pay us. They use the service for a few months, put in support tickets, nothing but praise. A week after their cancellation processes the chargeback hits.

    Mind you, we win all of those since we keep a large sum of logs in Stallion, but now that customer won't be allowed to sign back up because they were dumbasses.

    Thankfully Karen took a liking to Fraudrecord so cases like that are now flagged for the masses.

    Francisco

  • sharknodsharknod Member
    edited October 2017

    @racksx said:
    Hi,
    Sorry I have been not much active in the forum, as I was more busy help customers over the tickets, We cannot say that he did not send us customers, but a lot of them are just cancelling or asking for refunds even 30 days later, which we refunded due to PayPal disputes made by no reasons, I also paid him few times without even checking the orders and he was aware of that, I also told him that I need to check the orders one by one and for each completed order I will have him paid, we are working to new rules for our affiliate program this is why we also put a delay in paying everyone, not just him, we lost a lot of money due to people disputes, we will inform everyone about their affiliate status by the end of the month when we will also complete the payment.

    I did expect this post as he warned me about this.

    Our new design would be ready soon, which will also include the affiliate rules and terms and payout terms.

    Then I am curious why the money he made under the old rules will be checked out under the new rules? Does it mean the new rules can save you about 4000 bucks?

    It's the providers' fault not to set the rules rught, so just pay him and take this as a lesson.

    Maybe it will work well when you come back with a new brand.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2017

    You shouldn't need a rule to not payout for a referral that you had to refund. It's a percentage. X% of 0 is zero. Correcting that is merely thorough accounting.

    Thanked by 1MikePT
  • kyakykyaky Member
    edited October 2017

    @racksx said:
    @Danielee, you're right, we had no issues paying after 5 days, we caused us lot of problems after, we had a meeting and we decided to change the affiliates, we drafted a new policy which should be available with our new design, but due as technical issues IP blocked by China Great Firewall, we been more busy helping the users instead of focusing on the affiliates, we will have this corrected soon.

    Do you actually check @gongyi 's affiliate sales list?

    Do you want him to calculate how many unpaid active sales already passed 2-3 months? how many unpaid sales already passed 1 month?

    So, is this still something to do with customer chargeback/fraud? can you please explain this?

    please make a better excuse if you haven't done your work.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8dd9UVcSfsCY1dnT1Qtc241d2s/view?usp=sharing

  • gongyigongyi Member
    edited October 2017

    27/04/2017~ 12/10/2017, affiliate sales list here :

    copy from https://www.dedicenter.com/my.affiliates

    https://app.box.com/s/b7zbthgm76w09eujbpb7s19zw51bcm1s

    here is the screenshot:
    https://app.box.com/s/xrd11zacdylq3mjvb0h54102ifd8pnyc

    Time : 01/05/2017 to 11/09/2017

    active :

    915 sales , Commission $3729.78

    Cancelled:
    838 sales , Commission $3633.70

    Fraud:

    12 sales , Commission $34.79

    pending :
    NONE

    Suspended:

    4 sales , Commission $11.28

    Terminated:
    79 sales , Commission 212.26

    12/09/2017~ 12/10/2017

    active sales : 179 , Commission $1273.74

    Cancelled sales :130, Commission $830.42

    Fraud 2 sales , Commission $11.55

    pending : 15 sales , Commission $112.50

    Suspended: NONE

    Terminated: 2 sales , Commission $34.63

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