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BuyVM Problem - Page 2
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BuyVM Problem

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Comments

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @travisapple said: Francisco, thanks for your reply. I don't know what this is about. What date did the first node lapse? What email was this tied to? I'd like to track this issue down if you have the time.

    You're welcome to contact [email protected] or reply to any tickets you still have open.

    Francisco

  • trewqtrewq Administrator, Patron Provider

    Dat multiposting

  • travisappletravisapple Member
    edited January 2013

    @Francisco said: trying to purchase on the account with the unpaid invoice, then creating a new account immediately after to order from without bothering to resolve the issue with us. Very blatant attempt to dodge TOS.

    No, as stated above, I created the new account to create a ticket. I was unable to contact you in any other way. I did not attempt to create a new purchase on the new account.

    @Francisco said: You're welcome to contact [email protected] or reply to any tickets you still have open.

    Very well. I couldn't find this email posted on any page of your site or anywhere else. I'll try to work it out with him via email and not on this page.

  • CVPS_ChrisCVPS_Chris Member, Patron Provider

    This makes no sense to me what so ever from a business stand point. I have never seen something so shady.

    Here is a hypothetical situation, I will let you be the judge:

    • So say I order a VPS for $20 a month.

    • After 4 months I decide I no longer need it but was satisfied with the service and could potentially come back and just let my service terminate. ( Like most people do )

    • 3 months later, something comes up and I need a VPS. I order for a year, $132. The payment goes through, and I get my details. An hour later, I get an email that my invoice was refunded but for only $112.

    • I then find out my $20 was stolen from an old service that was terminated and NEVER used and I can only have a service if I pay off the invoice from MONTHS ago.

    In this case, I have no problem with refused service because of an overdue invoice, but I do have a problem with the $20 being stolen. Both services were never used so I don't see how the $20 can be justified by BuyVM.

    I dont want to bash anyone, but I really see a problem here, and would even venture to say its illegal. All $132 should have been refunded if that was the route taken.

    Does anyone follow me, or are you just going to call me crazy?

    ***************************************DISCLAIMER***************************************
    I am not trying to bash, I just want to see if my feelings are legitimate.
    ***************************************DISCLAIMER***************************************

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited January 2013

    @travisapple said: No, as stated above, I created the new account to create a ticket. I was unable to contact you in any other way. I did not attempt to create a new purchase on the new account.

    If Aldryic made a mistake he'll be glad to realize it and correct it, he's a good guy. They all are. Anthony is a bit...overworked, but they're good guys. Stay calm in your interactions for the best result, seems like you're good at that, just keep that up. They are a big target for scammers and they've gotten very good at weeding them out, but you have to be militant about it to pull off their number of clients, prices, and number of staff, while maintaining the quality that they do.

  • @CVPS_Chris said: All $132 should have been refunded if that was the route taken.

    At this point, I've purchased a node from another provider that I'm quite happy with. I'd love to have that $20 back but it's only $20. I'm still a bit upset at the time wasted though.

  • @CVPS_Chris, if you don't cancel a VPS at the end of the month, then those resources are held up, in case you just forgot to pay and still want the VPS or need to retrieve data or whatever. The resources are, in effect, still being used. Therefore, it's only fair to pay for those resources.

  • AldryicAldryic Member
    edited January 2013

    ***************************************DISCLAIMER***************************************
    No, I am not 'coming back' to LET, there's still far too much childish drama from supposed adults here for my liking. Just clearing this issue up since Fran's out at the moment.
    ***************************************DISCLAIMER***************************************

    A complete log of the client's activities, with the emails he registered with obviously redacted for his privacy.

    06/30/2012 13:23 - Registered under travisapp[REDACTED]
    
    06/30/2012 13:23 - Ordered SJ 512OVZ (server2.pple.org)
    
    06/30/2012 13:24 - 512OVZ Provisioned
    
    08/16/2012 07:52 - 512OVZ Terminated for Nonpayment
    
    09/01/2012 02:42 - Attempted Order on travisapp[REDACTED], denied for outstanding invoice
    
    09/01/2012 02:49 - Registered new account under travis[REDACTED]
     - ^ And there is the willful violation of our TOS.  Like Fran said, should've just discussed the matter with us before trying to evade.
    
    09/01/2012 02:51 - Ordered SJ 512OVZ (remington)
    
    (After Fraud Module Updates)
    
    01/12/2013 11:16 - Attempted to order SJ 1024OVZ (client01)
    
    01/12/2013 11:49 - Opened ticket to client (416463) explaining the order cancellation, and duplicate accounts.  Accounts merged under the most recent email (@dreamsage.com).  This ticket was never answered by the client.
    
    01/12/2013 11:49 - Refund minus dues owed for outstanding invoice issued
    
    01/12/2013 12:00 - Registered under travisapp[REDACTED]
    
    01/12/2013 12:06 - Client opens ticket 470889 claiming ignorance of the situation.  Multiple accounts are once again merged into the latest, and the situation explained.  Again.
    
  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @CVPS_Chris said: I then find out my $20 was stolen from an old service that was terminated and NEVER used and I can only have a service if I pay off the invoice from MONTHS ago.

    You didn't read the TOS then. Our TOS says you must cancel a service and simply letting it get terminated by us doesn't count.

    Everyone clicks the 'i accept the AUP/TOS' button, but how many read it?

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @Aldryic said: from supposed adults

    Hey now, I have a name. Also, hell froze over tonight. Everyone take note.

    /wave

  • BK_BK_ Member

    @Francisco said: Everyone clicks the 'i accept the AUP/TOS' button, but how many read it?

    [Offtopic] I've always wondered what companies actually track people who've visited/spent more than five seconds on their TOS page. It'd be humorous to see what percentage of users just derpingly click I ACCEPTZ!!!!!!11!, IMO.

  • CVPS_ChrisCVPS_Chris Member, Patron Provider

    @Francisco said: You didn't read the TOS then. Our TOS says you must cancel a service and simply letting it get terminated by us doesn't count

    The ToS wouldnt hold up in court, it is illegal. You took funds used for one thing and implemented it to another non related service. The ToS is not an excuse to take someones money, especially on something that was not used.

    @NickM said: The resources are, in effect, still being used. Therefore, it's only fair to pay for those resources.

    For what 7 days? And that is totally up to the host on how long it is kept. If they want to be so "cheap" about it then just terminate on the first overdue day no questions asked.

    If someone has an overdue invoice with me and never pays and account terminated. I welcome them back, with open arms and do not expect money from before. It is totally ludicrous to think that this is ok, regardless of the situation.

    Then they are saying its "FRAUD". Since when does a provider get to keep fraud money if this is a legit claim?

    ***************************************DISCLAIMER***************************************
    I am not trying to bash, I just want to see if my feelings are legitimate.
    ***************************************DISCLAIMER***************************************

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @BK_ said: I've always wondered what companies actually track people who've visited/spent more than five seconds on their TOS page. It'd be humorous to see what percentage of users just derpingly click I ACCEPTZ!!!!!!11!, IMO.

    Funny, here's my first ticket with BuyVM:

    Jarland;

    >

    I'm currently in the process of revising our auditing procedures, hence the miswording in the documentation. Which, thank you for taking the time to read, btw. It's amazing how many people just blindly click 'I accept' without even bothering to look >_<

    >

    You should be receiving your VM Confirmation details shortly. Let us know if we can be of any further assistance.

    >
    >


    Aldryic C'boäs,

  • @CVPS_Chris said: If someone has an overdue invoice with me and never pays and account terminated. I welcome them back, with open arms and do not expect money from before. It is totally ludicrous to think that this is ok, regardless of the situation.

    so its allowed for me to pay 1 month, then do not pay for the second and then re-register again for one moth and do not for the 2nd? and so on?

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @fixidixi said: so its allowed for me to pay 1 month, then do not pay for the second and then re-register again for one moth and do not for the 2nd? and so on?

    50% off! :D

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @CVPS_Chris said: For what 7 days? And that is totally up to the host on how long it is kept. If they want to be so "cheap" about it then just terminate on the first overdue day no questions asked.

    We used to do this and people complained as well.

    As far as I know we hold it for 7 - 14 days.

    The difference between BuyVM and ChicagoVPS is that you load 125 2G's to a node and 'are never sold out', where as our nodes have very specific load outs.

    We can't just move that person into a 'holding node', since if that slot sells we're now overselling our resources.

    The policy is used by burstnet as well as far as I know, as well as many other dedi providers.

    Francisco

  • travisappletravisapple Member
    edited January 2013

    @Aldryic said: 06/30/2012 13:23 - Ordered SJ 512OVZ

    Yes you're right I'd for gotten about this. I paid for a month of one of your 512mb nodes to run a test on. I spent about 10 min total time testing it and then forgot about it. If this was what this entire issue was over then I'm a little disappointed. I do slightly remember trying to pick up the "remington" node and getting an error that I didn't really understand and creating an account. Please understand that I don't have a logfile like you do and so my memory of spending a few bucks 6 months ago isn't the best.

    @Francisco said: You didn't read the TOS then. Our TOS says you must cancel a service and simply letting it get terminated by us doesn't count.

    You also got me here as well. I didn't read your TOS in its entirety. Please cancel all services I have with your company at this time.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @travisapple said: If this was what this entire issue was over then I'm a little disappointed.

    Why?

    It's discipline. Countless customers of ours get VM's from other providers as well as us and take the things they've learned from our TOS (when to pay, best practice when cancelling a box, how not to be a dick on the node).

    The best part here is we even have a comic at the top of the page when you access the billing panel with an invoice due:

    http://i.imgur.com/djkcQ.png
    http://i.imgur.com/nffNW.png

    Come on, give me a break.

    Francisco

  • Unfortunately I would find that forgetting about it is your fault considering you get an Invoice well before it's due. You could have gone in to cancel it before it was actually due.

  • CVPS_ChrisCVPS_Chris Member, Patron Provider

    @Francisco,

    Dont talk about ChicagoVPS when you dont know diddly squat. Your trying to cover up the obvious unethical business you run by lies about us. I didnt want this to get nasty, but it can. Refund his $20 ( as its rightfully deserved ) and get this over with and change your policies.

    @fixidixi said: so its allowed for me to pay 1 month, then do not pay for the second and then re-register again for one moth and do not for the 2nd? and so on?

    How would you benefit from it? Your first VPS would be terminated, and you paid for your second VPS. How do you see yourself getting something for free?

  • @Francisco said: The best part here is we even have a comic at the top of the page

    That's fine. You win. I didn't read your TOS.

    At this point, I'm happy because I got an explanation about what really happened. Thanks to everyone (including reps from BuyVM) for your input. Signing out.

  • A good policy is to generate invoices in advance of the following month, with multiple warnings leading up to the due date and termination 24 hours after if not paid.

    That saves you from a couple weeks of having a shut down vm hanging around taking up capacity.

  • additionally if you have an invoice then you get email remainders to pay .. .. so i think 1. you should have had to dug up all you got with frantech before u made your first post (in gmail its pretty easily all mail from:frantech) and it would have been clear from start..
    not reading TOS and AUP is pretty damn wrong. do you really not read any agreement before signing it? i do not always read license infos in installed programs for example but when i make a contract then i take it seriously. even if its about a few bucks..

  • @fixidixi said: not reading TOS and AUP is pretty damn wrong. do you really not read any agreement before signing it? i do not always read license infos in installed programs for example but when i make a contract then i take it seriously. even if its about a few bucks..

    You're a funny little guy.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @unused said: A good policy is to generate invoices in advance of the following month, with multiple warnings leading up to the due date and termination 24 hours after if not paid.

    That saves you from a couple weeks of having a shut down vm hanging around taking up capacity.

    We generate them almost 2 weeks in advance but people are still bad about paying htem :)

    Francisco

  • @CVPS_Chris
    ordering a service, then not paying for it doesnt mean immediate termination as ive read. thats the whole point..

  • @gubbyte:
    what do you mean?

  • @Francisco yeah, you're being extra generous with a 14 days suspension period :-) Perhaps based on customer, ie if they've had over 12 months of paid invoices etc. let it go long, if they've just signed up delete immediately etc.

    Just food for thought anyway, the issue that occurred here is cut and dry.

  • CVPS_ChrisCVPS_Chris Member, Patron Provider

    @fixidixi said: ordering a service, then not paying for it doesnt mean immediate termination as ive read. thats the whole point..

    Alright, but Im not going to steal your money for past invoices. You can think your making out but your not. Your still paying for the second service in the same month period. That terminated account is suspended after 3 days ( meaning no resources are used ). So if you want to go through all that trouble for 3 extra days, go for it. This will RARELY happen. You are missing the point, please go back to my first post on my hypothetical situation.

  • CVPS_ChrisCVPS_Chris Member, Patron Provider

    @unused said: cut and dry.

    Cut and dry highway robbery

This discussion has been closed.