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BuyVM Problem
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BuyVM Problem

travisappletravisapple Member
edited January 2013 in General

I’ve been a lurker here at LET for about a year and after hearing all the good reviews about BuyVM I decided to pick up a node a few months ago. I paid with Paypal and the node showed good performance. A few months went by and I needed another bigger node and so I went to BuyVM and bought another one using the same BuyVM account and PP account.

At this point, I experienced some of the most bizarre customer service I’ve ever seen from any company. This could be due to the owner, Francisco, is in the middle of moving the LA servers to LV and he might have had some temp workers answering emails at the time. The following happened on Jan 12th.

1: A few minutes after ordering one new node and one spare IP and paying my bill (for a year) I received an email from paypal saying that $112 of my $132 of my payment was refunded.

2: Clearly this was a mistake so went to log into my BuyVM account and found it deleted.

3: Having no other way to contact them I created another account so I could create a ticket. I can’t paste the resulting ticket here because BuyVM deleted this account too after the following discussion.

4: I explained what happened. I got a response in about 10 minutes from “Anthony” telling me to read a page on their site about how they delete accounts when there was fraud.

5: I replied (honestly and politely as I could) explaining how I was an existing customer and how I didn’t try to defraud them. I didn’t match any of the things listed on the page he sent. I used the exact same paypal account as the previous node a few months earlier. There was no change in my contact info.

6: He answered, “We don’t do business with people who commit fraud.”

7: I replied back asking what about my account was suspected of fraud and asked to have the remaining $20 refunded if they simply didn’t want my business.

8: A few hours later I got this in an email, signed by a “Aldryic C'boäs”:
“This issue was clearly explained in ticket 416463. As you have yet violated our Terms of Service AGAIN by opening yet another duplicate account, there will be no further negotiations. Any further attempts at opening multiple accounts will simply result in you being permanently banned from service with us.”

9: The second account was then deleted. At this point I have no way of contacting any representative at BuyVM. I still have a node there (3 months left on it) and they have made it clear that they would delete that if I made another account or tried to contact them.

I’m posting this here because LET led me to become a customer of BuyVM in the first place. I’ve since bought another node at another company (paying with the same PP account) and have had no problems. I understand that a good number of you won’t believe this story because only Francisco can confirm it and there’s little chance of that. I suppose this is a cautionary tale in that not everything about the company is great. The performance of the other node was good but this experience has been laughable.

Info about me:

  • American, California. Not using a VPN.
  • Over 21
  • PP account is clean and verified and has been around for 10+ years
  • Never contacted BuyVM support prior to this.
  • Didn’t use a throwaway email account. This is my primary email and it’s the same as is on my PP account.
  • The physical address tied to my PP account is the same as was on my BuyVM account.
  • Existing node has not been hacked and nothing strange is going on with it.

What if I need tech support on this other node?

How do I get my remaining $20 back? PP chargebacks are pretty shady and this is only for a last resort.

Can I assume that this is not an isolated thing since two different admins reviewed the situation?

«13456

Comments

  • IshaqIshaq Member
    edited January 2013

    Well, I don't work for them, or don't know what's going from their view, but you seem legit.

    @Francisco here might be able to help.

  • Did you purchase your second VPS with your main account or did you open a new client account to make that purchase? Sometimes their rules confuse people, don't feel let down by it.

    Also flagging @francisco to try and help you out.

  • AlexBarakovAlexBarakov Patron Provider, Veteran

    How are you able to keep your node if you account is deleted?
    To me it sounds like you had 1 account and created a new one for the new order?

  • BK_BK_ Member

    Linked @Francisco to this in IRC. He hasn't acknowledged it though yet.

    Don't worry, they're good people. I'm sure you'll be taken care of :)

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    Here's what the guys said about your story:

    [4:59:25 PM] Francisco: could someone please fill me in on http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/7399/buyvm-problem
    [4:59:44 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: Let me have a peek
    [5:00:50 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: Ah, ok, I remember this guy.
    [5:01:02 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: He had a service terminated for nonpayment, never paid the invoice
    [5:01:12 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: logged into his account, tried to order, was blocked by the unpaid invoice
    [5:01:22 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: proceeded to open a new account the same day and order.
    [5:02:04 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: I caught the duplicate, merged his accounts. Since he blatantly tried to dodge the old invoice, I marked it as paid from his recent order, refunded the remaining balance, explained what happened via support ticket.
    [5:02:41 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: (no accounts were deleted, only merged. He likely assumed deletion since merging accounts means you can't login with the second email anymore, so I always made sure the merged account had the latest email he used)
    [5:03:21 PM] bzImage: pony wont nuke accounts with dues if they are an established client
    [5:03:24 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: He proceeded to immediately open yet another account, and tried again. At which point I warned him again about the multiple accounts.

  • That sounds more logical. I agree with Aldryic

  • I agree with Aldryic

  • TheLinuxBugTheLinuxBug Member
    edited January 2013

    The only confusing part to me is the OP said that he had 3 months left on his existing service, if this is the case, how can their be an outstanding invoice that hasn't been paid? Are they forcing him to renew his existing account before allowing him to sign-up for another? There is defiantly some information missing from this story.....

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran
    edited January 2013

    @TheLinuxBug said: The only confusing part to me is the OP said that he had 3 months left on his existing service, if this is the case, how can their be an outstanding invoice that hasn't been paid? Are they forcing him to renew his existing account before allowing him to sign-up for another? There is defiantly some information missing from this story.....

    If he has an unpaid invoice from before it means that he ordered service at a previous time and didn't close the service properly. We still had to hold onto that spot for a few weeks.

    Invoices always come a week or so in advance. I think yearly vm's bill 2 - 4 weeks before head just to give people time.

    EDIT - I actually got word from Aldryic. So it looks like he had a a previous account before the one where he had service on. They ordered before Aldryic got his latest major overhaul of our fraud system in place. Once the accounts merged, the account that was in good standing picked up the unpaid invoice from the bad one.

    Francisco

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Yep, this is a problem here too, have people with many accounts either because they wanted to get some promo that was one per account, they were afraid to be cancelled if one VM was caught breaking rules or had unpaid invoices.
    In case of violations like spam and the like, I close all their services I can find, if only for unpaid invoices, well, I forget to close the services properly sometimes too, so, I can understand if it happens once for a returning customer... But those people will not be having the benefit of the doubt when something happens later.
    And in the case of promos one per account, that is legacy only, we dont do those anymore exactly because of this, it is too much trouble to play police.

  • Have to say, Aldryic and Anthony keep a very tight ship running with their billing, which is exceptional considering the amount of stuff Francisco breaks.

    Every time I see one of these kinds of threads (not that there's many), Francisco always pops up with more than adequate logs to clear up the story.

    That's good team work.

    @travisapple said: I understand that a good number of you won’t believe this story because only Francisco can confirm it and there’s little chance of that.

    I see the bait right there.

  • @Francisco said: I actually got word from Aldryic. So it looks like he had a a previous account before the one where he had service on. They ordered before Aldryic got his latest major overhaul of our fraud system in place. Once the accounts merged, the account that was in good standing picked up the unpaid invoice from the bad one.

    So, if they had an account in good standing why go on a shitfest with them then? I understand needing to keep policies in line, but perhaps the user didn't remember having an unpaid invoice on another account?

    Suddenly freaking out because a client wants to purchase another product from you when they like your services isn't the way customer service works..

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @MrObvious said: So, if they had an account in good standing why go on a shitfest with them then? I understand needing to keep policies in line, but perhaps the user didn't remember having an unpaid invoice on another account?

    As Aldryic said, there was 'obvious proof he was dodging', be it login attempt logs, etc.

    Aldryic's tough but he's also more than reasonable and works things out with people all the time. Sometimes they get the invoice nuked, sometimes chopped back a lot, or a payment plan if they're tight budget wise.

    He doesn't take kindly to people trying to circumvent the system though.

    Francisco

  • MunMun Member

    @MrObvious said: @Francisco said: I actually got word from Aldryic. So it looks like he had a a previous account before the one where he had service on. They ordered before Aldryic got his latest major overhaul of our fraud system in place. Once the accounts merged, the account that was in good standing picked up the unpaid invoice from the bad one.

    So, if they had an account in good standing why go on a shitfest with them then? I understand needing to keep policies in line, but perhaps the user didn't remember having an unpaid invoice on another account?

    Suddenly freaking out because a client wants to purchase another product from you when they like your services isn't the way customer service works..

    Ughh? Did you read the full context of the post.

    @travisapple said: I’ve been a lurker here at LET for about a year and after hearing all the good reviews about BuyVM I decided to pick up a node a few months ago. I paid with Paypal and the node showed good performance. A few months went by and I needed another bigger node and so I went to BuyVM and bought another one using the same BuyVM account and PP account.

    Here he states he is using the service, assume he means actively.

    @Francisco said: Here's what the guys said about your story:

    [4:59:25 PM] Francisco: could someone please fill me in on http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/7399/buyvm-problem

    [4:59:44 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: Let me have a peek
    [5:00:50 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: Ah, ok, I remember this guy.
    [5:01:02 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: He had a service terminated for nonpayment, never paid the invoice
    [5:01:12 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: logged into his account, tried to order, was blocked by the unpaid invoice
    [5:01:22 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: proceeded to open a new account the same day and order.
    [5:02:04 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: I caught the duplicate, merged his accounts. Since he blatantly tried to dodge the old invoice, I marked it as paid from his recent order, refunded the remaining balance, explained what happened via support ticket.
    [5:02:41 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: (no accounts were deleted, only merged. He likely assumed deletion since merging accounts means you can't login with the second email anymore, so I always made sure the merged account had the latest email he used)
    [5:03:21 PM] bzImage: pony wont nuke accounts with dues if they are an established client
    [5:03:24 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: He proceeded to immediately open yet another account, and tried again. At which point I warned him again about the multiple accounts.

    Here he merges the account and informs the customer that there is an issue with him making multiple accounts after he makes another one.

    @Francisco said: EDIT - I actually got word from Aldryic. So it looks like he had a a previous account before the one where he had service on. They ordered before Aldryic got his latest major overhaul of our fraud system in place. Once the accounts merged, the account that was in good standing picked up the unpaid invoice from the bad one.

    Francisco

    Here he explains that the fruad system was doing its job...

    I don't see where they went ape? They are running a business.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    Right from the horse's mouth

    [5:51:37 PM] Aldryic C'boäs: as a reply to MrObvious, you can tell them that system logs clearly showed the guy trying to purchase on the account with the unpaid invoice, then creating a new account immediately after to order from without bothering to resolve the issue with us. Very blatant attempt to dodge TOS.

    Francisco

  • I trust Aldryic's words more than OP's. He takes care of me very well in all my issues.

  • I hate you for that video now, Fran... ;-)
    How shall I sleep with that sound in mind?

  • Nick_ANick_A Member, Top Host, Host Rep

    BuyVM is terrible and Francisco is a horrible owner!

    :D

  • MunMun Member

    @Nick_A I know of a customer that hates your service....

  • Nick_ANick_A Member, Top Host, Host Rep

    @Mun said: @Nick_A I know of a customer that hates your service....

    Not sure if you're serious or what, but I was clearly joking about Fran. I have two BuyVMs.

  • @Nick_A said: I have two BuyVMs.

    One for each testicle?

  • MunMun Member

    I am tired of providers pissing on each other.... ( so though you maybe joking it is common to be an a-hole on LET, and it isn't just you. )

  • BK_BK_ Member
    edited January 2013

    Hey, hey, it was obvious sarcasm.

    Both @Nick_A and @Francisco provide exceptional service :)

  • Nick_ANick_A Member, Top Host, Host Rep

    @Mun said: I am tired of providers pissing on each other.... ( so though you maybe joking it is common to be an a-hole on LET, and it isn't just you. )

    Do you usually see people criticize a host and then put a :D immediately afterward?...

    I think anyone who keeps up with this forum can tell that Fran and I have a very amicable relationship on here. I'll just chalk this up to a misunderstanding.

    Although, on a serious (maybe?) note, whoever that customer is you're referring to, I'd love for you to have him contact me.

  • I hear ramnode have old and very slow hardware =)

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited January 2013

    I am tired of providers pissing on each other....

    ...

    I know of a customer that hates your service....

    ...

    Links: Gaming-Servers.net · Town-Assembly.com · DidYouTryRestartingIt?

    Well that was my humor for the night.

  • Sorry, I had a dinner date with the wife. Back now and will try to field some of this stuff.

    @miTgiB said: Did you purchase your second VPS with your main account or did you open a new client account to make that purchase? Sometimes their rules confuse people, don't feel let down by it.

    I made the purchase with my first account. The only other account I ever made was the second account as described above. If a BuyVM rep could PM me the email on the other account that was supposed to be mine then maybe we could figure out what's going on. I have no access to any account at buyVM at this point.

  • @Alex_LiquidHost said: How are you able to keep your node if you account is deleted?

    To me it sounds like you had 1 account and created a new one for the new order?

    The ticketing system is somewhat separate from the node management system. Different username/password for each. I still have a working node management login.

  • @Francisco said: I caught the duplicate, merged his accounts. Since he blatantly tried to dodge the old invoice, I marked it as paid from his recent order, refunded the remaining balance, explained what happened via support ticket.

    Francisco, thanks for your reply. I don't know what this is about. What date did the first node lapse? What email was this tied to? I'd like to track this issue down if you have the time.

  • @SonicVPS said: I see the bait right there.

    I won't deny it. I was a little frustrated at the time of writing.

This discussion has been closed.