Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


Startcom Allegedly Purchased by WoSign - Page 2
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

Startcom Allegedly Purchased by WoSign

2»

Comments

  • @Microlinux said:

    @ManofServer said:
    in many aspects Chinese political leadership and social rules are fundamentally similar to how the USSR operated and is a living proof that alternative political systems can in fact work and be competitive

    You can make just about any political system "work" and be "competitive". The relevant question is at what cost are these things accomplished?

    and that's why people don't want China to be regarded the same politically as the EU or US.

    Er, China is not regarded as politically the same as the EU or US because they have a different political system . . .

    The "cost" is a subjective measurement, what is a "cost" to you may be a benefit to a Chinese person, only the end results can be viably measured to prove/disprove a point.

    I mean, for example look at this photo. It has Blessed tanks, Battle priests and everything else a guy can dream of - yet some would be appalled, so you never know

  • @William said:

    jarland said: I can have as many daughters as I want without being forced by law to murder them. No need for debate :P

    Uh, you... what? What law should that be?

    Forced abortion is a thing of the past in the PRC and was even then rare and not gender but much more policy related (one child policy),

    thank you

    Aborting girls is a cultural thing mostly as a boy is seen as provider for the family and prestige, the CENTRAL government (where it has full power control) does not like it at all as it also drops the gender rates which the technocrats - 100% correct - see as an issue for the future (and they plan ahead for around 50-100 years as you can see on the long term plans).

    and the central gov have been panicking for some time about the rising 'lack of wives' leading to first the 2 child policy if a girl came first, and then the abandonment of the policy.

    jarland said: It may not be "true" communism

    No. It is not. As per the definition of real communism (which is impossible to achieve by limits of humans in mostly empathy and conscience but let's not get into that) Marx and extensions/differences in of eg. Lenin or Trotsky and some of the GDR party kadre (they wrote a LOT of books) it simply cannot be and never was.

    This is one hell of a stretch - there is ZERO evidence to support this. One of the prerequisites Marx listed as essential for communism is industrialisation, another is a surplus as found in industrialised countries, but no industrialised country has ever successfully ATTEMPTED to implement a communist, socialist or anarchist system for any period of time. The so called communist countries were all impoverished peasant agrarian societies attempting to skip the captalist stage, which marx listed as utterly NECESSARY before communism can occur.
    I am not saying it can happen, or it would be good,m just that there is actually no data to support your assertion - Marx would have told you those revolutions would be utter disasters and lead to greater inequity and authoritarianism.

    jarland said: I do not trust Internet safety to a country that goes to such efforts to ensure a lack of privacy and access to information on its entire population

    I would advise to check your browser certificate store, you might find some surprises, China - Turkey - South Africa - Taiwan among others.

    Not to mention all those sweet NSA backdoors and weaknesses that they worked so hard to insert into public key cryptography

  • @jarland said:
    The Great Firewall and I can have as many daughters as I want without being forced by law to murder them. No need for debate :P

    I can only agree this party, my lord.... :-)

    Everyone hates GFW, that's the first reason why I came LEB/LET for building up my own vpn.

    About the second part.... you need to update your knowledge about that. Now you can legally have two children, no matter daughters or sons (just curious do you where get that idea we force people to kill daughters??....) Even before that, If you pay for the social penalty, your child will have official identity, but if you don't then wait for several more years, nobody really kill someone for this, at least for my 25 years old life, I haven't seen it or heard it happen. (I did hear it happen in my parents' age when the rule applied early stage, and they didn't kill people or children, they force to lose public gov or big corp's job.)

    One-Child rule now just changed to TWO-CHILDREN rule, but both of them are guilty in terms of basic "human right"(American politicization favorite terms for China, lol). My age is the only generation who are alone without brother or sisters in Chinese history, I don't think anyone may be more eager than us to have someone grown up with you. This policy also comes with two side: bright one, pls consider a non-exist 1.8 billion China and a non-exist war because of Chinese-can-not-feed-themselves-so-they-invade; dark side, which is we are beginning to suffer. Today in China, Even you can have a second child, young generation doesn't want to due to the high cost of raising Child in a quality way. China has not been developed but has to face those problem that developed ones bother, like aging of population. As quiet a few scholars claimed, when fertility rate decline to a certain point, it will never go up again....

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited September 2016

    colingpt said: you need to update your knowledge about that

    Yeah I guess I'm a bit behind, had no idea that had changed some. That's great to hear. The stories about people smuggling their children outside of the country in hopes that they could actually live a life at all are just heartbreaking. I've been hearing these stories for years. It's still not freedom, and I'm sure it's still breaking people's hearts. I'm sure people are still smuggling their third child out of the country.

    But anyway, I guess the GFW is more than sufficient to justify my conclusion to myself.

    Thanked by 1mycosys
  • mycosysmycosys Member
    edited September 2016

    @jarland said:

    colingpt said: you need to update your knowledge about that

    Yeah I guess I'm a bit behind, had no idea that had changed some. That's great to hear. The stories about people smuggling their children outside of the country in hopes that they could actually live a life at all are just heartbreaking. I've been hearing these stories for years. It's still not freedom, and I'm sure it's still breaking people's hearts. I'm sure people are still smuggling their third child out of the country.

    But anyway, I guess the GFW is more than sufficient to justify my conclusion to myself.

    The medical system over there is enough of a tragedy, if you read 'China's 2st century eunuchs' from vice magazine (yes very gonzo, but the ljnks prove their point is utterly valid - a vid from a chinese 'medical manufacturer' was just mind boggling as an electronic engineering tech - 2 of their main claims for each machine were that they were grounded and the PSU had sufficient capacity. The machines were using HF RF external heating (yes literally a big CB radio) or red light (literally nothing more than red light) according to the manufacturer themselves, and according to the manufacturer, the 'journo' and his witnesses these machines are near ubiquitous.

    oh yeah - to add to the mind boggling their top models boast the added feature of AMPLITUDE MODULATION!!! their 'entry' level treatments are CW

    Thanked by 2jar ihatetonyy
  • Sorry to put it like this but it is so amusing seeing you guys arguing about what China is like in this way.

    Let's keep the topic back to WoSign and leave the political parts in the Cest Pit thread, or have another thread about this: there are quite a lot of Chinese around here, why not ask them about what's going on?

    My thought about this WoSign drama is: now we know

    • StartSSL is being controlled by WoSign, on the contrast of having WoSign as one of the partners(a who belongs to who problem)

    • WoSign is pretty crappy about security, respecting the fact that any CA is there to ensure the security of the Internet while fighting against the govn't 's surveillance in a way

    • It seems that WoSign is somehow closely related to 360, the damned evil company(to put it in a nice way) who is well-known to be involved in invading user's privacy, as well as actively participating the mass surveillance project of the Chinese govn't, including but not limited to building the GFW

    For me this is good enough to alert me that I should remove their root cert out of my machine.

    BTW, @jarland thank you for be so faithful in China, but if I were you I won't trust the govn't so much.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited September 2016

    cnbeining said: leave the political parts in the Cest Pit thread

    To some degree yes, but there's definitely some politics related to the technical aspects of encryption right now in our time and I think it's okay to go into some of that. We're not at each others throats or anything so that's good :)

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 2016

    So apparently, @iTK98 is now being threatened with legal action by WoSign, and Richard Wang (the WoSign CEO) is trying to prevent further spreading of the information by claiming that every third-party redistribution would make the penalties for @iTK98 more severe (which is something that I very, very strongly doubt).

    I'd say that this idiocy is enough reason not to trust WoSign anymore.

    (More information about the incident can be found here, by the way.)

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @joepie91 said:
    So apparently, @iTK98 is now being threatened with legal action by WoSign, and Richard Wang (the WoSign CEO) is trying to prevent further spreading of the information by claiming that every third-party redistribution would make the penalties for @iTK98 more severe (which is something that I very, very strongly doubt).

    I'd say that this idiocy is enough reason not to trust WoSign anymore.

    (More information about the incident can be found here, by the way.)

    That's just grand. I noticed that yesterday when he edited his post early in the morning. I found his reply a bit weird here tbh, but when he removed it I removed my quote of it as a courtesy. Hope he's alright.

  • Funny that you have problem with it being taken over by China but totally okay with being owned by Israel ... Kek.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited September 2016

    @dotted said:
    Funny that you have problem with it being taken over by China but totally okay with being owned by Israel ... Kek.

    As a US citizen, tell me which of the two countries you believe is more likely see me as more of a cultural or economic threat. It's about position. In my position, China is more of a concern for me in relation to privacy and security than Israel. Will that be true forever? Probably not, everything changes. Today, this is my situation.

    Not actually as amusing as you thought. Rather boring, actually.

  • @jarland said:

    @dotted said:
    Funny that you have problem with it being taken over by China but totally okay with being owned by Israel ... Kek.

    As a US citizen, tell me which of the two countries you believe is more likely see me as more of a cultural or economic threat. It's about position. In my position, China is more of a concern for me in relation to privacy and security than Israel. Will that be true forever? Probably not, everything changes. Today, this is my situation.

    So, this whole thing/thread is subjective ...

    Not actually as amusing as you thought. Rather boring, actually.

    Well, that again depends on your position :p

    Funny in my case since I just watched an old documentary about Stuxnet.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited September 2016

    @dotted said:

    @jarland said:

    @dotted said:
    Funny that you have problem with it being taken over by China but totally okay with being owned by Israel ... Kek.

    As a US citizen, tell me which of the two countries you believe is more likely see me as more of a cultural or economic threat. It's about position. In my position, China is more of a concern for me in relation to privacy and security than Israel. Will that be true forever? Probably not, everything changes. Today, this is my situation.

    So, this whole thing/thread is subjective ...

    No, just my opinion and my reasons for it. Is that a problem? You should consider the context of my position and consider it just that, my position.

    Not actually as amusing as you thought. Rather boring, actually.

    Well, that again depends on your position :p

    Funny in my case since I just watched an old documentary about Stuxnet.

    I wouldn't claim that the US or Israel has no interest in violating privacy or security, only that I am less likely a target of interest to Israel, and I also claim incompetence from the US government in their ability to stand intellectually equal to the private sector in their own country.

    So that explains a little of why I'm concerned about China but kind of "meh" about Israel. I suspect I'm not alone, many people here from the US as well :)

    Thanked by 1GoatSeller
  • @joepie91 said:
    So apparently, @iTK98 is now being threatened with legal action by WoSign, and Richard Wang (the WoSign CEO) is trying to prevent further spreading of the information by claiming that every third-party redistribution would make the penalties for @iTK98 more severe (which is something that I very, very strongly doubt).

    I'd say that this idiocy is enough reason not to trust WoSign anymore.

    (More information about the incident can be found here, by the way.)

    WoSign's sh*t is spreading even in China:

    http://www.ithome.com/html/it/254688.htm

    (ITHome is a major IT website in China)

  • jarland said: As a US citizen, tell me which of the two countries you believe is more likely see me as more of a cultural or economic threat. It's about position. In my position, China is more of a concern for me in relation to privacy and security than Israel. Will that be true forever? Probably not, everything changes. Today, this is my situation.

    Oh boy.

    From a gov point (so we assume companies in either country are rather loyal to their users and don't just sell access/data outside of gov order, in that point IL wins especially on US sourced data): It's not.

    Israel is a whole other level than China plus there is the religious nonsense to the extreme*3 on top.

    Difference is simple - If the Mossad uses this data no one will shit on them, and even then there will be no penalties (arguably Israel does much worse on a human rights point with none). If China uses it there would be severe consequences, either international-legal (sanction wise, unlikely but possible, any UN LEGAL military action would be impossible due to the security council seat) or just again more trust issues and thus economic damage. The Chinese central government as well as the party (which are not one another) are not interested in either of this.

    I actually think the Chinese gov cares more about their locals than the US - The US spies on foreigners, the Chinese spy local. The US companies export exploited hardware, the Chinese use their own hardware with designed taps/etc - Their export hardware is scrutinized and likely fairly clean even if the coding and efficiency (grading probably like E and coverage 60% lol) is utter shit.

    mycosys said: This is one hell of a stretch

    eh, not an expert on communism (and i don't see how it can ever work, human psychology just does not work like that) - yea, it is possible for them (or in fact anyone else) to get the point of full, however they are not near it (neither is anyone else) at this time and don't claim to be either. I don't think the party claims the need for this or the "target" either anymore but that still seems to be the plan behind.

    mycosys said: The medical system over there is enough of a tragedy

    PRC is pretty horrible (you can get better care in a few countries in Africa), Cuba managed well and seems to be a rare exception of post-Soviet influence sphere/communist aligned or based countries - All others failed in health (not too sure about the Soviet health system but i don't remember reading it was exceptional, and even if partly it likely sourced from their sphere majorly).

    cnbeining said: StartSSL is being controlled by WoSign, on the contrast of having WoSign as one of the partners(a who belongs to who problem)

    From what i know the majority owner of Thawte is not even known (and there are quite a bunch of root certs from companies with unknown owners or plainly obvious front people or lawyers as owners) - This "problem" seems to be seen as far more drama than real issue.

    Multiple large tech firms are now Chinese owned, Chinese controlled or substantially Chinese financed.

    The Qatari and Saudi state funds (among UAE and so on) are heavily investing in technology and some of these funds hold major positions in such usually seated by a local sheikh or high gov appointment (VW i think, should be a good example, other German companies as well) - They are far more worrying than some Chinese semi private company.

    Thanked by 1mycosys
  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 2016

    I've made an overview of past incidents with various Certificate Authorities - it can be found here. It of course also includes the current WoSign/StartCom mess.

    Contributions welcome :)

Sign In or Register to comment.