Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


Wable Changes - Hourly Billing - Powerboost Perks Removed! - Page 3
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

Wable Changes - Hourly Billing - Powerboost Perks Removed!

13

Comments

  • HackedServerHackedServer Member
    edited May 2016

    To me the idea that this is all because of bundle 3 powerboost "abusers" is complete bull.

    If it was really so detrimental to them, why even to this day are they still selling bundle 3 half off and highlighted? (http://i.imgur.com/SjvQta7.png) Its even their pinned tweet. (http://i.imgur.com/JNPdUQ8.png)
    They were still pushing their powerboost at least in December. (http://i.imgur.com/8aKU3pn.png) Does anyone know if it was working more recently than that?

    There is really nothing stopping them from having powerboost not apply to bundle 3.
    Despite how bad the combination seems to be for them, they continued to offer it and plenty of Incero's posts are telling customers to buy bundle 3 and add powerboost. At one point at least they thought it was sustainable. (http://i.imgur.com/OIgAeDH.png)

    "This change will give customers the flexibility they have been demanding, and it will eliminate the massive amount of multiple bundle #3 abuse."
    http://i.imgur.com/oe8QAu6.png

    Funnily enough, I don't see anyone requesting hourly billing on their UserVoice page (https://wable.uservoice.com/forums/245224-general/filters/top). More importantly, one of the top requests is for an API. I don't believe in the slightest that Wable has so many clients with a need for hourly billing so they can deploy 100 VMs for 3 hours. Why would they buy a $600/m+ bundle instead of using AWS, DO, or any of the other cloud providers that are built to support this? And then sit there for so long manually spinning up VMs.

    I keep hearing of this split between LET being an insignificant portion of their business, and LET powerboosters being large enough to cause them issues with "abuse" of bundle 3. Of course abuse means owning bundle 3 and using the "dedicated" resources that come with it and continues to be sold.

    "We love bundle #3 customers, don't get me wrong. :-)"
    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/1116471/#Comment_1116471

    "Honestly, even without overselling we will make more profit on vps than we ever have with dedicated servers."
    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/528793/#Comment_528793

    I don't think that an hourly billing model is a bad move by them (assuming they get an API), and the prices aren't horrible (would be better if it wasn't openvz), but I don't believe their excuses for why they switched. I can only guess that they didn't get the userbase they had planned for and now need to abandon their sales tactic as they weren't getting the upsales that they needed to sustain them. Branding the people that bought their service as abusers ruining it for everyone else served to get the blind fans attacking anyone that disagrees with the decision.

    Yes, I have bundle 3 with powerboost. I'm not even using all of my resources, but my bill will be $22/m if I continue (I certainly won't be). When I got it, it wasn't because Incero was saying "buy this if you want Wable to fail", it was because it was a deal they offered. There are plenty of other hosts who under-price themselves to gain a customer base and they get crucified by this community, and taking advantage of their sale is seen as just, but with Wable that is reversed.

    How Gordon is able to get away with constantly abusing his customers, increasing prices on short notice, and the other numerous events that have cropped up over the years, and yet still maintain such a raging fan base honestly astounds me. He really knows how to play the LET game.

    edit: spelling

  • squibssquibs Member

    So how much will bundle 3 with powerboost cost now?

  • MunMun Member

    Effectively this ended with... Incero is moving on boys, and honestly done very professionally in considering this is LET.

    Thanked by 1SpeedyKVM
  • halczyhalczy Member

    @squibs said:
    So how much will bundle 3 with powerboost cost now?

    $8 month -> $135 month for me.

  • Maybe support resources will now be allocated equally. The powerboost zone was like being the red-headed stepchildren.

    The upgrade pricing for additional CPU seems a little steep though.

    Thanked by 1SpeedyKVM
  • SpeedyKVMSpeedyKVM Banned, Member

    Thanks for the feedback, we are still tweaking things, and listening to feedback from our customers in our ticket system.

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1688844648044232&id=1407513069510726

    We heard you all loud and clear, we are still tweaking the pricing that starts on June 1st. Some adjustments have just been put in place to massively reduce add-on CPU and RAM costs, we also reduced the thresholds required for reaching discount tiers ( https://wable.com/faq#faq-37 ).
    We encourage feedback and discussion in our TICKET SYSTEM ([email protected]).
    Please check your billing at https://wable.com and contact [email protected] with any questions.

  • After dropping 2 cpus and 4gb of ram from my server, I'd still be paying ~4X what I was. I'll be moving on, wable. Your boxes weren't that great anyway. Uptime for last 30 days: 99.938%

    Thanked by 1SpeedyKVM
  • RadiRadi Host Rep, Veteran

    I want to buy Bundle 3 now with powerboost and keep it as an existing customer.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @Radi said:
    I want to buy Bundle 3 now with powerboost and keep it as an existing customer.

    That's....not how this works...?

    Francisco

  • SpeedyKVMSpeedyKVM Banned, Member

    https://www.facebook.com/1407513069510726/photos/a.1412950622300304.1073741829.1407513069510726/1688887448039952/?type=3&theater

    Our homepage (when logged out) has been updated with the new reduced pricing (before discounts). Discounts are detailed here; https://wable.com/faq#faq-37

    Direct any questions to [email protected]

    Thanked by 1Lee
  • SpeedyKVMSpeedyKVM Banned, Member
    edited May 2016

    @NodePing said:
    After dropping 2 cpus and 4gb of ram from my server, I'd still be paying ~4X what I was. I'll be moving on, wable. Your boxes weren't that great anyway. Uptime for last 30 days: 99.938%

    ICMP and other common DDoS payloads are rate limited on our network. Thank you.

  • SpeedyKVMSpeedyKVM Banned, Member

    Any further questions please email [email protected] I believe all that needs answering here has been answered.

  • LeeLee Veteran

    Incero said: Our homepage (when logged out) has been updated

    Far more palatable.

  • Incero said: ICMP and other common DDoS payloads are rate limited on our network.

    So you delete my server just minutes after I post. I smell bridges burning.

  • MatthewMMatthewM Member
    edited May 2016

    @NodePing said:

    Incero said: ICMP and other common DDoS payloads are rate limited on our network.

    So you delete my server just minutes after I post. I smell bridges burning.

    Wable are known for this.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited May 2016

    NodePing said: So you delete my server just minutes after I post. I smell bridges burning.

    Wow. So is NodePing a no-good abuser too? I hope no one still uses these kids for hosting. You can choose your clients, but when you terminate customers who are legitimately using the service, and don't even give time to retrieve data (from a previous case; user requested backup after arbitrary termination, but Wable refused), that's just unacceptable.

  • MunMun Member

    @perennate said:

    NodePing said: So you delete my server just minutes after I post. I smell bridges burning.

    Wow. So is NodePing a no-good abuser too? I hope no one still uses these kids for hosting. You can choose your clients, but when you terminate customers who are legitimately using the service, and don't even give time to retrieve data (from a previous case; user requested backup after arbitrary termination, but Wable refused), that's just unacceptable.

    That is a lot of speculation.

  • LeeLee Veteran

    NodePing said: So you delete my server just minutes after I post. I smell bridges burning.

    Lol, and so it starts. That is pretty low if they did that. The fact they have rushed to amend the pricing is an indication their 'more important' clients are not that impressed either.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited May 2016

    Mun said: That is a lot of speculation.

    Eh, can you be more specific about what speculation are you referring to? I went through my comment and honestly can't find any speculation at all :O

    So is NodePing a no-good abuser too?

    This is merely a rhetorical question, based on their history of labelling terminated clients as somehow undesirable.

    I hope no one still uses these kids for hosting.

    This is just a comment.

    You can choose your clients,

    More comments, not speculation.

    but when you terminate customers who are legitimately using the service, and don't even give time to retrieve data (from a previous case; user requested backup after arbitrary termination, but Wable refused),

    There have been multiple threads about this happening, and the provider in question has never contradicted the claims, so there's no reason to believe they are not true. Just two examples from a quick search:

    So it's still possible that the users are not telling the truth, but I think it's unfair to call this statement speculation since it's backed by a reasonable amount of evidence.

    that's just unacceptable.

    Another comment, not speculation.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited May 2016

    dailymc said:

    @perennate said: Hm, what is wrong with that? Having some customers who are not subscribed to important service announcements seems like it could be a big problem. For example there might be legal requirements to notifying customers about some kinds of things, and I imagine most customers would definitely want to receive a pricing change notification like this one.

    Or if that wasn't your point, then what was? (maybe you mean you already closed your Wable account?)

    I think it would be much more reasonable for it to say..

    "You received this email because you have an open Wable account. To unsubscribe to Wable service update emails, edit the settings in the client area."

    I don't see how that addresses my comment. Some announcements simply need to go to all active users on the platform. TBH I do not want to be able to opt out of important billing e-mails like the one in question here, without cancelling my account. And obviously some people might disagree with that, but I imagine there are legal problems, e.g. if terms of service says that all clients will be notified under so and so changes; not to mention problems where customer who opted out didn't know about the change and starts complaining when whatever updates take effect.

    To make an analogy, I don't believe WHMCS lets you opt out of service suspension/termination or invoice notification e-mails.

  • @Incero said:
    Thanks for the feedback, we are still tweaking things, and listening to feedback from our customers in our ticket system.

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1688844648044232&id=1407513069510726

    We heard you all loud and clear, we are still tweaking the pricing that starts on June 1st. Some adjustments have just been put in place to massively reduce add-on CPU and RAM costs, we also reduced the thresholds required for reaching discount tiers ( https://wable.com/faq#faq-37 ).
    We encourage feedback and discussion in our TICKET SYSTEM ([email protected]).
    Please check your billing at https://wable.com and contact [email protected] with any questions.

    Banning people is not really the definition of listening to feedback :p

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    So based on all the bants above, it looks like this change is aimed at big spenders who need hundreds of VMs at a time, for short periods, where the pay-per-usage model makes sense, particularly with the discounts being offered when you're spending decent chunks of change per month.

    The implication there is that Wable is simply tweaking(mutilating?) their offering to match the customer base they want, which is fair enough really - if it gets rid of the customers they no longer want, win for them I guess.

    Everyone should have seen this coming since Plan 1's demise...Incero dipped their toe in the LE* and didn't like it, for which you can hardly blame them, it's a weird place to be, especially when you're a host who's used to dealing with bigger customers, I imagine there was a lot of head scratching over why they even attempted the experiment after a few months of agg from LE* customers.

  • KrisKris Member

    Nekki said: I imagine there was a lot of head scratching over why they even attempted the experiment after a few months of agg from LE* customers.

    Doubt it. They got loads of customers which helped with ARIN allocations, hell they even formed 'Wablecom Incero LLC' for the IP requests.

    Now that ARIN isn't handing out IPs you know what the customers are worth. Their names and street addresses, that's what ARIN required in Phase 4. Now that they're worthless...

    Anyway it's a whole lot easier to sell VPS servers with 'PowerBoost!' and 'create all you want' to fill those Excel worksheets to get off to the ARIN analysts rather than bare metal.

    Now that ARIN's closed time to get rid of the customer base. I've known Incero to do some pretty low things, but terming @NodePing is a new low, literally purging customers.

    Just... low.

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    Well, there's a thing :-/

    Thanked by 1Foul
  • LeeLee Veteran
    edited May 2016

    Lee said: Anyway had more but just a bit of musing whilst I waited on call, which has arrived. Probably just as well, the really contentious comments were still to come :P

    @Kris covered off what I was intending to detail in my earlier post. A big IP grab is all it was. LET was just a pool of cheap hookers. Hence why they closed accounts so easily, it was their longer term intention.

    Fortunately I eventually decided against putting Wable to any serious use from a personal point of view due to doubts about future price increase . I do pay for other services which will be cancelled shortly once the team transfer it. Not a big loss to Incero, about $600 per year or thereabouts. It's my way of displaying discontent/distrust. And fortunately they cannot connect it to me and cancel beforehand :P

    I suspect this will hit them harder than they will ever admit.

  • Hello GVH V4

  • @Kris said:
    Just... low.

    That all makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing

  • @Kris said:
    loads of customers which helped with ARIN allocations

    Just curious - What stops a provider for making the names/addresses up? Does ARIN actually call a sample of the reported customers?

  • KrisKris Member
    edited May 2016

    deadbeef said: Just curious - What stops a provider for making the names/addresses up? Does ARIN actually call a sample of the reported customers?

    No, but if you're audited or questioned more, they may want more than name and street address.

    Hell, last year we had someone on the west coast purchase RIJX for the customer's base, likely for names to shoot over to ARIN analysts, create a handful of companies to spread them across, while purchasing assets of failing companies, and swiftly got around 100k IPs from those nodes. I think he has a few cages at Psychz meanwhile?

    I've been watching a lot of companies on how they amass their IPs, but to dump the clients that got them a bounty of /24's is cold-blooded. I doubt they need all those IPs for bare-metal or are hurting right now with 60k+ IPs.

    Seemingly no reason to keep the customers now that their addresses and names are worthless. They have likely have gotten all their final requests in to ARIN and sit on a waiting list somewhere for more subnets when they come available for Wable via Wablecom Incero LLC.

    Anyone working at an ISP in the last two - five years can see how obvious it is. I just call it how I see it.

    107.155.94.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.95.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.96.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.97.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.101.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.102.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.103.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.104.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.105.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.106.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.107.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC
    107.155.88.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.89.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.90.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.91.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC
    23.227.187.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC
    23.227.178.0/24 Wablecom Incero LLC
    23.92.71.0/24   Wablecom Incero LLC
    23.92.68.0/24   Wablecom Incero LLC
    23.29.125.0/24  Wablecom Incero LLC
    107.155.109.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC United States
    107.155.110.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC
    107.155.125.0/24    Wablecom Incero LLC
    

    I can only guess some of their 144.168.x subnets that are /24's came from Wable too, allocated September of 2015, but not labeled as such in the descriptions.

    Feel sorry for the customers here, that's all.

    EDIT: spelling

  • sirmbhesirmbhe Member

    meh

Sign In or Register to comment.