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VPS abuse and $0.1 million lawsuit
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VPS abuse and $0.1 million lawsuit

Hello,

i seek Your kind advice and opinion regarding classic abuse/fraud in web-hosting industry.

a) There is an US company who provide dedicated server to the customer from Germany.

b) The German customer using the server (one of its ARIN IPs) to provide shared web-hosting account to a customer from Nigeria.

c) The Nigerian customer send an email from his web-hosting account and trick some Italian company to send him 100 000 USD (example: international bank transfer from Italy to United Kingdom).

The Italian company then submit an lawsuit in Italy providing email headers of the communication with scammer and details of the transaction, details of the case.

I want to ask what is the probability that Italian company will get the money back from:

a) US server, IP provider

b) German web-hosting provider

c) Nigerian scammer

What are the ways to get money back and how such a legal process will/can run?

Thank you

«1

Comments

  • Anyone else not understand what he said?

    So pretty much, a US based company provided a server to a scammer, the scammer scammed, and someone sued the provider? or are they suing the scammer?

  • There are no realistic ways to get the money back. Forget about it.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • German web hosting won't have to pay for that, as well as the server provider.

  • get legal advise noww

  • I don't understand why you ask us here, when the first call should be a lawyer

  • Eh? Surely if someone entices a business to pay money to them fraudulently, it's the the fraudster who's liable, not anyone else?

  • @Nekki said:
    Eh? Surely if someone entices a business to pay money to them fraudulently, it's the the fraudster who's liable, not anyone else?

    +1. This is like saying "someone driving a Ford ran me over so I'm going to sue Ford".

    Thanked by 1theroyalstudent
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    It's not really a $.1 million lawsuit, it's...(holds pinkie up to corner of mouth)...a $.0001 billion lawsuit.

  • @ehab said:
    get legal advise noww

    Wow so helpful!!!

  • @Jonchun said:
    Wow so helpful!!!

    and wise.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider
  • @ehab said:
    and wise.

    Wow so smart!!!

    Thanked by 1doghouch
  • 2bb32bb3 Member
    edited November 2015

    Jonchun said: Wow so smart!!!

    Your answer in this thread as been both smart and helpful!!!

    @op: do some people send that much money to nigerian scammers? If so they probably have enough cash to go to nigeria, find the scammer and nicely ask the money back.

    couldn't the bank in UK be held liable for something?

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • ehabehab Member
    edited November 2015

    sorry @postcd , ignore what i say 2 mr.Jon jonchun.

    @Jonchun said:

    du uwanna watch me dance

    Thanked by 1cassa
  • @2bb3 said:
    Your answer in this thread as been both smart and helpful!!!

    Following the LET way!

  • ricardoricardo Member
    edited November 2015

    Yeah, get a lawyer. Don't see how the scammed Italian company have any recourse, though. It's not like you could sue the postman/company for delivering a scam in a letter.

    What are the ways to get money back

    Go to Nigeria with a hammer? Kidding of course.

  • @Jonchun said:
    Following the LET way!

    You should only consider legal advice from competent/qualified people (lawyers maybe?) ... That's why getting some real "legal advice" is the best "advice".

    Thanked by 1teknolaiz
  • Please call the Nigerian prince he will send you back a few millions...

    Thanked by 3Aga ATHK netomx
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited November 2015

    How do you trick someone into paying $100,000? I mean, who doesn't have to jump through a few approval hoops to spend $100,000?

    Sounds like they learned a $100,000 lesson. Can't put a price tag on that, but if you were to try.... I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000.

  • @Jar said:
    How do you trick someone into paying $100,000? I mean, who doesn't have to jump through a few approval hoops to spend $100,000?

    Sounds like they learned a $100,000 lesson. Can't put a price tag on that, but if you were to try.... I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000.

    Scammed 100k just using a shared hosting account Holy shit ......

    I'm glad that scammer didn't get a VPS there would be list of Scammed company's

    Thanked by 2jar netomx
  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @Jar said:
    How do you trick someone into paying $100,000? I mean, who doesn't have to jump through a few approval hoops to spend $100,000?

    Sounds like they learned a $100,000 lesson. Can't put a price tag on that, but if you were to try.... I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000.

    $100k is nothing, talk to the Ubiquiti Networks guys, they got done in for $40,000,000.

    Francisco

  • Holy shiz... Seriously ? Man, we need to file 2-3 forms to get even a $500 from our company.

  • There is no legal base to sue the web host or anyone in the chain except the scammer - The first host, as per German law, is NOT liable for anything done on the server/service as long as he took appropriate measures to stop it once known (i.e. abuse mail or court order was sent) and has the required customer data by German law (= nothing if paid in cash/BTC). It's like a creditcard - if stolen you only pay up to like 50EUR even if the thief spent much more. The US host/DC is not liable as the US has similar laws in place. The US host does not even need to cooperate and give out any customer data to an Italian court, this does not change liability either.

    The risk would be INSANE for any datacenter or end-user ISP without this exemptions from lawsuits (more in EU than in US, US iirc still allows a lot of non-criminal lawsuits while you can't even do that in EU), it is simply too easy to abuse the service - I would maybe compare it to sue the owner of a rented car because the renter borrowed it to someone that ran over some guy, obviously the driver (= nigerian) is liable, the original customer (= german) might be liable if he gave the car knowing this guy is not able to use it correctly and/or dangerous, the original owner (= US corp) has no liability at all.

    In the end ONLY the scammer is liable, depending on how it was paid it might be untraceable (Western union is mainly fake names and bribed WU staff, bank accounts in Dubai and alike are often opened with fake IDs, at least according to some SPIEGEL docus i saw) - Even if you manage to actually trace it it someone individual in Nigeria the law there works slow (if at all, de facto the government has no control over like 1/5th of the country, it is occupied by Boko Haram and others).

  • postcdpostcd Member
    edited November 2015

    thank you all.

    @William Your knowledge is really wide, thanks for sharing

    @Francisco What means "they got done in for $xxx"? My english is bad

    @Nekki

    "it's the the fraudster who's liable, not anyone else?"

    hosting provider usually have tools to monitor on what is happening on the server, but indeed some kind of abuse is probably really out of scope of monitoring and cant be proven that the activity is illegal without deep research

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @postcd said:
    Francisco What means "they got done in for $xxx"? My english is bad

    They got scammed for $40 million dollars: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/08/tech-firm-ubiquiti-suffers-46m-cyberheist/

  • postcd said: hosting provider usually have tools to monitor on what is happening on the server, but indeed some kind of abuse is probably really out of scope of monitoring and cant be proven that the activity is illegal without deep research

    It's completely unrealistic to expect a provider to monitor to the degree that would have been necessary to be aware of what was occurring.

  • Thanked by 2ChrisMiller netomx
  • jhjh Member

    image

    Thanked by 1raindog308
  • Nigerian scammers are pretty clever, or so it would seem. Who now days would fall for such a thing. Oh I know, freakin idiots.

    A senator fell for the old Nigerian hustle several times for millions a dolla sent by western union for a chance of a life time return.

    The silly old bastard lost it all, just like the guy in the thread above.

  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited November 2015

    @ricardo said:
    Yeah, get a lawyer. Don't see how the scammed Italian company have any recourse, though. It's not like you could sue the postman/company for delivering a scam in a letter.

    Go to Nigeria with a hammer? Kidding of course.

    Ew. Go to Nigeria with a phone displaying drama from LET on it. It will surely scare away the scammers as they just can't handle it

  • WebProjectWebProject Host Rep, Veteran

    cjd said: +1. This is like saying "someone driving a Ford ran me over so I'm going to sue Ford".

    In some situations the Ford will take responsibility, example: some parts had a manufacturer fault therefore the Ford is responsible.

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