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extermination of LET providers - Page 2
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extermination of LET providers

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Comments

  • @Maounique said:
    You dont know what you are talking about.

    Thank you for that insightful dissection of the points I raised.

  • There is plenty of space in the market. As a smaller, European cloud provider, we've been in business 6 years now, are very profitable, and have clouds online in 14 locations, with pricing higher than most of the other guys in some ways, but less when you look closely like:like.

    Provide a quality service, impress with your support and the experience, and you will win customers, in any market.

    Thanked by 2vimalware NeoXiD
  • @Bruce said:
    OK, a controversial title, so let me explain. this all started from reading this https://vpsboard.com/topic/7424-what-is-your-favourite-raid-level/ on VPSboard

    Fixed? :)

  • BruceBruce Member

    @HostNun said:
    Fixed? :)

    are you on drugs?

  • HBAndreiHBAndrei Member, Top Host, Host Rep

    Bruce said: are you on drugs?

    I actually laughed out loud when reading this :D

    Thx.

  • BruceBruce Member

    for those interested, I added a link to my first post

  • There are lots of factors to consider here. The reason low prices can be sustainable is because of technology Advancement's. Every year or two the cost of tech goes down to nearly half. There are definitely other factors but I guess like with any other market, there will always be space for small cheap providers.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

  • @virtualizor said:
    Every year or two the cost of tech goes down to nearly half.

    We've been deploying HP Blades for the last 6 years. In that time, we're actually spending more now on the exact same blade config (high level) than we were 6 years ago. Enterprise hardware is surprisingly 'flat' in terms of cost, and new tech, even once it's bedded in (like SSD, or new Gen processors) hold their premium for several years too.

    Providers putting 'real' datacenter SSD into their servers right now are doing so by cutting their margins to compete, not because the hardware is getting massively cheaper...

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep
    edited July 2015

    dediserve said: In that time, we're actually spending more now on the exact same blade config (high level) than we were 6 years ago

    Hard to believe. If by config you mean Quad/Hex/Oct cores CPUs rather than CPU models then maybe. But CPUs from 6 years ago are cheap as chips. And if you believe that the older models are as good as the new, why don't you just buy the older ones which are readily and cheaply available.

    In HK, you can easily pick up a Xeon X3430 box, complete with brand-new 80Plus PSU, brand-new HDD and 8GB RAM for under US$200. A more modern E3 model CPU would cost almost 4 times as much.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited July 2015

    randvegeta said: brand-new

    Please allow me to doubt that.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @Maounique, doubt what? That the PSU and HDD are new?

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited July 2015

    Yes, a new PSU even for "vintage" servers is more expensive than 200 $ in most cases..

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @Maounique, Why would I need a vintage PSU? Standard modern PSUs work fine and are very cheap.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Hum, I guess you are one of the lucky people where modern PSUs can be fitted without major modification on older servers. For me, it was never the case.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    One our suppliers in China has hundreds of units of Xeon X3430 (or similar) CPUs and Intel S3420 ServerBoards just laying around. Being sold very cheap, mere minutes away from our DC.

    We almost never buy second hand but I've given it some serious second thoughts given the performance is quite reasonable and fitted with new HDD/SSD, fans and an 80Plus PSU, those boxes actually end up costing very little and to my surprise use a tiny amount of power. Similar power consumption to an i3 machine.

    Not sure how easily older model machines rent out for, particularly since HK costs are mostly bandwidth, space and IPs, but if you doubt the cheapness, PM if you want to buy some. Don't know where you are in the world but even with shipping, probably still get you a decent deal ;)

  • randvegeta said: Hard to believe. If by config you mean Quad/Hex/Oct cores CPUs rather than CPU models then maybe. But CPUs from 6 years ago are cheap as chips. And if you believe that the older models are as good as the new, why don't you just buy the older ones which are readily and cheaply available.

    In HK, you can easily pick up a Xeon X3430 box, complete with brand-new 80Plus PSU, brand-new HDD and 8GB RAM for under US$200. A more modern E3 model CPU would cost almost 4 times as much.

    No it's true. You're only talking about many many years back. Ever since E3 and E5 came out there has hardly been any change - E3 v1 / v2 / v3 / v4 - price has been flat and there hasn't been that much of a performance improvement. Maybe 5-15% between the generations over 4 years. Power might have gone down some, but cost on servers is overall similar.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    concerto49 said: Maybe 5-15% between the generations over 4 years. Power might have gone down some, but cost on servers is overall similar.

    Power consumption is a big deal though. Compare performance to power consumption and the improvements are clear.

    Power costs in HK are not cheap, and its exacerbated by the fact that it gets damn hot in the summer, and cooling becomes a major issue.

    Generally speaking, lower power means less heat. Or rather higher efficiency means less heat. Less heat translates to less cooling and thus lower operating costs. There is also a matter of lower operating temperatures which may translate to improved stability.

    Performance may not have the same leaps and bounds as they used to, but the new stuff still has it's advantages.

    With that in mind, after testing some of the older X3230 CPUs, seems the price of second hand equipment can somewhat offset the increased efficiency of some newer stuff. Depends on the needs.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    Interestingly, RAM prices have more than doubled in the last 2 years. And second hand RAM isn't much cheaper than new. Not sure if I should be happy or sad.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    I have dell/HP DDR3 by the bucket, 4 GB each, so, if you need a bundle deal, I can give you some 300 GB or so.

  • concerto49concerto49 Member
    edited July 2015

    randvegeta said: Power consumption is a big deal though. Compare performance to power consumption and the improvements are clear.

    Yes, but he said the cost of the server has remained the same - which you found hard to believe. Power is a separate issue. That is different cost altogether.

    randvegeta said: Interestingly, RAM prices have more than doubled in the last 2 years. And second hand RAM isn't much cheaper than new. Not sure if I should be happy or sad.

    That's because the number of DRAM makers have gone down by a lot. There are only 3 left - Samsung, Micron and Hynix. None of them will be interested in mass producing to reduce prices in the market.

  • To clarify, I said the 'high level' price. ie: the price we pay has not changed. Yes the processors have gotten 'newer' the SSD's shinier, the 'generation' newer, but the raw cost of the hardware (cost per GB RAM, etc) is relatively unchanged in that period.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    concerto49 said: Yes, but he said the cost of the server has remained the same - which you found hard to believe. Power is a separate issue. That is different cost altogether.

    Actually he said EXACTLY the same. If it's different hardware, its not EXACTLY the same. I already concede that newer models of the same CPU (i.e E3 v1, v2, v3, v4) have remained largely the same, but the an old E3 is far cheaper than new, so to say they pay more for EXACTLY the same is hard to believe.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    Maounique said: I have dell/HP DDR3 by the bucket, 4 GB each, so, if you need a bundle deal, I can give you some 300 GB or so.

    How much? The problem is that 4GB isn't so valuable or useful any more.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited July 2015

    It depends, for older servers, there is little point of having a lot of RAM, unless you need to cache a lot. For virtualization, below 5520 dual CPUs, more than 32 GB does not really make much sense, unless you need a lot of caching. I sell 25 Eur per piece.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    Thats more expensive than HK per GB than for 8GB. 16GB dimms are even cheaper per GB. Hw is quite cheap in HK

  • It is just a business model do you prefer 100 customers x $2 or 2 customers x $100. Also consider DO and the rest of the bunch are getting tons of cash as an investment, and do you ;) ?

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