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LowEndTalk Community Rules

LowEndTalk Community Rules

jarlandjarland Administrator
edited August 22 in Announcements

Welcome to LowEndTalk!

This is the discussion forum for LowEndBox.com where you can find yourself in a world of VPS offers under $7. LowEndTalk.com is aimed to be a discussion forum for a complete genre of topics surrounding LowEndBox VPS and what you can achieve with them. If you're a new member stop by the Introduction Thread and introduce yourself. There's also an official IRC channel on irc.freenode.net/#LowEndBox and a Discord server.

To contact staff, please use our help desk.

Rules for selling can be found here: Rules for Selling on LowEndTalk

The Golden Rule of LET is:

Don’t be a dick.

Do unto others. Don't do things that decades of netiquette have shown to be offensive. Don't be That Guy. Don't break the rules. When in doubt, don't.

Just don't be a dick.

More Specific Rules

There will always be new ways to cause trouble for people within a community, and they can’t all be listed one by one. Intent isn’t always impossible to judge, and it isn’t always relative. The administrators and the moderators are the judges, respect their requests when you are told that you have stepped out of line.

Bannable, Kill -9 Behaviors:

  • Overt racism, religious intolerance, etc. All that stuff that is in every forum TOS on the planet. If most people would think it's hate speech, it's likely the mods will, too, and besides...what does that have to do with the low end vps world? False cries of racism to derail threads will meet the same fate as racist remarks.

  • Threats, harrassment, doxxing, supporting terrorist activity, making public your wish for people here to die, motivating people to commit harm to themselves, etc. You're being a dick.

  • Obvious spam. We all know it when we see it.

  • Ban evasion

  • Being a dick.

Things Everyone Hates

  • Posting multiple threads on the same topic.

  • Bumping threads because you're impatient.

  • Answering. Every. Thread. With. Your. Aff. Code.

  • Speed Qualifiers: We ask you to meet some pretty low minimums to qualify for the Provider tag (5 posts, 14 days). When you spam five quick "+1 good idea" replies to get to the limit, it disappoints us.

  • The Dark Arts of Thread Necromancy: make sure the thread you're replying to is still relevant

  • Posting about things other than low end virtual machines/technology in places other than Offtopic. The category is there for a reason.

  • Signatures longer than most of your posts that fill significant portions of our screens. It should not be more than two lines, nor should it be distracting.

LET is White Hat

We do not allow discussion of how to commit illegal activities such as D/DOS attacks, spamming, hacking, etc. Threads on these subjects will be closed and removed. Discussion of defense against these acts is welcome.

LET is not the place to boast about your DDOS attacks, share your tango downs, or rally the hacking underground to avenge a digital wrong. Discussions encouraging these activities will be closed and removed.

Just to be clear - that list of subjects includes traffic exchange, botnets, subnets so you can barrage sneaker companies in search of the latest tennis shoes, as well as anything that might cause headaches for a hosting provider. Provider lives matter.

LET is Multithreaded

It's true - LowEndTalk has full multithreading support! If you find your comment is more about another comment than about the thread's title, please fork the thread by starting one of your own.

There is absolutely no performance penalty for forking. Please fork your brains out rather than derailing threads.

LET Doesn't Have Subtitles

Our language of discussion is English. This is solely because the moderators all speak English and we can't moderate non-English text, and non-moderatable posts obviously have a huge potential for problems. Please post in English. Muchos danke, mon amie!

LET is R-Rated

We've already used the word "dick" and made a fork joke (nyuck, nyuck) so obviously this isn't Nickelodeon. However, we're not X-rated so please no full frontal tentacle hentai animated gifs, etc.

LET is Community

We routinely critique new offers down to the bitter penny, debate this provider vs. that, trade raw opinions, and share ways to navigate LowEndLand in an open air forum. This is great freedom.

With it comes, ah hell is this going all Peter Parker? Let's be more specific:

  • This is LowEndTalk, not LowEndWebkinz. You get to pick what you say yourself, so keep in mind what you choose reflects who you are.

  • When you pull out your big boy language, make sure it's pointed at something other than another LET member.

  • Trolls are very obvious and usually not very funny. They tend to be rather dickish and you've already learned the fate of those who are dicks.

LET is Eternal

Occasionally people want mods to delete accounts. We don't do that because Vanilla doesn't handle it very well, it messes up threads, etc. We recommend you (a) choose an account name that doesn't identify you, and (b) don't behave in a way that will embarrass future you. FYI, only you and mods can see your email address and IP info.

To be clear, if you post something on LET, you should expect it to live forever.

Warnings

From time to time, the mods will warn individuals. Usually this is to draw their attention to various rules that they are apparently unaware of. Typically warnings are for 2 weeks and then removed, but there is no automated method for this and it relies on mods noticing someone's post and looking at the warning. If you feel it's been there too long, submit a ticket.

Warnings are only visible to you and the mods, not to other users. They're the first, private step on the "warning, temp ban, permanent ban" ladder. Take them as a "hey, by the way, did you see this rule" nudge in the ribs. There are various warning levels (mild, medium, severe, etc.) which are chosen based on the whim of any given mod.

Tired Threads

These threads are either played out (nothing new to say) or tend to generate more heat than light. Think carefully before wading into them.

  • The ethics of copyright in the digital age, the ethics of torrenting, BLAH BLAH freaking BLAH MAKE IT STOP.
  • Gun control.
  • Political debates, this candidate or party vs. that, etc. We're in different countries, for pity's sake.

Commercial IP Related Posts

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Comments

  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    edited September 2016

    Thanks @raindog308 for rewriting the rules in a way that better outlines who we are as a community and what we strive to be. This rewrite was inspired directly from recent feedback on the community from long-time, active members.

    This time, the discussion is left open for the time being.

  • @Jarland where have the offer posting rules gone?

  • andreamadaandreamada Member, Provider
    edited September 2016

    @jarland Am I wrong or the rule related to the signature has been changed? (no more than 2 lines, font-weight etc.)

    It seems to be more general now, I found the previous one pretty good and useful to keep the forum clean.

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator

    @andreamada said: @jarland Am I wrong or the rule related to the signature has been changed? (no more than 2 lines, font-weight etc.)

    It seems to be more general now, I found the previous one pretty good and useful to keep the forum clean.

    You are correct. As the rules have grown a bit I have been firm in requiring that they not grow much in size. I think that signature rules are easily implied by other things in a way that is more easy to maintain.

    Now they fall under "don't be a dick." I'm less concerned with measuring someone's signature in every browser to determine if it is the appropriate length and more concerned with "is this a problem?" If it is, it should be dealt with.

  • BeardyUnixGuyBeardyUnixGuy Member
    edited September 2016

    I stand with @andreamada. It's much easier/simpler to refer someone to a detailed forum rule, than to prove (to the violator) that he is in violation of the "don't be a dick" rule.

    How would a new LET member interpret that three-line signatures are "being a dick", when there's other forums that permit much much worse/crazier.

    @jarland, I believe that with less detailed rules, there'll be more instances where moderator involvement will be required to confirm (to the violator) that a violation has occurred.

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  • andreamadaandreamada Member, Provider

    @BeardyUnixGuy Exactly, I perfectly agree with you and this is what I meant. Each moderator can perceive it differently cause it's too general and may led to misunderstandings. In such cases I rather suggest to be specific.

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    edited September 2016

    Signatures longer than most of your posts that fill significant portions of our screens.

    +

    There will always be new ways to cause trouble for people within a community, and they can’t all be listed one by one. Intent isn’t always impossible to judge, and it isn’t always relative. The administrators and the moderators are the judges, respect their requests when you are told that you have stepped out of line.

    This isn't a court of law, just a community. We have not had a widespread problem with signatures, not enough to justify a paragraph here. If we turn the rules into a book, we are not being friendly to new members. It simply cannot contain specific language about every single action that is unacceptable. Something has to be generic and reference the intent of the rules. The rules are useless if people can't be expected to read them. We should be specific about things that are regular problems and generic about our expectations for the boundaries of behavior.

    You should walk away from reading the rules knowing who we are and what disrupts our community. I do not believe the rules should be something you have to reference so specifically that an extra press of the spacebar can have you in violation.

    So my challenge to you guys would be this: If you see a signature that bothers you, ask yourself why. Is it really something you can't get over, does it truly limit your experience as a member of this community? If that is the case, seek us out and let's open a dialogue with the member involved. It's not a ban action, I would say, unless they're being such a dick with their signature that everyone and their mother knows their intent (including them).

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    edited September 2016

    Slight adjustment:

    Signatures longer than most of your posts that fill significant portions of our screens. The area the top of your username to the bottom of your post, if you post one sentence, should take up more space than your signature.

    That's fairly general but still easy to check.

    Thanked by 1andreamada
  • BeardyUnixGuyBeardyUnixGuy Member
    edited September 2016

    Heinz said: We have not had a widespread problem with signatures because previous forum management carefully enforced rules and did all the job here to limit exaggerated signatures. And you will fuck this.

    I cannot help but agree with these two lines, although I think the second line wasn't worded very nicely.

    We haven't had a signature problem because, naturally, there's been enforcement of certain rules. Remove the rules and you open yourself up to potential abuse of signatures.

    Maybe not immediately, but it will definitely happen. Why? Simple, it's human nature.

    Heinz said: Of course you will go your own way now when forum is your personal playground

    I don't agree with this. I understand where @jarland is coming from in that we can't expect new members to have to read a novel's worth of rules prior to participating in the community.

    It's not very cool to have a new member join up only to be banned for some silly violation. We're shutting ourselves out of new members who could potentially add their own knowledge to our discussions.

    Plus, it's not like we all memorized the rules when we initially joined. Instead, most of us simply followed the "Don't be a jerk" path and slowly saw what was acceptable and what wasn't.

    jarland said: If you see a signature that bothers you, ask yourself why. Is it really something you can't get over...

    As an administrator, you probably already recognize how often I flag on any rule violation that I see. I don't do this because it's a roadblock to me finding happiness in my life. I do it solely because rules are implemented to protect against certain unwanted outcomes, and I want to prevent those unwanted outcomes from ruining the community that I'd consider myself part of.

    By removing detailed rules, you remove the community's ability to easily be vocal about something being wrong or unacceptable. Assuming most people are generally quite tolerable, that means you will now have very few people complaining about signatures since most would also probably think "Well, no one else is complaining".

    This will likely be the slippery path down to WHT-style signatures. Among other things, a person will likely think to himself "Why should I limit myself to only 3x affiliate links in my signature when $x has 10?".

    While the discussion up until this point may have focused on signatures, the opinion sticks to all rules. Make them vague and they'll be easier to read for n00bs. However, it'll be more difficult for senior members to enlighten the n00b about why something he has done/said is not acceptable within the community.

    Maybe one option would be to separate the more specific rules into a "guidelines" section. Like rules, guidelines can also be enforced by mods/community. However, the presence of guidelines will still empower the community to self-regulate itself and hopefully lead to more cases of resolution without a mod to get involved.

    Finally, if we're completely honest about things, we'll all agree that a shorter rulebook will still not necessarily mean that every newcomer will read it through (properly).

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    edited September 2016

    @BeardyUnixGuy Is the new change acceptable to you? I think it's very easy to test, and it does the same thing without being so technical. It's a visual thing that upsets people, so I think a description that translates into a visual image is appropriate. Basically, if the post is 50% and signature is 50% of screen real estate used by a post, it's too much.

    Signature should take less space than a single sentence post where the top of the username to the bottom of the post should be considered.

  • BeardyUnixGuyBeardyUnixGuy Member
    edited September 2016

    jarland said: @BeardyUnixGuy Is the new change acceptable to you?

    I'm unsure how much easier the new line is compared to simply "Not more than two lines".

    Also, I don't believe there's anything there to discourage excessive anchors in signatures or bad taste/style.

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    edited September 2016

    Re-opened for CIVIL conversation. This will absolutely NOT be the meeting place for the resident "I hate anyone in leadership of this forum" club. I know who you are, I remember the things you say, and I will apply historical context that others will not necessarily witness at first glance. This community belongs to its members and my role is to protect their interests from the admin layer. It does not belong to the people who only pop their head in long enough to fling shit and disappear for another month.

    BeardyUnixGuy said: I'm unsure how much easier the new line is compared to simply "Not more than two lines".

    Fair. Thoughts @raindog308 @Ishaq @Amitz?

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider
    edited September 2016

    To add my two cents to the discussion: I've already had to request from two providers that they shorten their signature, since the rule change went into effect.

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  • AmitzAmitz Moderator

    @BeardyUnixGuy is right. Let's make it "not more than two lines, not distracting in a dickish way".

  • IshaqIshaq Member, Provider

    That rule was fine, yes.

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    Signatures longer than most of your posts that fill significant portions of our screens. It should not more be than two lines, nor should it be distracting.

    Adjustment made.

  • @jarland, "It should not more be than two lines"?

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator

    @BeardyUnixGuy said: @jarland, "It should not more be than two lines"?

    Multitasking strikes again ;)

  • First of all let me give a long overdue thanks to @raindog308 for creating these great new rules!

    Regarding the signatures: I still believe in the old rules. This is mostly because we started with something along the lines of 'No more than two lines'. That led to discussion. So, a couple of cycles of discussion later (amongst each other and with members in violation of what we though was acceptable) we came up with the rules as they were.

    I really appreciate the simplicity of 'No more than two lines and it should not stand out'. I just hope the community is ready for it now. So let's try it!

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  • andreamadaandreamada Member, Provider

    Thank you for the adjustment, it looks good now. Some rules need to be defined clearly rather than applying common sense cause it may vary from person to person.

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  • Can we please have some minimum comment number requirement to prevent new users from simply opening a new discussion? Maybe like 10 comments?

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  • @BeardyUnixGuy said: Can we please have some minimum comment number requirement to prevent new users from simply opening a new discussion? Maybe like 10 comments?

    That's just a recipe for a ton of garbage comments. I'd much rather have the ability to filter out toxic users.

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  • @impossiblystupid, nothing to stop us filtering them out during those first comments as well.

    If the person is going to drop 20 stupid comments in one go, then they're bound to get caught. So, if they want to make a first post that'll actually stick, they will need to drop some 20-ish reasonably decent comments.

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  • @BeardyUnixGuy said: nothing to stop us filtering them out during those first comments as well.

    Unless I'm missing something, there's no way to filter them out with this forum software. Even something like an old-school Usenet killfile would be preferable to the limited intervention that the Flag option offers.

    I am Impossibly Stupid. Hailed by @jarland as an "incessantly belligerent buffoon." Available for parties. Book early to avoid disappointment.

  • alownalown Member

    I don't think we need rules for any of these last few. Community reactions take care of it pretty well. Lot of cynical smartasses around here.

  • @impossiblystupid, originally, I read your "filter" and "get them flagged/banned/removed". But I see now that you mean actual filtering out of messages etc. I agree we don't have that and I doubt we ever will. My point is simply that, to me, additional discussion requirements (such as 20 comments before 1st discussion) is worth it even for just a 5% improvement in the quality of discussions. I'd rather the guy gets flagged for stupid comments in other discussions than for him to open a brand new discussion. Hope I make more sense now.

    @alown, you are quite right but remember that 'cynical smartasses' on LET are still a limited resource. Eventually they will likely get tired of assisting with gatekeeping. There may be others to replace them but it'll always remain a limited resource nonetheless.

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator

    @BeardyUnixGuy said: Can we please have some minimum comment number requirement to prevent new users from simply opening a new discussion? Maybe like 10 comments?

    Decreases the size of the end of the funnel that new users come in through for little benefit, IMO. Threads already stay on page one for a long time, so there's no excess of threads.

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  • IshaqIshaq Member, Provider

    Few things I want to clarify:

    • Do not be hostile/rude to new members, if they have broken a rule flag the comment/thread and step away. We don't need you to represent staff or use harsh tones.

    • If you see SPAM, please do not quote it or even acknowledge it. Just flag it and step away. You make our lives harder cleaning up your quotes as well as the SPAM.

    Thanks.

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  • IshaqIshaq Member, Provider

    Thread has been cleaned. Keep discussion on topic (read: The Community Guidelines) or comments will be removed.

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    edited March 29

    I cannot believe I just added this rule, but apparently we're not clear on this so let's change that:

    Added to ban-worthy offenses:

    • Discussing your approval of raping children

    I feel that it is implied, and will later remove it. For now, it seems a hot topic, and needs clarity.

  • AmitzAmitz Moderator

    Did anybody actively approve the raping of children?

  • WSSWSS Member

    I approve of it- sometimes.

    Kris-Kross was good, but Willow Smith needs to shut the fuck up and go back to doing drugs on Twitter.

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator

    Yes, one long time member made clear his efforts to convince others here that child rapists are victims and the children raped are not. This is not acceptable discussion on LET.

  • AmitzAmitz Moderator

    Okay, I must have missed that.

  • NekkiNekki Member

    Can we also ban millenials, because they're largely cunts.

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  • qpsqps Member, Provider

    Nekki said: ban millenials

    Pretty sure that's pretty much everyone here.

  • jarlandjarland Administrator

    I was able to remove the most idiotic rule I've ever had to make because the "cest pit" has taken a leave of absence.

  • TomTom Member

    @jarland said: I was able to remove the most idiotic rule I've ever had to make because the "cest pit" has taken a leave of absence.

    :/
    Is it gone forever or just temporary?

  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    edited March 29

    Yoda said: Is it gone forever or just temporary?

    I would like to think it's implied by the tone of the rest of the rules.

    Edit: Oh you mean the thread lol, no it'll be back.

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  • WSSWSS Member

    @jarland said: I was able to remove the most idiotic rule I've ever had to make because the "cest pit" has taken a leave of absence.

    HOME WRECKER!

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  • NekkiNekki Member

    qps said: Pretty sure that's pretty much everyone here.

    Pretty sure that's not true.

    jarland said: I was able to remove the most idiotic rule I've ever had to make because the "cest pit" has taken a leave of absence.

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Done with LET, fuck this shit.

    'Nekki can not stand behind the penis' - Shc on Hostloc

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited April 8

    @jarland can we crack down on the amount of large unrelated "funny" pictures and animated GIFs? This shit is getting out of control
    from https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2158479/#Comment_2158479 down on
    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2158545/#Comment_2158545 too
    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2157330/#Comment_2157330 etc

  • WSSWSS Member

    @rm_ said: @jarland can we crack down on the amount of large unrelated "funny" pictures and animated GIFs? This shit is getting out of control
    from https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2158479/#Comment_2158479 down on
    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2158545/#Comment_2158545 too

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  • LeeLee Member

    rm_ said: @jarland can we crack down on the amount of large unrelated "funny" pictures and animated GIFs? This shit is getting out of control

    I bet it's the only thing that keeps people coming back to the otherwise pointless threads.

    When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid.

  • trewqtrewq Moderator

    @rm_ said: @jarland can we crack down on the amount of large unrelated "funny" pictures and animated GIFs? This shit is getting out of control
    from https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2158479/#Comment_2158479 down on
    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2158545/#Comment_2158545 too
    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2157330/#Comment_2157330 etc

    Could you please specify your gripe with these?

    Are you ready? Soon™

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited April 8

    Could you please specify your gripe with these?

    Not the level of content you would expect seeing on a hosting discussion forum, as opposed to a bottom of the barrel anonymous imageboard. Also simply annoying with pages worth of constantly moving animations, and takes longer to scroll through to find the actual interesting posts in the piles of junk (especially when those replying quote the entire previous post with all the images again and again). Surprised it's something that needs explained, really.

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  • jarlandjarland Administrator
    edited April 8

    I actually kind of like it, and do it myself. It's a method of expression that has grown to significant adoption levels on the internet. It brings some humor with it. It can communicate things in a more unique way than merely text, much like emoticons.

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