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HostSailor Threatens to Sue KrebsOnSecurity for reporting on abuse on HostSailor's Network
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HostSailor Threatens to Sue KrebsOnSecurity for reporting on abuse on HostSailor's Network

KobeKobe Member
edited September 2016 in Providers

I thought this was a bit of an amusing story.

Earlier this month, KrebsOnSecurity published The Reincarnation of a Bulletproof Hoster, which examined evidence suggesting that a Web hosting company called HostSailor was created out of the ashes of another, now-defunct hosting firm notorious for harboring spammers, scammers and other online ne’er-do-wells. Today, HostSailor’s lawyers threatened to sue this author unless the story is removed from the Web.

KrebsonSecurity (aka Brian Krebs) wrote about HostSailor's abusive and malicious nature to some extent earlier this month, as referenced by this LET thread.

Comments

  • jarjar Provider
    edited September 2016

    Nothing against the writer but his conclusion didn't stand up to my personal requirements to draw such a conclusion. I fight fraud every day and I'm not convinced yet. If he's wrong, they should consider pursuing such action.

  • UnixfyUnixfy Member
    edited September 2016

    I have the "CTO of HostSailor" in my Skype contacts, let's see what he thinks :P

    EDIT: He told me some stuff, but he doesn't want me to share it on LET so I will respect his wishes.

    me // discord: Unixfy#3061

  • Krebs sells book. Shows his motives.

    How to clean up a questionable reputation: throw the kids some BF/CM offers.

  • @doughmanes said:
    Krebs sells book. Shows his motives.

    ¯͡( ͡°; ͜ʖ ͡;°)

  • I've worked for some names in the grey area like Santrex. I'm not 100% convinced but Krebs likes the free traffic

    Thanked by 2GCat netomx

    How to clean up a questionable reputation: throw the kids some BF/CM offers.

  • @Kobe said:
    I thought this was a bit of an amusing story.

    Earlier this month, KrebsOnSecurity published The Reincarnation of a Bulletproof Hoster, which examined evidence suggesting that a Web hosting company called HostSailor was created out of the ashes of another, now-defunct hosting firm notorious for harboring spammers, scammers and other online ne’er-do-wells. Today, HostSailor’s lawyers threatened to sue this author unless the story is removed from the Web.

    KrebsonSecurity (aka Brian Krebs) wrote about HostSailor's abusive and malicious nature to some extent earlier this month, as referenced by this LET thread.

    TL;DR: Krebs got caught in bullshit and hostsailor is about to spank him so he's complaining and whining like a little twat

    Thanked by 2netomx PrColo

    My comments are mine and mine alone, and do not reflect the opinion of my business

  • Whats next, trees suing trees for being to close to that one tree.

  • @GCat said:

    @Kobe said:
    I thought this was a bit of an amusing story.

    Earlier this month, KrebsOnSecurity published The Reincarnation of a Bulletproof Hoster, which examined evidence suggesting that a Web hosting company called HostSailor was created out of the ashes of another, now-defunct hosting firm notorious for harboring spammers, scammers and other online ne’er-do-wells. Today, HostSailor’s lawyers threatened to sue this author unless the story is removed from the Web.

    KrebsonSecurity (aka Brian Krebs) wrote about HostSailor's abusive and malicious nature to some extent earlier this month, as referenced by this LET thread.

    TL;DR: Krebs got caught in bullshit and hostsailor is about to spank him so he's complaining and whining like a little twat

    Serves the twat right, I'd say. Should serve as a lesson to the so called irresponsible "investigative journalists" who post articles without doing any due diligence at their end.

    Thanked by 3GCat thatix k0nsl
  • @K4Y5 said:

    @GCat said:

    @Kobe said:
    I thought this was a bit of an amusing story.

    Earlier this month, KrebsOnSecurity published The Reincarnation of a Bulletproof Hoster, which examined evidence suggesting that a Web hosting company called HostSailor was created out of the ashes of another, now-defunct hosting firm notorious for harboring spammers, scammers and other online ne’er-do-wells. Today, HostSailor’s lawyers threatened to sue this author unless the story is removed from the Web.

    KrebsonSecurity (aka Brian Krebs) wrote about HostSailor's abusive and malicious nature to some extent earlier this month, as referenced by this LET thread.

    TL;DR: Krebs got caught in bullshit and hostsailor is about to spank him so he's complaining and whining like a little twat

    Serves the twat right, I'd say. Should serve as a lesson to the so called irresponsible "investigative journalists" who post articles without doing any due diligence at their end.

    He always sounds so full of himself in his posts now it's goin to haunt him

    Thanked by 1K4Y5

    My comments are mine and mine alone, and do not reflect the opinion of my business

  • seriesnseriesn Member, Top Provider

    @Landofnone said:
    Whats next, trees suing trees for being to close to that one tree.

    That has been going on for a while in the land of frees.

    On another note, can that lawsuit even take place since they are in two different country? To me it all feels like typical highschoolers threatening each other.

    Complementary note : I am not a lawyer, please enlighten me.

  • pbgbenpbgben Member, Provider

    @seriesn said:

    @Landofnone said:
    Whats next, trees suing trees for being to close to that one tree.

    That has been going on for a while in the land of frees.

    On another note, can that lawsuit even take place since they are in two different country? To me it all feels like typical highschoolers threatening each other.

    Complementary note : I am not a lawyer, please enlighten me.

    Nahh, Complimentary bagel or GTFO. Also, I posted this in Cest at 11ish O_o

  • seriesnseriesn Member, Top Provider

    pbgben said: Nahh, Complimentary bagel or GTFO. Also, I posted this in Cest at 11ish O_o

    11ish in what timezone?-.-

  • seriesn said: That has been going on for a while in the land of frees.

    On another note, can that lawsuit even take place since they are in two different country? To me it all feels like typical highschoolers threatening each other.

    Complementary note : I am not a lawyer, please enlighten me.

    To my knowledge. To be able to sue someone that person who suing need to be in the state and city of that person who their suing.

  • @Landofnone said:

    seriesn said: That has been going on for a while in the land of frees.

    On another note, can that lawsuit even take place since they are in two different country? To me it all feels like typical highschoolers threatening each other.

    Complementary note : I am not a lawyer, please enlighten me.

    To my knowledge. To be able to sue someone that person who suing need to be in the state and city of that person who their suing.

    Wow, no. Just wrong.

  • seriesnseriesn Member, Top Provider

    @Landofnone said:

    seriesn said: That has been going on for a while in the land of frees.

    On another note, can that lawsuit even take place since they are in two different country? To me it all feels like typical highschoolers threatening each other.

    Complementary note : I am not a lawyer, please enlighten me.

    To my knowledge. To be able to sue someone that person who suing need to be in the state and city of that person who their suing.

    That might not have to be the case in many situation as long as within the same country. But lets say suing someone from china from usa should not be as easy as it sounds. I mean, implementing legal pressure from one country to another should not be as easy as it sounds.

    Then again I could be wrong.

  • @jarland said:
    Nothing against the writer but his conclusion didn't stand up to my personal requirements to draw such a conclusion. I fight fraud every day and I'm not convinced yet. If he's wrong, they should consider pursuing such action.

    Assuming you're correct, there's nothing illegal about being wrong. Defamation law isn't that simple.

  • jarjar Provider

    @iwaswrongonce said:

    @jarland said:
    Nothing against the writer but his conclusion didn't stand up to my personal requirements to draw such a conclusion. I fight fraud every day and I'm not convinced yet. If he's wrong, they should consider pursuing such action.

    Assuming you're correct, there's nothing illegal about being wrong. Defamation law isn't that simple.

    I think this covers it fairly well: http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/defamation-law-the-basics.html

  • So we take on hostsailor side ?

    Let's bet which dot-name will collapse first ;)

  • @tommy said:
    So we take on hostsailor side ?

    I honestly think a lawsuit is a bit of a stretch. Debatable on whether if HostSailor was actually complicit with malicious activity

  • lbftlbft Member
    edited September 2016

    It's hilarious to me how eager LET is to take the side of a shithost over a respected journalist.

    Edit: er, sorry lawyers, alleged shithost.

  • tr1ckytr1cky Member
    edited September 2016

    @lbft said:
    It's hilarious to me how eager LET is to take the side of a shithost over a respected journalist.

    Edit: er, sorry lawyers, alleged shithost.

    Sorry, but the Krebs article lacked actual facts. I won't just assume someone is guilty because someone "credible" says so.

    And his last article is a fucking joke.

    I sent that tweet after hearing from a source with whom I’ve been working to report sites affiliated with the jihadist militant group ISIS. The source had reported to HostSailor several of its Internet addresses that were being used by a propaganda site promoting videos of beheadings and other atrocities by ISIS, and he shared emails indicating that HostSailor had simply forwarded his abuse email on to its customer — complete with my source’s name and contact information. Thankfully, he was using a pseudonym and throwaway email address.

    Here the master of security describes something that a lot of other hosts do aswell: Forwarding abuse-mail.

    If online.net hosts an ISIS site, they will just forward the abuse-mail aswell, if leaseweb does so, they will do the same.

    He has no point, it's a standard procedure for many hosts.

    Edit: Oh, btw, who else just forwards abuse? Right, CloudFlare. ISIS primarily uses CloudFlare so I guess Krebs should write an article on CloudFlare?

    tsdns.io - free, redundant, DDoS-protected TSDNS

  • jarjar Provider
    edited September 2016

    @tr1cky said:

    @lbft said:
    It's hilarious to me how eager LET is to take the side of a shithost over a respected journalist.

    Edit: er, sorry lawyers, alleged shithost.

    Sorry, but the Krebs article lacked actual facts. I won't just assume someone is guilty because someone "credible" says so.

    And his last article is a fucking joke.

    I sent that tweet after hearing from a source with whom I’ve been working to report sites affiliated with the jihadist militant group ISIS. The source had reported to HostSailor several of its Internet addresses that were being used by a propaganda site promoting videos of beheadings and other atrocities by ISIS, and he shared emails indicating that HostSailor had simply forwarded his abuse email on to its customer — complete with my source’s name and contact information. Thankfully, he was using a pseudonym and throwaway email address.

    Here the master of security describes something that a lot of other hosts do aswell: Forwarding abuse-mail.

    If online.net hosts an ISIS site, they will just forward the abuse-mail aswell, if leaseweb does so, they will do the same.

    He has no point, it's a standard procedure for many hosts.

    Edit: Oh, btw, who else just forwards abuse? Right, CloudFlare. ISIS primarily uses CloudFlare so I guess Krebs should write an article on CloudFlare?

    You're not wrong. I like Krebs, he's a respected name in the field and on a more personal level he's one of the few influential people to speak up against our old friend Curtis over in Canada. But the evidence he provided was simply not enough to convince me of his conclusion.

    Add on to that, a lot of hosts have ISIS websites. It can be very hard to proactively identify them. At the same time, as you said, ISIS has not changed anyone's procedure for handling abuse reports to my knowledge. There's always abuse, always has been and always will be. ISIS may be one that gets people shaking their fists but it's not something new to abuse teams, it's just another name for the same old things they deal with every day.

    While I may like this "journalist" (doesn't quite fit how I see that word), I stand by our respected LET members and I don't turn on them with such little evidence.

    Thanked by 2tr1cky netomx
  • k0nslk0nsl Member, Member without signature

    If HostSailor wins, does that mean KrebsOnSecurity will be renamed...KebabOnSecurity? :/

  • @k0nsl said:
    If HostSailor wins, does that mean KrebsOnSecurity will be renamed...KebabOnSecurity? :/

    I am sure you can do better when trying to be funny.

    For those who care:
    You can now find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com or https://www.hostballs.com

  • k0nslk0nsl Member, Member without signature

    I'm glad you've got faith in me, @Amitz.

    @Amitz said:

    @k0nsl said:
    If HostSailor wins, does that mean KrebsOnSecurity will be renamed...KebabOnSecurity? :/

    I am sure you can do better when trying to be funny.

    Thanked by 2netomx switsys
  • Kobe said: I honestly think a lawsuit is a bit of a stretch. Debatable on whether if HostSailor was actually complicit with malicious activity

    yup, but still no proof from both side. but I still don't trust both of them for this matter.

    Let's bet which dot-name will collapse first ;)

  • @k0nsl said:
    If HostSailor wins, does that mean KrebsOnSecurity will be renamed...KebabOnSecurity? :/

    That was hilarious, I showed a colleague, and he laughed his ass off at that.

    Thanked by 2k0nsl netomx

    My comments are mine and mine alone, and do not reflect the opinion of my business

  • AmitzAmitz Member
    edited September 2016

    @k0nsl said:
    I'm glad you've got faith in me, @Amitz.

    Of course I have! I have even seen you funnier before, so I know you can.

    Thanked by 1k0nsl

    For those who care:
    You can now find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com or https://www.hostballs.com

  • @jarland said:

    @iwaswrongonce said:

    @jarland said:
    Nothing against the writer but his conclusion didn't stand up to my personal requirements to draw such a conclusion. I fight fraud every day and I'm not convinced yet. If he's wrong, they should consider pursuing such action.

    Assuming you're correct, there's nothing illegal about being wrong. Defamation law isn't that simple.

    I think this covers it fairly well: http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/defamation-law-the-basics.html

    Not really. The only example of privilege they gave is testifying at a trial. IANAL, but typically statements are protected if there is a reasonable belief in accuracy. That article doesn't go into what speech is protected. Of course, this isn't strictly codified and hence what the courts are for, so he may still end up being sued, an expensive endeavor even if he is vindicated (and also why in the US legal threats are so effective).

  • @iwaswrongonce said:
    IANAL

    Is that a new Apple product?

  • i can tell you that i hate this abuse reporting policy. i report abuse to a lot of north american and uk hosts and so many of them do that. its a shit way to handle it. in 99.9% of cases that I report they could look at the traffic for as long as it takes to forward the email and they would know the user is a lowlife and cancel them.

  • pbgbenpbgben Member, Provider

    If this goes to Court then Hostsailor is going to have to answer a ton of questions they really don't want to be asked. Dotcom comes to mind here.

  • shovenoseshovenose Member, Provider

    @ATHK said:

    @iwaswrongonce said:
    IANAL

    Is that a new Apple product?

    I hate Apple but I'd buy that!

    Thanked by 2netomx Amitz
  • ATHKATHK Member
    edited September 2016

    @shovenose said:

    @ATHK said:

    @iwaswrongonce said:
    IANAL

    Is that a new Apple product?

    I hate Apple but I'd buy that!

    I'm sure you would, you dirty git. ;)

    Thanked by 1shovenose
  • @doughmanes said:
    Krebs sells book. Shows his motives.

    whereas hostsailor sells bulletproof hosting - shows their motives

    Thanked by 1switsys

    Contractually bound by a verbal non-disclosure agreement

  • texteditor said: whereas hostsailor sells bulletproof hosting - shows their motives

    A claim with minimal evidence. You'd expect something better from a guy who claims he's a journalist. It looks like a LET style airing out of assumptions.

    How to clean up a questionable reputation: throw the kids some BF/CM offers.

  • So this is what discussion at a non-ABA accredited law school sounds like.

    I had an answer typed up but because it's a muddled mess I'll just leave it at this:

    a) I don't know jack shit about UAE's laws

    b) Good luck to them enforcing anything on a US subject writing in the US with the most significant contact in the US in a country where even with a treaty extradition over CRIMINAL cases are comparatively rare and enforcing a non-OFAC related civil judgment is essentially throwing money at the lawyers.

    I want to work for that firm. This is free money.

    c) Not legal advice and I can totally be wrong.

    Subversion? That's some sort of software, right?

  • Never heard of either :/

    Favourite host in general: Ramnode (affiliate link)
    Favourite host for hourly billing/custom ISOs: Vultr ($50 free credit for new accounts, affiliate link)

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    lbft said: It's hilarious to me how eager LET is to take the side of a shithost over a respected journalist.

    Well, he has some... weird views, nothing too nefarious but some make not much sense in many ways.

    loot said: I want to work for that firm. This is free money.

    A US case involving freedom of speech... even if not ran by an Arab based country (which at this time is.... bad, especially in a jury) pretty pointless.

  • lbft said: It's hilarious to me how eager LET is to take the side of a shithost over a respected journalist.

    One is a member here, one isn't.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • Krebs has brought quite a few businesses down, I've happy to see HostSailor fighting back on the bs.

  • I mean look at him pushing books and traffic to his site then Akamai/Prolexic pulls the plug on him, he's looking to find somebody to host him for free versus pay out of his own pocket. I like Krebs on some stuff but when he turns into trying to make the story ("attention whore") versus report the story ("journalist") is when I start to question the guy.

    Thanked by 1netomx

    How to clean up a questionable reputation: throw the kids some BF/CM offers.

  • sinsin Member
    edited September 2016

    doughmanes said: he's looking to find somebody to host him for free versus pay out of his own pocket

    I agree with you on him acting sorta like an attention whore. I enjoy reading his blog and articles but sometimes he seems to act like the people he blogs about.

    Those protection companies are usually the ones to send him offers themselves though (like Cloudflare which has offered to protect him numerous times including during this latest attack).

  • Yeah I saw the Cloudflare tweets

    How to clean up a questionable reputation: throw the kids some BF/CM offers.

  • @doughmanes said:
    he's looking to find somebody to host him for free versus pay out of his own pocket.

    Even with all of the books and ads - do you truly think he can afford the $150-200,000 per year he states the commercial Akamai product would cost?

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • He has to do something otherwise he can be perceived as biased by accepting free hosting. Google Shield is probably the best bet for him which I'm surprised he passed the news/journalist requirement when he sells books.

    How to clean up a questionable reputation: throw the kids some BF/CM offers.

  • He's also a journalist and news reporter. Plenty of people in both of those careers write and sell books.

    Thanked by 2Ole_Juul sin
  • jarjar Provider
    edited September 2016

    @daily said:
    He's also a journalist and news reporter. Plenty of people in both of those careers write and sell books.

    It's jealousy. Not a single person who would give him shit over it would do anything significantly different if they found themselves in the same situation. They'd just do it their way and be called the same names by another group of people. We should just be happy that a highly respected blogger on security actually understands how the internet works. So often the "well respected authority" on matters is a complete idiot with a daytime talk show and a Wikipedia degree.

    Like any other outspoken person some people agree with him and some don't. Maybe some agree with him on some things and not others. That's literally just being human. No one can please everyone.

  • It's not a freedom of speech case, not in the traditional first amendment sense anyway, it's a business tort case, although really it's a hurt feelings case, which are hilarious to begin with but when a company essentially sends a demand letter with no appropriate venue or cause of action except what amounts of hurt feelings you wonder if their executives are crying or is it just sand getting into their eyes.

    Subversion? That's some sort of software, right?

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