OwnCloud forked into NextCloud, financial troubles kill OwnCloud's US subsidiary

lbft

Looks like some of the top contributors to OwnCloud (including the founder) have quit to start up a new fork (and new company) called NextCloud.

From the forkers: http://karlitschek.de/2016/06/nextcloud/, http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2016/06/nextcloud-is-replacing-owncloud.html and https://nextcloud.com/we-are-nextcloud-the-future-of-private-file-sync-and-share/

OwnCloud's own statement: https://owncloud.com/owncloud-statement-concerning-formation-nextcloud-frank-karlitschek/

Most interestingly, OwnCloud's statement says that their US banks pulled their credit and so they were shutting down their US office. That doesn't really make sense as something that happens over a couple of guys quitting, making me wonder if there's more going on behind the scenes. I'll be honest, I don't get why it needed to be so large in the first place for what it is.

OwnCloud never struck me as a particularly, um, robust piece of software (PHP implementation of WebDAV?!) but it is something that I'm sure a bunch of people here are using - might be worthwhile keeping an eye on the situation to see which fork wins.

There's more discussion on the interweb on Hacker News and reddit.

deadbeef

@lbft said:
OwnCloud never struck me as a particularly, um, robust piece of software (PHP implementation of WebDAV?!)

I have developed applications on OwnCloud and while its documentation is ...subpar and outdated (to say the least), the platform didn't have any issues.

Nyr

In my experience, ownCloud is lacking and buggy, to say at least. Specially some parts of the project.

Certainly not reliable for production.

trabia

When I read "financial troubles kill ownClouds US subsidiary", I have to say, I am not surprised. Before they had prices available on their commercial website I made a quote request. To be honest, I was shocked about the amount they wanted to have. I hope they will recover and do some good steps. The software has more potential than it uses at the moment.

Nekki

deadbeef said: I have developed applications on OwnCloud and while its documentation is ...subpar and outdated (to say the least), the platform didn't have any issues.

My experience is the pretty much the same, there are niggles here and there, but largely I've found it to be a reasonably solid and dependable bit of software for personal use.

KuJoe

I used OwnCloud briefly but wasn't impressed. I had a lot of friends use them, claim they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when I introduced them to SyncThing they were all quick to switch and none have switched back to my knowledge. They've all said how SyncThing was what they wanted OwnCloud to be and were glad not to have a central server that might fail.

JahAGR

Will be keeping a close eye on this moving forward. In my experience OwnCloud has been fairly buggy (especially server updates which were sometimes a nightmare experience) but overall was the best file sync solution for our particular needs. It has admittedly gotten a lot better, especially the sync client

Hoping the project doesn't go down the toilet overall. It looks like there's enough community dev interest in the fork so I will try to remain positive...

jar

@lbft said:
Most interestingly, OwnCloud's statement says that their US banks pulled their credit and so they were shutting down their US office. That doesn't really make sense as something that happens over a couple of guys quitting, making me wonder if there's more going on behind the scenes. I'll be honest, I don't get why it needed to be so large in the first place for what it is.

Yeah this is how that read to me:

"Our banks shut down our lines of credit, so by US law we had to shut down and fire everyone."

Uh, what? Perhaps a communication error, perhaps an outright lie. I don't have to be a lawyer to know that cancelling a credit card doesn't mean you're legally obligated to jump off a cliff. Something is not right with that statement.

Then again I certainly don't know everything.

jamesrat

I was never very impressed with owncloud. It had a lot of addons that allowed it to be a better platform. At the end of the day, the key feature seemed slow and unimpressive.

I started using Seafile and haven't looked back since.

netomx

@jarland said:

@lbft said:
Most interestingly, OwnCloud's statement says that their US banks pulled their credit and so they were shutting down their US office. That doesn't really make sense as something that happens over a couple of guys quitting, making me wonder if there's more going on behind the scenes. I'll be honest, I don't get why it needed to be so large in the first place for what it is.

Yeah this is how that read to me:

"Our banks shut down our lines of credit, so by US law we had to shut down and fire everyone."

Uh, what? Perhaps a communication error, perhaps an outright lie. I don't have to be a lawyer to know that cancelling a credit card doesn't mean you're legally obligated to jump off a cliff. Something is not right with that statement.

Then again I certainly don't know everything.

Maybe they didnt pay the credit

Neoon

So, Owncloud died died, time to migrate.

vimalware

There's pydio(now php ) and seafile (java process)

raindog308

KuJoe said: I used OwnCloud briefly but wasn't impressed. I had a lot of friends use them, claim they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when I introduced them to SyncThing they were all quick to switch and none have switched back to my knowledge. They've all said how SyncThing was what they wanted OwnCloud to be and were glad not to have a central server that might fail.

SyncThing is just syncing a folder, though, right?

What I really want is:

1. desktop sync

2. headless Linux client that ideally lets me specify syncing only a subdir

3. web-based access

4. pics, media, etc. via the web

5. it's nice to have a web-based GUI so if I want to go in and change a doc or look something up, I can do it if I'm on a guest system, kiosk, etc.

6. Sharing ("here's a link to a doc" or "hey internet, you can view this doc but not edit or see any of my others or have my name in the URL", etc.)

Today,

• Dropbox does all, though the last is weak

• OneDrive: (1) sucks and is unreliable, (2) does not exist, (5) is awesome

• Google Drive: Not sure about (2), (5) is very good, though of course for both OneDrive or Google Drive you're strongly corralled into using their proprietary formats.

OwnCloud potentially adds "7. you have more control over your data" but I haven't tried it...

mpkossen

@KuJoe said:
I used OwnCloud briefly but wasn't impressed. I had a lot of friends use them, claim they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when I introduced them to SyncThing they were all quick to switch and none have switched back to my knowledge. They've all said how SyncThing was what they wanted OwnCloud to be and were glad not to have a central server that might fail.

Thanks for the great suggestion! Hadn't heard about SyncThing yet, but it's something worth checking out.

Then again, still need to check out iwSea from Prometeus which simply has to be good, knowing Salvatore!

mpkossen

@jarland said:

@lbft said:
Most interestingly, OwnCloud's statement says that their US banks pulled their credit and so they were shutting down their US office. That doesn't really make sense as something that happens over a couple of guys quitting, making me wonder if there's more going on behind the scenes. I'll be honest, I don't get why it needed to be so large in the first place for what it is.

Yeah this is how that read to me:

"Our banks shut down our lines of credit, so by US law we had to shut down and fire everyone."

Uh, what? Perhaps a communication error, perhaps an outright lie. I don't have to be a lawyer to know that cancelling a credit card doesn't mean you're legally obligated to jump off a cliff. Something is not right with that statement.

Then again I certainly don't know everything.

I guess this is more about any loans they got that were now being pulled by investors. Then again, it's just a guess.

KuJoe

@raindog308 said:

KuJoe said: I used OwnCloud briefly but wasn't impressed. I had a lot of friends use them, claim they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when I introduced them to SyncThing they were all quick to switch and none have switched back to my knowledge. They've all said how SyncThing was what they wanted OwnCloud to be and were glad not to have a central server that might fail.

SyncThing is just syncing a folder, though, right?

What I really want is:

1. desktop sync

2. headless Linux client that ideally lets me specify syncing only a subdir

3. web-based access

4. pics, media, etc. via the web

5. it's nice to have a web-based GUI so if I want to go in and change a doc or look something up, I can do it if I'm on a guest system, kiosk, etc.

6. Sharing ("here's a link to a doc" or "hey internet, you can view this doc but not edit or see any of my others or have my name in the URL", etc.)

Today,

• Dropbox does all, though the last is weak

• OneDrive: (1) sucks and is unreliable, (2) does not exist, (5) is awesome

• Google Drive: Not sure about (2), (5) is very good, though of course for both OneDrive or Google Drive you're strongly corralled into using their proprietary formats.

OwnCloud potentially adds "7. you have more control over your data" but I haven't tried it...

Yeah, it's only for file sharing. Sounds like you need a Synology NAS. Try the demo and see how you like it: https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/live_demo

jar

mpkossen said: I guess this is more about any loans they got that were now being pulled by investors. Then again, it's just a guess.

I guess they could mean that by US law they're not allowed to employ people without paying them

heachhog

I have ownCloud running pretty much for nice GUI and quote straightforward file architecture & logic. Though at home I have Synology and I couldn't be happier for the potential that it has

raindog308

KuJoe said: Sounds like you need a Synology NAS.

I have two! Truly...one is my home TimeMachine box and the other is my home media server/NAS. They're both DS215j...but of course, they're home, not in a DC. Of course, there are synology hosting places...

vimalware

@raindog308 said:

KuJoe said: I used OwnCloud briefly but wasn't impressed. I had a lot of friends use them, claim they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when I introduced them to SyncThing they were all quick to switch and none have switched back to my knowledge. They've all said how SyncThing was what they wanted OwnCloud to be and were glad not to have a central server that might fail.

SyncThing is just syncing a folder, though, right?

What I really want is:

1. desktop sync

2. headless Linux client that ideally lets me specify syncing only a subdir

3. web-based access

4. pics, media, etc. via the web

5. it's nice to have a web-based GUI so if I want to go in and change a doc or look something up, I can do it if I'm on a guest system, kiosk, etc.

6. Sharing ("here's a link to a doc" or "hey internet, you can view this doc but not edit or see any of my others or have my name in the URL", etc.)

Today,

• Dropbox does all, though the last is weak

• OneDrive: (1) sucks and is unreliable, (2) does not exist, (5) is awesome

• Google Drive: Not sure about (2), (5) is very good, though of course for both OneDrive or Google Drive you're strongly corralled into using their proprietary formats.

OwnCloud potentially adds "7. you have more control over your data" but I haven't tried it...

Seafile does all this sorry, no DOC editing beyond Plain text/markdown.

The 'library' concept in Seafile is just a folder you want synced.(you can disable 'sync' on particular libraries depending on your needs/internet situation)
So, I picked up an iwsea plan from Prometeus.
https://www.prometeus.net/billing/cart.php?gid=26 (promo pricing still active)

raptorpeanutbuttr

@raindog308 said:

KuJoe said: I used OwnCloud briefly but wasn't impressed. I had a lot of friends use them, claim they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when I introduced them to SyncThing they were all quick to switch and none have switched back to my knowledge. They've all said how SyncThing was what they wanted OwnCloud to be and were glad not to have a central server that might fail.

SyncThing is just syncing a folder, though, right?

What I really want is:

1. desktop sync

2. headless Linux client that ideally lets me specify syncing only a subdir

3. web-based access

4. pics, media, etc. via the web

5. it's nice to have a web-based GUI so if I want to go in and change a doc or look something up, I can do it if I'm on a guest system, kiosk, etc.

6. Sharing ("here's a link to a doc" or "hey internet, you can view this doc but not edit or see any of my others or have my name in the URL", etc.)

Today,

• Dropbox does all, though the last is weak

• OneDrive: (1) sucks and is unreliable, (2) does not exist, (5) is awesome

• Google Drive: Not sure about (2), (5) is very good, though of course for both OneDrive or Google Drive you're strongly corralled into using their proprietary formats.

OwnCloud potentially adds "7. you have more control over your data" but I haven't tried it...

1. syncthing wiki / see windows clients/gui /syncthing trayzor in particular / https://docs.syncthing.net/users/contrib.html
2. install syncthing in docker / install syncthing-cli /
https://docs.syncthing.net/users/contrib.html
3. seafile/pydio/bozon/many more
https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted
https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted#file-sharing-and-synchronization
4. see 3
5. use screen or supervisor and run syncthing w/web ui on a directory or use the cli
https://docs.syncthing.net/users/config.html#config
6. see 3, eg use a cli app such as img.bi or a link to etherpad or whatnot
https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted#single-clickdrag-n-drop-upload
numerous options available
that github list of apps is like free donuts for a year

jamesrat

@raindog308 said:

What I really want is:

1. desktop sync

2. headless Linux client that ideally lets me specify syncing only a subdir

3. web-based access

4. pics, media, etc. via the web

5. it's nice to have a web-based GUI so if I want to go in and change a doc or look something up, I can do it if I'm on a guest system, kiosk, etc.

6. Sharing ("here's a link to a doc" or "hey internet, you can view this doc but not edit or see any of my others or have my name in the URL", etc.)

Seafile does most of this minus the doc editing unless you are using the pro version (which is free for 3 users).

If anyone would like to give Seafile a try I have an instance up and running I would be more than happy to let anyone demo it just PM me. There is also a very easy installer available that will configure a VPS from scratch: https://github.com/seafile/seafile-server-installer

dragon2611

@KuJoe said:
I used OwnCloud briefly but wasn't impressed. I had a lot of friends use them, claim they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when I introduced them to SyncThing they were all quick to switch and none have switched back to my knowledge. They've all said how SyncThing was what they wanted OwnCloud to be and were glad not to have a central server that might fail.

I use Syncthing and Pydio together.

Syncthing because Pydio's sync client is pretty poor, esp when you get into thousands of small files , Pydio for stuff I want to access via a web interface or share.

If you point them both at the same backend folders there's no reason you can't have a folder that's synced via syncthing and also available in the pydio web interface.

Still watching/playing with infinit but it's not usable enough yet to replace pydio/syncthing.

pechspilz

I'm only using Owncloud for easy file sharing, I don't need any auto file sync. Since there are almost always problems when upgrading Owncloud: are there other products for easy filesharing? I've looked at Pydio but wasn't impressed with its interface speed.

dragon2611

When did you last look at Pydio, one of the fairly recent updates re-designed the interface and it does seem better now.

hiphiphip0

For people who want to share files only, check
https://github.com/kalcaddle/KODExplorer

raza19

Two days back I was coincidentally thinking why do we people not use syncthing more, it is an excellent piece of software. I have syncthing setup with my own relays and it is marvellous. I have never experienced any bug.

gilesfinance

niceeee

Nekki

@gilesfinance said:
niceeee

Mods, when are you actually going to ban this spambot? @FAT32 @Jord @raindog308

Saahib

Ah.. I suppose there is feature which can close topics older than certain days automatically. Why not close topics those were inactive for 30 days.

TimboJones

@Saahib said:
Ah.. I suppose there is feature which can close topics older than certain days automatically. Why not close topics those were inactive for 30 days.

30 days might not be long enough, but 3 years for a start sure is.