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PayPal Reversal of Funds
Okey,
I sold a reseller hosting to a guy from Africa. Later the funds got reversed from payPal and they say its a case of "Un Authorised" Payment.
We replied with proof of deliverly, invoices and account info.
The Client seems totatally unaware ( he didnt do any thing to file a dispute or whatever ) keeps in touch thoughout and says his account is limited now and the case status is "reviwed by paypal"
And today i recieve a confirmation that the funds are now reversed. I lost $15.
As per their last email :
We have conducted a review of a payment that you received. In this case, returning the funds to the sender was determined to be the appropriate action, and we have completed a reversal of the payment. **Good selling practices like trackable shipping, prompt shipment, and communication between buyer and seller help prevent disputes.
**
I dont get it, the Buyer never requested any dispute and their was no complain from his side. How can PayPal act on its own and reverse the payment.
Was it a case of stolen Card ? They never said so. They just asked for a proof of shipment.
Plz advise.
Comments
I don't like the way paypal handles some things. Unfortunately this stuff happens and you to be prepared for anything like that. Sorry to hear
Stolen card or stolen PayPal. Or the client is outright lying to you and did a reversal.
Wht i cant understand is, till now whenever there has been a dispute, i was able to get the client's complain. here, it seems there was no word from the client.
The Payment was marked as "Un Authorised" and all i was aksed was a proof of shipment.
The Client said, they sent an email and paypal said they needed to verify if it was a "service" ( which it was ).
Im not really sure what happened. Seems to be a case of stolen PayPal.
I've often wondered how stolen PayPal accounts pan out. Perhaps this is one such case and the guy is playing dumb. I've seen sites who stock PayPal accounts for resale, so I guess people are buying them.
As a long term seller of things and services, I recommend being very careful to properly match what you get paid for against what you provide. If you accept a payment for a service that includes a shipping address, from paypal's perspective you have sold goods and you will always lose that money if you cannot prove delivery. This is true even if you have provided the service in full.
If you are on LET, presumably you are only selling services, not goods. If you control your paypal interface, you should not be getting payments that require a shipping address. If you are, something is wrong in your setup. If you sell services, like I do, you can win against complaints, but you have to have signed documentation where the customer explicitly states that they are receiving a service and a refund can only be provided if the service is not provided. Paypal will not get involved in disputes about the quality of services. If your service costs $250, it makes sense to get this original, signed documentation from the client. If you are selling services that cost $15, it is better to reject payments that are likely to cause problems, perhaps like this one. Always remember that it is OK to simply have lost the money, the killer is the $10 chargeback fee for taking the payment in the first place.
It should not surprise you that your client reacted like he did. After all, he was continuing to get what he contracted for, the service. The fact that his account was opened with a stolen credit card would explain why his account was limited. As he continues to participate, he continues to use the service he wanted. And again the fact that he didn't open a dispute with you doesn't mean much. The person who had the credit card stolen in the first place cannot open a dispute with you. All they see as a charge that they did not authorize. The charge is labelled "PAYPAL" so they call and complain. Next stop, your problem.
Your client did it deliberately, and now lying that he didn't.
I had same situation when selling a domain to a flippa user, thought there was flippa team between. He had to stop dispute when flippa team threatened him for legal action.
Try 2co.com
You idiot... The 2co chargeback fee is WAY higher than PayPal.
This. Some customers lie. It's unavoidable. Some will have really good stories too, good enough to convince just about anyone. But when you pull apart the possibilities and start stripping away the improbable options, you're left with the most likely truth, and the most likely truth is that this person is a liar and you need to terminate their service.
If they're not lying, they can bring to you communications from PayPal stating the mistake that PayPal made.
In my experience, PayPal won't just randomly act on a users account unless an complaint has been made, be that the bank or a dispute. I've never seen them randomly dispute payments, it doesn't make sense for them to be so proactive about it either.
You can't verify a paypal account with a stolen card without having access to the card's statement, so it`s probably the customer lying about this.
They do. We had a few cases to date where a payment disappeared after a few minutes and was reversed. It was PayPal's risk team spotting the stolen account.
Good thing is that in such case they save you the chargeback fee. If they wouldn't do that the Cardholder would complaint to their bank and you'd loose even more.
Hmm that's pretty awesome, however in my 7 years I haven't had it happen nor hear of it happen.. Normally they just tell you, oh it was probably stolen, nothing we can do except waive the fee.
I was surprised as well. Funds are gone first, email comes later so I actually managed to call them before the explaination arrived, I agree though, it's very rare.
it's soo easy to get something like this stopped (buyer side) so he is indeed a liar.
PayPal also charge USD 20.00 chargeback fee if paid by CC
I've had around 4 chargebacks in the lifetime of my 2co account and ever been charged a fee, even though I've not fought any of them. I've had my account since 2011 so this might be before they started implanting the fee, and anyway they don't really accept new signups for hosting clients anymore.
Back on topic, the best thing you can do next time is provide screenshots of email delivery logs (mandrill or mta logs), copy of welcome email sent, client details from WHMCS, event log from WHMCS and client logs from cPanel/SolusVM or whatever panel you have.
Don't worry yourself too much over a $15 chargeback, it's not worth it. You can always sell that reseller to someone who isn't a cunt.
And please report him to fraudrecord for the sake of other hosts
What would the OP achieve by moving to 2CO? I'm pretty sure they'd ask for the same info PP asked him to provide and resulted in the same conclusion if it was a hacked PP.
If a chargeback has been made by the bank then PP would reverse it immediately, some banks do give their merchants time to submit proof whilst others won't and just cb straight away.
Infact , I did have a 2CO account, i reached.. like $300 in 2014 ( the first month of my business ) and then faced a chargeback.
2CO closed my account and money was lost.
The Chargeback was for a $10 amount ! and I Lost $300. Paypal have been very good, their local offices now being in India makes phone support really outstanding.
Thats seems to be the EXACT explanation for my case.
When did this change? I never had to show any credit card statement to add my card to Paypal. I have my Paypal account tied to both my bank account and credit card along with having a Paypal debit card too and all I remember having to do was verify 2 small deposits to my bank account.
Veryfing 2 small deposits = you need the statements
The chargeback fee that the CC company charges is passed over to the merchant too.
I'm used to people needing "high end dedicated servers with port 25 unblocked on a gigabit port..." FraudRecord helps a plenty and saves on chargeback fees. Plus, you get the feeling that you've helped other companies avoid the scammers
On my personal account had similar issue, it was Ebay physical item and I had a tracking number, but PayPal case workers need to point to it as they blind retards (exactly my comments on PayPal feedback form). In my case I phone them up and pointed out as all information about postal tracking was on PayPal and Ebay system and customer left 5* feedback on my account.
This is a reason need to phone PayPal instead of using their online system and they do action instantly or advise you that you need to submit as evidence depends on case.
Whoops, it's been so long since my bank had paper statements - I just look at those verification deposits online.
My avatar likes your quote.
I just added a new card to my Paypal yesterday and there was no such requirement. Just typed in the info and subsequently used it successfully to charge.
For bank accounts, they do the two-deposits thing but not for credit cards, at least not in my experience.
@raindog308 it was definitely verified when I was adding my first card, no deposits when 2nd and subsequent.
Not for the second card. I added a second card in my paypal account recently and I did not have to verify it, but I did verify the first card I inserted in the account.