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Iran based clients... Legal in the United States?

pubcrawlerpubcrawler Banned
edited February 2013 in General

Does anyone know what the current status of Iran is... If they are on a no trade list for US businesses?

Have an inbound data services inquiry from an Iran based company (no, not VPS, that's not my sector).

Was under the belief (perhaps wrongly) that they are a non-export or trade only with federal government special approval.

Anyone have a clue on this?

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Comments

  • KMyersKMyers Member

    No, if you are a US based business, you may not do business with an Iranian national or business.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    It's slightly more complicated than that, but it appears the answer is still no. I am not a lawyer, etc.

    http://menalawyer.com/2012/01/15/doing-business-with-iran-limitations-and-permissions/

  • DomainBopDomainBop Member

    if you're a US based business you can't do business with any person or business in Iran (and if you're a US based person as of last week you can no longer watch Iranian TV news shows or Iranian film channels on satellite TV in the US because "freedom of the press" and sanctions apparently don't mix)

  • pubcrawlerpubcrawler Banned

    So if I were selling data services, maybe ummm bandwidth we'll call it and I am in the United States and the buyer is Iranian citizen perhaps here on a visa... but who clearly sells such services to Iranian companies....

    Still sounds like it runs afoul ehh?

  • qpsqps Member, Host Rep
    edited February 2013

    The US Government doesn't play around when it comes to these sanctions. I would stay far, far away.

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/iran.aspx

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @pubcrawler said: So if I were selling data services, maybe ummm bandwidth we'll call it and I am in the United States and the buyer is Iranian citizen perhaps here on a visa... but who clearly sells such services to Iranian companies....

    They might turn their heads to a little Cuban business here and there, but Iran is a soft spot right now and I'd say jail time is a reality.

  • DamianDamian Member

    From http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/iran.pdf :

    On August 19, 1997, the President signed Executive Order 13059 clarifying
Executive Orders 12957 and 12959 and confirming that virtually all trade and
investment activities with Iran by U.S. persons, wherever located, are
prohibited.

    ---snip---

    Criminal penalties for violations of the Iranian Transactions Regulations may
result in a fine up to $1,000,000, and natural persons may be imprisoned for up
to 20 years. Civil penalties, which are not to exceed the greater of $250,000 or
an amount that is twice the amount of the transaction that is the basis of the
violation with respect to which the penalty is imposed may also be imposed
administratively.

    ---snip---

    • EXPORTS TO IRAN - In general, unless licensed by OFAC, goods, technology, or
services may not be exported, reexported, sold or supplied, directly or
indirectly, from the United States or by a U.S. person, wherever located, to
Iran or the Government of Iran. The ban on providing services includes any
brokering function from the United States or by U.S. persons, wherever located.
  • DomainBopDomainBop Member
    edited February 2013

    "Still sounds like it runs afoul ehh?"

    I think it would definitely be considered afoul but you should check the Treasury Department's sanctions brochure and FAQ to make sure

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/iran.aspx

    edit: or you could just read the excerpts the sanctions brochure Damian posted while I was typing :P

  • DamianDamian Member

    @pubcrawler said: Still sounds like it runs afoul ehh?

    It does:

    In general, a person may not export from the U.S. any goods, technology or
services, if that person knows or has reason to know such items are intended
specifically for supply, transshipment or reexportation to Iran. Further, such
exportation is prohibited if the exporter knows or has reason to know the U.S.
items are intended specifically for use in the production of, for commingling
with, or for incorporation into goods, technology or services to be directly or
indirectly supplied, transshipped or reexported exclusively or predominately to
Iran or the Government of Iran.

    It kinda sucks; we've had several prospective clients from Iran that we've had to turn away.

  • nstormnstorm Member

    They are already waming up the engine of the partyvan for you...

  • pubcrawlerpubcrawler Banned
    edited February 2013

    Man those are some hefty penalties.

    I don't see any way a US citizen or company can sell anything to anyone Iranian, legally, without special exemption.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    I removed Iran from the countries.php file in WHMCS just to be sure, easiest method (as long as you use MaxMind and tell it to Reject Country Mismatch).

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Well sanctions are a tough deal. You can feed an economy without dealing with a government, and sanctions are designed to hit them economically. Not really going into opinions on this, but I understand it.

  • dnwkdnwk Member

    @jarland said: sanctions are designed to hit them economically

    Well, in this case, the sanctions hit US too. so that some LEB providers might have to lose business.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @dnwk said: in this case

    I would say that in most cases it backfires, as we generally don't do business with someone without a mutual benefit and cutting off our business with them has to impact both ways. I suppose the idea is that we can take the impact and they can't, in an ideal scenario. Whether or not that is actually true or effective, well, I'll save that for a rainy day ;)

  • pubcrawlerpubcrawler Banned

    How about peering? Do you folks think even if peering was free that it somehow would be allowed under these sanctions?

  • KrisKris Member

    @pubcrawler said: How about peering? Do you folks think even if peering was free that it somehow would be allowed under these sanctions?

    Peering, I doubt it would be free - but any business with Iran, paid or not = big no go for US businesses, period.

    Extreme trade sanctions.

  • pubcrawlerpubcrawler Banned

    Man I tell you, it's mighty whacky when one of our own is dealing with the "enemy" then.

  • RobertClarkeRobertClarke Member, Host Rep

    Don't risk it, I personally have blocked orders from all high-risk countries.

  • geekalotgeekalot Member

    @pubcrawler, walk away ... if you are US based, it is not worth it at ANY price. Read slashdot to get up to speed on all the tinfoil hat government overreach paranoia. :-)

    Hell, I've been uneasy about VPSes I have from some providers based in certain countries just based on how their invoices present themselves on Paypal (or by extension, the credit card statement when using Paypal).

    Total BS, but totally "1984" all day long.

  • wroxwrox Member

    @RobertJFClarke
    Iran isn't a high-risk country. It is suffering from trade sanctions.

  • gsrdgrdghdgsrdgrdghd Member

    Out of curiosity - would it be possible for me (as a non-US citizen) to rent a server in the US and then use it to host Iranians?

  • KernelSandersKernelSanders

    You have to be joking @worx.. Iran is definitely a high risk country.

  • rds100rds100 Member

    @gsrdgrdghd i believe the EU also has restrictions for selling to Iran. So you might stumble with the German authorities.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited February 2013

    @geekalot said: Hell, I've been uneasy about VPSes I have from some providers based in certain countries just based on how their invoices present themselves on Paypal

    Well, if paypal can do business with them...
    We get regular questions asking if we allow iranian customers. I am not sure if Italy was forced to follow the american war on terror, from what I know EU does not participate and they had to kidnap people on the street to get to Guantanamo and torture since Italy would have not agreed even in Berlusconi's era, however, on the trade front, I am not sure.
    Right now no country is blocked, but if it is illegal, then will change, no matter how crazy the law is, it is still the law.
    Anyone knows anything about that ?

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @Liam said: Some old man here (uk) bought some industrial grade batteries from the USA and sold them to a guy in Netherlands who was apparently Iranian (and was sending them to Iran).

    That is a great way to setup someone. Who knows where your products are going to end up... If someone buys VPS from US and resells to Iran, will end up in jail even if not american ?
    I thought only americans should respect US law, after all, it is their war, not ours.

  • KernelSandersKernelSanders

    Yeah like @Liam said, they'll definitely extradite you if you break a US Sanction. Britain was probably happy to hand him over.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited February 2013

    I'm quite certain, though not 100%, that the U.N. also has sanctions against Iran. This would mean penalties for anyone in the U.N. dealing with Iran. Although the more strict sanctions, as I understand it, are U.S. executive orders. Regardless, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is an international thing.

    I could be getting some things confused in my head. It's not a topic of deep study for me.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    UN sanctions are about things related to the supposed nuclear weapons program. It also involves civilian nuclear technology and other technology that has a high chance to be used in an alleged nuclear program.
    EU added on that financial and oil/mineral trade bans at US pressure forcing Iran to sell the 20% it was exporting to EU in China and other asian countries together with the rest of the 80% going there.
    Regarding payment, since they can use paypal, I dont see a problem there.

  • ztecztec Member

    I signed a contract with my bank that I can not do business with Iran using that bankaccount. This is in The Netherlands.

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