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SendGrid/SES vs Dedicated server
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SendGrid/SES vs Dedicated server

GulfGulf Member

I use cloud email services. I send around 1-2 million emails per month (system notifications with files, alerts, no spam). I could buy a server for 60 usd from OVH and setup it as email server. How will this affect the deliverability? Does Gmail set a daily quota for IP ?

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Comments

  • AndreixAndreix Member, Host Rep

    It will be suspended before you'll reach near 100k emails.

    Thanked by 1Gulf
  • Awmusic12635Awmusic12635 Member, Host Rep

    For that many emails you will without a doubt need a professional mail delivery service

    Thanked by 2Gulf chrisp
  • BharatBBharatB Member, Patron Provider

    @Gulf said:
    I use cloud email services. I send around 1-2 million emails per month (system notifications with files, alerts, no spam). I could buy a server for 60 usd from OVH and setup it as email server. How will this affect the deliverability? Does Gmail set a daily quota for IP ?

    First of all you'll need to setup DKIM SPF rDNS for each IP then you need to warm em up to make sure they're going into inbox and not spam. But still there's not guarantee.

    Thanked by 1Gulf
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    OVH IP reputation is fairly bad. You may get a block that doesn't show up on a lot of blacklists but that doesn't mean your emails will get there.

    I found a lot of larger mail services had their ranges blocked. Not necessarily for email spam. I had to resubmit removal requests to AOL every month or so despite being in their feedback loop with 0 reports. Verizon couldn't care less. Microsoft didn't want to talk about it.

    Basically, deliverability from their IPs will be a nightmare. Managing your own IP reputation is quickly becoming a dice roll.

    Thanked by 2Gulf flatland_spider
  • Who are you sending these emails to ?

    People on the same (owned by you) or other domains (gmail, outlook, yahoo, etc).

    It shouldn't be a problem if you are sending emails within your own domain (Kindly correct me if I am wrong)

    Thanked by 1Gulf
  • IshaqIshaq Member

    Gulf said: OVH

    Hahahaha.

    Thanked by 1vanhels
  • GulfGulf Member

    @ez2uk said:
    Who are you sending these emails to ?

    People on the same (owned by you) or other domains (gmail, outlook, yahoo, etc).

    It shouldn't be a problem if you are sending emails within your own domain (Kindly correct me if I am wrong)

    Thank you for answers.
    It is a list of subscribers.

    I pay ~300 usd to SendGrid + SES every month. Even if I buy a small server in the premium DC with cleanest IP, looks like it wouldn't be a good replacement.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited March 2016

    @Gulf said:
    I pay ~300 usd to SendGrid + SES every month. Even if I buy a small server in the premium DC with cleanest IP, looks like it wouldn't be a good replacement.

    That's not too terrible given the volume at least. I love MailChannels but that's in the $499/m range.

    If you could split up your sending by recipient domain you might be able to shave off cost. I never had an issue with Gmail on OVH, for the record. I bet that represents a good chunk of your list.

    Thanked by 1Gulf
  • kkrajkkkrajk Member
    edited March 2016

    why not ask @jarland to make you a custom deal for your requirement. I remember reading in one of the threads where he was asking another member here to contact him wrt to mass mailing requirements

    EDIT - Sorry late reply

    Thanked by 1Gulf
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @ez2uk said:
    why not ask jarland to make you a custom deal for your requirement. I remember reading in one of the threads where he was asking another member here to contact him wrt to mass mailing requirements

    EDIT - Sorry late reply

    My costs for that volume are higher than what he pays, but I'm at least happy to brainstorm and offer any advice or ideas I can :)

  • GulfGulf Member

    Pure emails without attachments cost less than 100$. It is 40% of payment, but Amazon charges a lot for attachments, so eventually I have to pay 250$+.

  • RazzaRazza Member

    jarland said: OVH IP reputation is fairly bad

    jarland said: Basically, deliverability from their IPs will be a nightmare

    I manage a Cpanel server for a client hosted on a ovh server no email deliverability issues to Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo i dont think all of ovh's ip ranges are totally bad for email's, i do agree with Microsoft getting them to remove a ip address blocked due to other ip in the same ip ranges is totally hopeless.

  • Sign up to the $20 a year mxroute deal for your 2 million emails, much cheaper than $300 a month!

    Thanked by 1BeardyUnixGuy
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Razza said: no email deliverability issues to Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo

    Sometimes you do get a good dice roll. If your luck runs out, good chance you have to start routing your mail elsewhere or leave OVH over it. Pretty tough situation to find yourself in.

  • GulfGulf Member

    @Razza said:
    I manage a Cpanel server for a client hosted on a ovh server no email deliverability issues to Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo

    How do you track this?
    Gmail could put your email in the spam box without dmarc notification.

  • I'm extremely happy with SendGrid. They have great pricing. Mails are delivered (and appear to get marked as "important" in Gmail- which helps open rates). They have a feature rich control panel (fully featured marketing campaigns, transactional templates and more) which offers good statistics.

  • RazzaRazza Member
    edited March 2016

    Gulf said: How do you track this? Gmail could put your email in the spam box without dmarc notification.

    I agree on what you are saying gmail could just be putting them in spam, i don't have anyway to track that, the server got 200 plus domains on it mix of personal and business websites not had any complaints about mail getting rejected or going to spam.

  • GulfGulf Member
    edited March 2016

    @Ishaq said:
    Hahahaha.

    Mailjet uses OVH infrastructure.

    http://whois.domaintools.com/mailjet.com

    https://twitter.com/mailjetdev/status/663993299527692288

    So your comment is not fair.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @Gulf said:
    So your comment is not fair.

    Do they send from OVH IPs? Is MailJet even a decent service? Honest questions, I think I may have heard of the name once. I don't think I know anyone using their service.

  • GulfGulf Member

    @jarland said:
    Do they send from OVH IPs?

    I think yes. OVH is their main investor and hosting provider.

  • GulfGulf Member

    @jarland said:
    Do they send from OVH IPs? Is MailJet even a decent service? Honest questions,

    Yep, I was right.

    If you dig the spf records of mailjet, you will see pure ovh ips.

    http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=txt%3aspf.mailjet.com&run=toolpage

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited March 2016

    @Gulf said:
    ovh ips

    I wonder what their trick is. Pure luck or greasing palms? I think if you have enough money and/or contacts you can do a lot better than us little guys can.

    Except Verizon because I think they hate money and I'm positive their abuse team has no friends :P

    Thanked by 1Gulf
  • jhjh Member

    At that volume, I believe SES is best. It's one of those things - it's best to let someone else worry about deliverability for a small price difference (SES is really cheap for high volume)

    Thanked by 1Gulf
  • GulfGulf Member

    @jarland said:
    Except Verizon because I think they hate money and I'm positive their abuse team has no friends :P

    Mailjet could ruin a myth about OVH bad reputation.
    I do not believe ISPs would block OVH by default.

  • Use mxroute.

  • @linuxthefish said:
    Sign up to the $20 a year mxroute deal for your 2 million emails, much cheaper than $300 a month!

    @tr1cky said:
    Use mxroute.

    MXroute uses MailChannels, which will be very expensive for the maintainers of the MXroute, if a client posts 2M+ emails a month. So I guess it's forbidden to send that many of emails through MXroute.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • Maybe you can pack the attachments on the cloud storage solution (like dropbox) and embed links to the attachments in email itself (to get lowered the costs on Amazon SES, if emails are cheaper without attachments).

    Other than that, you may also want to check (and try) ElasticEmail.com or LeaderSend.com

  • GulfGulf Member

    @Hosted said:
    ElasticEmail.com

    Are they alive? They never answer sales tickets....

  • Mail deliverability management is a huge pain. If you really want to do it yourself, what I can recommend is:

    1. Rent a server from a reputable provider (you can try Scaleway C2 for good pricing);
    2. Install Cuttlefish (https://cuttlefish.io/) on it and make sure that you had configured correctly your firewall and Postfix. People outside your network should not be capable to authenticate or send mail;
    3. Get and setup a valid SSL certificate for your SMTP and for your POP3/IMAP (and for Cuttlefish, of course);
    4. Setup DNSSEC for your domain;
    5. Create a subdomain (like mail.example.com) and setup SPF, DKIM and DMARC;
    6. Configure the MX for your new subdomain;
    7. Select the smallest less important portion of your client base. Make sure you have at least one client from every mail provider on your list;
    8. Remove them from your main mail list;
    9. Warm up your IP (https://sendgrid.com/blog/how-to-warm-up-an-ip-address-how-much-and-when/);
    10. After the warm up process start to migrate your clients to your new mailing list. Take extra care and do it slowly to catch any possible problem before you get blacklisted.

    After some months you should have migrated your entire user base to your own server. Be aware that you will have to look at your stats daily and take care of your server as a treasure because spammers could try to hijack it.

    Good luck.

    P.S.: If you want to try Cuttlefish before messing with it, request a invitation here: https://cuttlefish.oaf.org.au/

    Thanked by 1Gulf
  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    jarland said: I wonder what their trick is. Pure luck or greasing palms? I think if you have enough money and/or contacts you can do a lot better than us little guys can.

    I always assumed that there was paid whitelisting with the big senders (SES, mailchimp, etc) and that's why they weren't getting internal blacklists when they get a bad signup.

    Maybe i'm just jaded from tracking down spammers for so long.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1jar
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