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'VPS Is dead'
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'VPS Is dead'

edited November 2011 in General

Described as "Biggest. Troll. Ever." by cowboy Francisco -Now 2 times!

Comments

  • Well...

    If someone can explain with human language WTF is a "cloud infraestructure"...

  • @yomero said: If someone can explain with human language WTF is a "cloud infraestructure"...

    basicaly its xen what enables providers to rip the customer off.

  • All the Paraells products I have ever used have been crap.

    Described as "Biggest. Troll. Ever." by cowboy Francisco -Now 2 times!

  • @net said: All the Paraells products I have ever used have been crap.

    Plesk 10.4 is okay i use it on a few servers

  • @DanielM said: Plesk 10.4 is okay i use it on a few servers

    I meant more like their desktop/server virtualisation products.

    Described as "Biggest. Troll. Ever." by cowboy Francisco -Now 2 times!

  • @net said: I meant more like their desktop/server virtualisation products.

    ahh in that case i agree :)

  • bretonbreton Member
    edited November 2011

    Cloud Infrastructure is quickly becoming the new standard and growth engine for delivering Infrastructure services to SMBs replacing traditional VPS.

    No it doesn't

  • MrAndroidMrAndroid Member
    edited November 2011

    Replace the word "cloud" with web on any text you see, and it instantly makes sense!!

    I wonder why, because your actually changing it to what it is

    Cloud Storage => Web Storage
    Cloud VPS => Web VPS
    Cloud Servers => Web Servers
    Cloud Hosting => Web Hosting

    I have reversed engineer the awful market stratergy used by some host.

    I think we should ban the word cloud from any Internet activity, people actually believe cloud is something different

    Microsoft offer 50 different products under the word cloud

    The Original Daniel.

  • Cloud, What everyone thinks it means is a cluster of servers basicly redundant.
    If one server drops another falls In place with the uptime not affected, This is the real definition but not all clouds are setup like this.

    AboveClouds • UK Company • UK Datacentre • UK Customer Support

    High Performance Pure SSD Cloud Hosting with a personal touch

  • @EaseVPS said: If one server drops another falls In place with the uptime not affected, This is the real definition but not all clouds are setup like this.

    This is called HA

  • Cloud is an otherwise empty space filled with water vapour :) Or with marketing vapour.

    -

  • JacobJacob Member
    edited November 2011

    @DanielM

    That is the actual marketing term of what a cloud is defined as though, People see it as paying $10 / $20 extra per month for a overpriced "Cloud" VPS will get you better uptime,performance,etc.. None of this is true. It's all marketing tactics.

    @rds100

    Wikipedia is a very good website. :)

    AboveClouds • UK Company • UK Datacentre • UK Customer Support

    High Performance Pure SSD Cloud Hosting with a personal touch

  • MrAndroidMrAndroid Member
    edited November 2011

    @EaseVPS said: If one server drops another falls In place with the uptime not affected, This is the real definition but not all clouds are setup like this.

    Im pretty sure if a lazy engineer spilled coffee over the storage servers, or tripped over the power cables for the DC, I can pretty much assure your VPS isn't going to be online. Even if its "Cloud"

    People say Cloud is the future, so what happens if everyone is using "Cloud", will "Mars" become the new marketing term?

    The Original Daniel.

  • Why exactly would power cables be on the ground, and what datacentre would allow people into the server rooms with liquids? :P

    True cloud probably is the way forward. Dynamically expanding clusters, redundancy etc. Right now datacentres are so wasteful, especially in terms of power usage. 99% of the use of the word "Cloud" is marketing bollocks right now though.

  • Go59954Go59954 Member
    edited November 2011

    @Daniel said: Replace the word "cloud" with web on any text you see, and it instantly makes sense!!

    I wonder why, because your actually changing it to what it is
    Cloud Storage => Web Storage
    Cloud VPS => Web VPS
    Cloud Servers => Web Servers
    Cloud Hosting => Web Hosting
    I have reversed engineer the awful market stratergy used by some host.
    I think we should ban the word cloud from any Internet activity, people actually believe cloud is something different
    Microsoft offer 50 different products under the word cloud

    I guess you are right! I came to a conclusion that all VPS are cloud!! Obviously what some VPS providers where coming with is just playing with words to make it more attractive to clients :)

    ☻☻ VPS ☺ as of now:- 384-256-128-512x2 ☺☺

  • @Go59954 said: words to make it more attractive to clients!

    and more expensive....

  • edited November 2011

    vps.net is the worse culprit. Absolutely terrible servers and network they class themselves as 'cloud' they are just oversold crap servers. In reality thier 1gb vps should be sold for like £10-15 not £40.

    Described as "Biggest. Troll. Ever." by cowboy Francisco -Now 2 times!

  • MrAndroidMrAndroid Member
    edited November 2011

    The Critism of Cloud Computing section on Wikipedia, which highlighted where the CEO of Oracle and Richard Stallman had basically just said that its just a buzz word, and critised it.

    Well, its been removed off the Wikipedia entry by this guy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SamJohnston who from a little research appears to work at Equinix and enjoys using the buzzword.

    So theres bias and lying in Wikipedia, and obvious example.

    The Original Daniel.

  • @Daniel said: So theres bias and lying in Wikipedia

    I'm sorry, but did you ever actually believe that Wikipedia was a credible source of knowledge?

  • To me, a "cloud" meets the following requirements:

    • Pay by the hour
    • Can dynamically expand virtual machines RAM and CPU allotment
    • Has an API for starting/stopping VMs as needed

    If it doesn't have all of those (and I'm probably forgetting some requirement), it's not a cloud, plain and simple. It's not a "buzz word" - cloud computing is a pretty clearly defined thing (at least in my mind) and companies are straight up lying to people when they call their simple unmanaged VPS offerings "cloud servers".

  • I would add hot-swappable hardware to the list (at least my view on what a cloud service is).

  • Cloud
    image

    Period.

  • @Daniel said: Replace the word "cloud" with web on any text you see

    Wait a minute. Isn't "Web" a marketing term as well?!

    You know, the that word comes from World-Wide-Web, which was originally just a term to describe decentralised documents encoded in hyper text markup language that link to each other with URLs, and transmitted over the TCP/IP layer using protocol described in RFC2616?

    Blog at LowEndBox.com.

  • MrAndroidMrAndroid Member
    edited November 2011

    @aldryic For some things (eg Geology) yes. But otherwise it just seems all bias and pro-commercial.

    @NickM But according to Microsoft, Cloud Computing is also editing a photo

    @lowendtalk Yeh, i realise the world wide web just refers to the http/ftp etc stack, But it's so muddled up now-a-days due to the media. But at least it isn't muddling it up with water vapour

    Also, I realised my formula dosent work on Cloud VPS, but it still made some sort of sense

    Most "Cloud" services are managed via a web interface,

    The Original Daniel.

  • And before everybody used the word "cloud" it was "grid", I remenber testing the gs plan from MediaTemple, Dreamhost at the time was much faster and stable than them :( ugly fact from those days.

  • There are whole of infra design behind a real cloud service. Your data, network and redundancy, seemless access must all be in place. Arrays of network storage servers, multi redundancy network, CPU power, etc.

    I went to a couple of cloud related seminar, one of the significant one is from Dell. They represent their cloud solution from hardware to software integration within a datacenter. Things like Equalogic storage servers where you can build arrays of SAN, move from one to another without the downtime, load balance I/O, management of servers using VMWares realtime, moving from on hardware to another without downtimes, etc. They also showcase their four10 network switches and routers with recommended network design optimized for cloud solution called VLT.

  • @DotVPS said: I don't even see why "Cloud servers" are more than other VPS's. in my experience most providers are just giving out a XEN VPS with a custom panel in the billing area which allows " Instant upgrades" To be honest i think its a bit of a sales scam.

    Because the majority of customers don't have a clue. They see cloud and they're instantly attracted to it. Of course the few providers that do have a real cloud set up are probably worth the money (if that's what you need).

  • @Kairus said: Because the majority of customers don't have a clue. They see cloud and they're instantly attracted to it. Of course the few providers that do have a real cloud set up are probably worth the money (if that's what you need).

    There's no way to have a real cloud setup, we haven't been able to store data in electromagnetic currents in the clouds yet.

    Even if we were able to, the UK would be raining data all day, not cool!

    The Original Daniel.

  • Everyone has his/her own interpretation of what a cloud is. Many hosts see it as a High Availability platform with SAN or clustered storage. In this case the cloud is a combination of many buzzwords from the last couple of years. Is it completely new: no. Could you name it a marketing term: yes, but does it mean that this is a bad thing?

    Some say what @NickM mentioned. It is only a cloud when you pay by the hour. Often they combine this with the fact it should be available on multiple locations and countries. Is this new? No, it is also a combination of old and recent developments.

  • I see it as a way for providers to ripoff potential customers ( You yourself are guilty of this Rens charging excess pricing for SLA)

  • RensRens Member
    edited November 2011

    @DanielM: SLA has nothing to do with Cloud, we also have SLA's for dedicated servers and many other services. Please keep the discussion about cloud in general and not about our services. LET visitors can make up their own mind about what it means for them and where they want to buy services.

    Could you please elaborate on the ripoff part?

  • To me, anything that's a true cloud is going to consist of at least 2 datacenters. If one goes down, the other picks up the slack. Clouds in just one datacenter are going to fail with no real fallback.

  • @Rens said: SLA has nothing to do with Cloud, we also have SLA's for dedicated servers and many other services.

    its a rip-off extra though..

  • I can tell you from using the Amazon S3 download service, that there are times when you are downloading a file from the "S3 cloud" and the download freezes, when you come back (on a new socket) and ask for the file again you get resolution to a new IP address. I've seen this happen sometimes a couple of times a day.

    So the "cloud" doesn't prevent a failed download, it just provides server fallback when the server you were assigned goes down (for whatever reason).

    That's better than only one server, as you can open a new connection to the newly resolved server and still get your data, but anyone that tells you that having files on the cloud means you'll never get an error doesn't understand how distributed servers work.

  • The idea of "cloud computing" is quite old but hardware and web (and mobile) technologies today are more affordable and more flexible to handle "cloud" compared to a decade ago. I think it's a matter of convenience why cloud technology costs more. Plus everyone is just so into innovations and new terminologies, and that servers riding on the popularity bandwagon helps increase the value of the product, which in turn increases its price (for awhile). Wait until the some marketing firm breaks away with the idea of "green" cloud computing, then you'll probably see a dollar more on the technology.

    As for saying VPS is dead, is just ironic. I think the idea of having a VPS is more on the level of control and management of a technology (hardware, hosting, bandwidth, security, etc), as well as the cost, more than anything else.

    Bayanihan.net - Create Your Domain and Hosting Reseller Business Today!

  • When you think about it, where does the term "cloud" come from? From those network topology diagram I believe, to represent the Internet, or "the network you don't care/don't want to know about". Cloud is a concept pretty much from the end's perspective. For example,

    • You are reading an email from Gmail. You might connect to a web server on mail.google.com, but how the mails are stored, indexed, forwarded, archived, etc -- you have no idea and don't care about.

    • You are downloading a file from Amazon S3 over CloudFront. Geo DNS gives you an end point of CDN, where your HTTP transaction starts. However how the CDN get the original data from S3, how and where that file was stored and backed up onto a physical hardware -- you have no idea and don't care about.

    When it comes to VPS. Take EC2 for example, with an API you can programmatically instantiate a virtual server with specific size somewhere, instantly. You can even get it to bootup with a specific image from S3 to perform a designated task. You can then turn that VPS off when the task is done, and you are only charged for the time your VPS is instantiated, rounded up to the hour. No human intervention. Everything automated. Virtual servers and their processing powers are just utility, and most of the time you don't need to care about the network topology, routing, location of the servers, replacing hardware etc. You have no idea what usually gets inside, and you don't really care about it anyway.

    Most low end VPS providers are still working towards that. At least none of them allow me to fire up 200 instances to do number crunching for 12 hours at the same time, and shut all of them down, yet. But still, the virtual servers I got is just an IP address on the Internet where I can connect to. I have no idea where it really is on the rack.

    I guess the marketing term "cloud computing" is mainly to sell to the enterprise, who traditionally would rack up a server room for all their internal needs + paying network engineers, system admins, etc. I worked with this kind of companies before, where a team of op guys running between internal server rooms and data centers, racking up servers, making sure dead hard drives are replaced, etc. 300-400 Dell servers in my case (lucky I was a software dev and no need to do any of these crap). "Cloud Computing" gives the IT/IS department the dream of firing half of their IT/IS staffs and pay only the resources they need (when you know how much server under-utilisation there is in a corporate environment).

    I guess it's just not very relevant to those of us who sign up VPS for less than $7/month to run our precious Minecraft servers...

    Blog at LowEndBox.com.

  • @LowEndAdmin said: I guess it's just not very relevant to those of us who sign up VPS for less than $7/month to run our precious Minecraft servers...

    i have yet to try minecraft..

  • That's a nice way to put it, LEA. Good insight as always. Regarding your point on the IT/IS workforce "slash-downs" that is one thing that we're going to be seeing more and more often as technology marches forward. The internet is a double-edged sword for software engineers and IT/IS people everywhere, especially with the rise of cheaper outsource IT manpower and server hardware technologies from countries like Japan, China, Singapore, South Korea, Saudi Arabia as well as India.

    In short, let's not worry about VPS and Cloud, because as long as businesses can get money from them, they're going to stay around for a very long time. As IT/IS people, we may need to worry how to stay relevant.

    Bayanihan.net - Create Your Domain and Hosting Reseller Business Today!

  • @DanielM said: i have yet to try minecraft

    Neither have I. Just trying to point out that the average Minecraft-playing LowEndBox'ers probably won't care about how cloud is being marketed in the enterprise world :)

    @Paul said: As IT/IS people, we may need to worry how to stay relevant

    Indeed. I am a software guy so it's completely different. Many webhosting companies have only just transit from doing just cPanel shared hosting to SolusVM OpenVZ hosting. This business is also something a lot of teens can easily get into. However the IT guys here should step ahead and think a bit more.

    The past threads have asked about career choices, getting into university, etc. And people might need to understand that the bulk of money is actually NOT in public-facing shared/VPS hosting catered for soccer moms. Enterprise projects in big corporations. Government projects. Those are big mammoths moving slowly but got lots of funding (at least won't argue with you over $10 PayPal transactions). IT/IS is a "cost" to them and with a good strategy, many of them would be willing to spend tens of $mil so they can save hundreds of $mil for the next 10 years.

    Good luck guys! Virtualization and cloud is where the $$$ is at the moment so don't diss it too quickly (or at least just keep it to yourself and on LowEndTalk :)

    Blog at LowEndBox.com.

  • vivithemagevivithemage Member, Provider

    That's a rather long video with horrible audio, can anyone cliffnote it?

    www.madgenius.com - Web Hosting, VPS, Dedicated Servers, Colocation, and Hosting Solutions since 1998

  • The man's voice is terrifying :)

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