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INIZ Review: Worst Support, Passive Aggressive against their customers. Warning
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INIZ Review: Worst Support, Passive Aggressive against their customers. Warning

xshanezuoxshanezuo Member
edited December 2015 in Reviews

I ordered a VPS for the first time through INIZ because they had special offer on this site. They marked me as fraudulent and cancelled my order. I tried explaining to them that I was new to this server hosting stuff, but nah, algorithm determined I am fraudulent.

So, I check my paypal account two months later and they have been charging me monthly even though THEY cancelled my service.

Here's the Problem: I open two disputes against them on Paypal, and instead of communicating with me, they decide to escalate the case!

Here is the comments on the case:

2/21/2015 10:32 PST - PayPal: Seller escalated this dispute to a Claim.

12/21/2015 10:32 PST - Seller: Client was provided the web hosting service and has exceeded the refund term listed here of first 7 days of service (here 9th Nov): https://iniz.com/terms.html. Client paid on 9th Nov 2015 and renewed hosting service again on 9th Dec 2015. Over a month has passed since initial payment and over 7 days of 2nd payment. This confirms client did receive service and is disputing for no reason and should be declined.

12/21/2015 10:16 PST - Buyer: order a vps service for from iniz, and they marked my account as fraudulent for some reason. They ban me for some reason and they have been charging me for the last few months. I demand a refund. Essentially, they have been charging me for a service they did not provide.

It's extremely offensive that they say that I am disputing for no reason, and I take it as an insult to my character. At this point, I'm not even mad about the money, but about the customer service.

PROOF that they could not have possible provided me service:

Thanked by 1rokok
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Comments

  • FrecyboyFrecyboy Member
    edited December 2015

    I guess @Patrick isn't active here anymore.

    Why didn't yo looked for reviews before buying from them? Any chance you had a paypal subscription ongoing? That must be the case, you should cancel a subscription after you get banned, else they're still able to charge you....

    http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/63572/iniz-nightmare-stay-well-away-from-these-jokers/p1

  • People say that it's always the customer's fault, but how can Iniz not notice they are just getting paid randomly for non existent invoices?

    Thanked by 1risharde
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited December 2015

    @linuxthefish said:
    People say that it's always the customer's fault, but how can Iniz not notice they are just getting paid randomly for non existent invoices?

    Easy to not notice unless you have a dedicated accountant or under 100 customers, but whmcs does interact with PayPal subscriptions now so it's no longer difficult to see when they've done that.

  • Ban expires 2020 x_x

  • @rokok said:
    Ban expires 2020 x_x

    Thats only 5 Years away, at least its not a permanent ban :D

  • ktkt Member, Host Rep
    edited December 2015

    OP from what I can see opened a chargeback on the subscription payment and the initial payment, as a result we closed the account and replied to PayPal accordingly. I don't believe there is more to add there.

    Unfortunately that was bad planning on my part due to my personal circumstances which led to the unacceptable delay, the issues were eventually resolved for those affected clients along with compensation.

    rokok said: Ban expires 2020 x_x

    I believe that would be the default date set by WHMCS when you click ban ip from the orders page.

    jarland said: Easy to not notice unless you have a dedicated accountant or under 100 customers, but whmcs does interact with PayPal subscriptions now so it's no longer difficult to see when they've done that.

    This was not enabled by default during the v6 upgrade, it has however since been enabled on our end.

    We do eventually take note of all credits that are added to client accounts which are added to old invoice due to subscription payment as part of our monthly bookkeeping.

    I guess this would be also be a good time to post a update on INIZ.

    We're still very much "alive" however I am aware we have not made any recent offers and have been quiet on the front end but happily operating well undoubtedly a a few issues have arose and have been swiftly resolved but overall we continue to maintain a reliable service to all our clients, I believe we still maintain a high ratio of clients from this community and hope to continue to grow as we are now.

    Should anyone have any outstanding queries you may contact me via PM or the INIZ client area.

  • jarland said: Easy to not notice unless you have a dedicated accountant

    I wonder how easy it would be to integrate PayPal and WHMCS's data (odbc & MySQL works for WHMCS) into some accounting software or database application. Could be a fun project!

    Thanked by 1switsys
  • Awmusic12635Awmusic12635 Member, Host Rep
    edited December 2015

    Paypal billing agreements, in my opinion, are the easiest way to avoid issues like this. Whmcs charges the client's paypal through the billing agreement and then whenever a cancellation request is submitted or order is canceled the system simply no longer charges the client.

    It has worked out quite well for us. No longer having to deal with the mess that is subscriptions.

  • Zeniva said: OP from what I can see opened a chargeback on the subscription payment and the initial payment, as a result we closed the account and replied to PayPal accordingly. I don't believe there is more to add there.

    So.. you are saying OP had an active server with iniz and was not rejected as a customer entirely from the start, but charged anyway?

    Thanked by 1doghouch
  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited December 2015

    Zeniva said: OP from what I can see opened a chargeback on the subscription payment and the initial payment, as a result we closed the account and replied to PayPal accordingly. I don't believe there is more to add there.

    First, OP said he or she opened dispute, not chargeback. Are you saying OP is lying about the dispute and actually did chargeback with credit card company?

    Second, OP said he or she never received the server because the order was deemed fraudulent. Can you clarify whether you're saying OP is lying about that as well, and was actually provided service for the payments that were disputed / chargebacked?

    That should make it clear what OP is saying and what you are saying.

    Also, does WHMCS finally automatically cancel subscriptions when the order is closed? I never could see the logic in purchasing from companies that refused to refund when their own billing system failed to stop the payments (almost certainly illegal; you can't just advertise a subscription option and then fail to manage it properly; it's hilarious when the companies start bashing the customers when the customers chargeback these fraudulent charges though), but hopefully that era is coming to a close.

    Thanked by 4jar Nyr risharde MikePT
  • ktkt Member, Host Rep
    edited December 2015

    OP purchased a service and was activated instantly, all orders are reviewed by us and was contacted to provide ID due to mismatch in details and PP name. No response was made and order was refunded. A dispute was made and we replied accordingly and then was escalated, we banned the IP from future orders from WHMCS.

    perennate said: I never could see the logic in purchasing from companies that refused to refund when their own billing system failed to stop the payments (almost certainly illegal; you can't just advertise a subscription option and then fail to manage it properly; it's hilarious when the companies start bashing the customers when the customers chargeback these fraudulent charges though), but hopefully that era is coming to a close.

    Yes they do finally if the option is enabled manually. We do not enforce subscriptions, it is a clients choice as to whether they want to action a subscription or a one time payment. All cancellation emails state if they have started a subscription they should check and cancel it, it is written pretty clearly within the email. This was prior to the automation and still exists after should for some reason fail.

    I am not going to argue over the legality of self actioned subscriptions but we have seen the subscription issue before and PayPal most certainly did not agree with the buyer when they failed to cancel the subscription and issued a dispute/chargeback. In 99% of cases, clients were happy with the account credit which was automatically added on cancelled services.

    Thanked by 1perennate
  • @Zeniva said:
    I am not going to argue over the legality of self actioned subscriptions but we have seen the subscription issue before and PayPal most certainly did not agree with the buyer when they failed to cancel the subscription and issued a dispute/chargeback. In 99% of cases, clients were happy with the account credit which was automatically added on cancelled services.

    You should still refund though. Never mind PayPal, you're running a business. Act like it. It's beyond me why companies would deny a refund for services not delivered. So yeah, it's OPs fault for not cancelling the subscription. Who cares. Handling things like this in a good manner is what could set you apart from some of the other hosts around here. However, you choose not to. That's why you're on my list of mediocre hosts. Serverwise you're just OK but support and servicewise it's just terrible.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited December 2015

    Zeniva said: We do not enforce subscriptions, it is a clients choice as to whether they want to action a subscription or a one time payment.

    Zeniva said: In 99% of cases, clients were happy with the account credit which was automatically added on cancelled services.

    Hm, fair enough :). Happy to hear that WHMCS fixed this.

    On topic, it sounds like OP got refund for the cancelled initial order due to fraud check, but the subscription was still active so payments continued (and were later disputed)? If that is the case, there is a discrepancy in your initial response to the Paypal dispute (or at least what OP claimed was your response), where you said the service was active and renewed seven days prior. I think that is the main thing OP is complaining about. So ideally Iniz will refund OP, apologize for mistake on dispute, and everyone will be happy (again, assuming the first sentence is the case).

    Thanked by 1MikePT
  • This^^

  • @xshanezuo said:
    This^^

  • xshanezuoxshanezuo Member
    edited December 2015

    @Zeniva said:
    OP from what I can see opened a chargeback on the subscription payment and the initial payment, as a result we closed the account and replied to PayPal accordingly. I don't believe there is more to add there.

    Should anyone have any outstanding queries you may contact me via PM or the INIZ client area.

    No chargeback on initial payment, just a dispute on two recurring payments since first one was refunded when my account was marked as "fraud"

  • xshanezuoxshanezuo Member
    edited December 2015

    @Zeniva said:
    OP purchased a service and was activated instantly, all orders are reviewed by us and was contacted to provide ID due to mismatch in details and PP name. No response was made and order was refunded. A dispute was made and we replied accordingly and then was escalated, we banned the IP from future orders from WHMCS.

    I am not going to argue over the legality of self actioned subscriptions but we have seen the subscription issue before and PayPal most certainly did not agree with the buyer when they failed to cancel the subscription and issued a dispute/chargeback. In 99% of cases, clients were happy with the account credit which was automatically added on cancelled services.

    Self-actioned subscription implies that i was provided a service. lol.

    If i forgot to cancel a spotify subscription that is totally understandable, problem on my end. The service was provided to me. Period.

    Here you charged me for a service that you could not have possibly provided.

    Furthermore, I did not respond to request for name and address because
    a. I failed to see it in my email, I checked now and it is there.
    b. I wasn't interested to get this resolved as I was in a hurry to get server up.(Quickly moved to OVH)

    I dont understand why INIZ so readily distorts the reality to keep $12 dollars. In the paypal comments you can see that they clearly state "This confirms client did receive service and is disputing for no reason and should be declined." A blatant lie.

  • The way @Zeniva responded here already tells you that he is trying to talk him out of refunding the subscription money.

    OP is banned so he won't be able to use the "credit".

    Don't be greedy and refund him already.

  • namhuynamhuy Member
    edited December 2015

    usually when a host is being sold, its services become worst and worst :(

  • Dear providers with their own rules, please remember the main thing:

    Your clients wallet is not your wallet. If you can't solve localy without paypal or lowendtalk conflicts -> get out from the busienss, and save your time, and your clients time and nervous.

    Don't make angry your clients. Because one really angry and smart client, after a relationship with him as with shit, can totally destroy your business.

    And last, if you got conflict with your client, try to open ticket with client, and in next manner to solve a problem by next way:

    "Dear client, you have 24 hours after confirmation from your side to move out from our services. We will chargeback your unused money and credits. We are very sorry that it happened in our dealings with you. We appologize, but #rule_number is broken. Please remember, you have subscription to our services, and you must shutdown them to avoid unauthorized payments to us."
    

    And after the guy totally receive his money back, and confirm this acount -> close account and ban him. The simple few words with clients can resolve a lot of problems.
    But many of you dear providers think like you are gods here, and all of your clients is shit.

    Please treat your customer with respect and understanding that he had the problem. And try to think in positive way. Sure, you are all have a lot of people who do a problems, but stop to think in this paranoiac manner, and try to feel what your clients feeling when they got this surprises from your side. And what you will do? Ignore it? I do not think so.

  • Zeniva said: In 99% of cases, clients were happy with the account credit which was automatically added on cancelled services.

    I don't imagine a client would be happy to have account credit on a banned account.

  • @lbft said:
    I don't imagine a client would be happy to have account credit on a banned account.

    They can access it in 2020 though.

  • INIZ is on my never buy list.

  • @0xdragon said:
    INIZ is on my never buy list.

    I never had issues when Patrick was at the helm, I've had a few outages this year (2015) once Zeniva took over and support is useless but the box overall performs quite well to tell you the truth.

  • @ATHK said:
    I never had issues when Patrick was at the helm, I've had a few outages this year (2015) once Zeniva took over and support is useless but the box overall performs quite well to tell you the truth.

    I take support into account and I very much like to cherry pick my providers.

  • @0xdragon said:

    Of course, wasn't recommending them rather stating that it's gone a bit downhill compared to the Patrick was running the show.

    Thanked by 1DeletedUser
  • NyrNyr Community Contributor, Veteran

    xshanezuo said: Client paid on 9th Nov 2015 and renewed hosting service again on 9th Dec 2015. Over a month has passed since initial payment and over 7 days of 2nd payment. This confirms client did receive service and is disputing for no reason and should be declined.

    This is INIZ blatantly lying to PayPal since the service wasn't provided nor voluntarily renewed.

    They also denied a refund for a service which was never provided so that's nearly scamming in my book.

    Thanked by 2Peroni jar
  • Yes, INIZ became, for lack of better description, scummy when it was sold to some Indian teenager. I would never purchase from INIZ; in fact, I cancelled mine upon hearing the news of the sale when that was still in the rough stages..

    Thanked by 1switsys
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