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email from Holderhost a.k.a. Hostwinds
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email from Holderhost a.k.a. Hostwinds

Hello xxx,

We would like to welcome you to the Hostwinds family!

You are receiving this message, as you were previously a customer of Holderhost, which Hostwinds has acquired.

We are going to ensure your transition to our services goes as smooth as possible. Your login details to your accounts will all remain the same, only your IP address will be changed.

You will receive a ticket within the next few days stating that we have begun your migration process to our Hostwinds Enterprise Servers.


As Hostwinds offerings, differ from that of Holderhost, we have matched you with a comparable service within Hostwinds.

We understand that there may be a pricing difference; as such we have extended you an offering of 25% off recurring for life on the product.

You presently have the following with Holderhost - LEB Special #3


We have paired your service with the following service -

Budget Level 4
CPU 2 core
Ram 4 GB
Disk Space 100GB

This product can be viewed at the following page -
https://xxx

The cost to you will be $22.88 per month, with your next due date being 1 month after the date your service is currently due. You can request your billing cycle to be changed to either quarterly, semi-annually or annually, simply request this in a ticket with your Hostwinds account.

.... the "service" they "paired me with" is a downgrade vs existing service. I suppose one could argue that the IP change alone could be deemed a change in contract terms.

I mailed them back w/ a refusal of the contractual changes.

Oh, that $22.88 per month would be ~78% increase in price over what I've been paying.

Comments

  • If that price is not working, why don't you go with Ramnode, BuyVM or any other reputed low end provider.

  • Normally, you should be compensated (or at least get upgraded for FREE and keep paying the same price as before) ! I don't know why they would buy a company knowing their plans and their clients needs (segment) and intentionally force them to pay more for something they didn't signup for. These hosting companies don't even care about the customers of the companies they buy while it's the most important element of the acquisition, they just treat them like a scraped email list.

    A dreb l7did ma7édou skhoun ! - Flan | تناكت، ليت راحت في تبي

  • Hostwinds 'acquired' BurstNet's VPS business and managed to screw that up royally, so this doesn't really surprise me.

  • To me looks like they brought the company just for the names/clients expecting to lose xx% but to keep some..

    Not really the best way to go about it.., havent even stated what the process is if your not happy with the increase and wish to cancel on their "cut over" date.

  • So far I think it is best to continue the original contract

    The meaning of life lies in exploring the unknown forever...✅

  • @MarkTurner said:
    Hostwinds 'acquired' BurstNet's VPS business and managed to screw that up royally, so this doesn't really surprise me.

    AND this says the person from company called "yomura" which also acquired some VPS businesses and then VANISHED! Hahaha.

    Trying to be positive and friendly :)

  • Been with Holder about a year, great support and service, very bummed about the new plan and host, so will be moving on, cPanel transfer tool makes this easy :)

  • zevuszevus Member
    edited November 2015

    I had a $32 balance w/ Holderhost, I'm assuming Holderhost would be the one responsible for refunding that... as it was money that wasn't even being used towards any service.

    am I correct on that? (they didn't file bankruptcy or anything, did they? all I see is that they sold out to a diff company)

    however, can't submit any ticket on the holderhost site, as it gives an error

  • A little offtopic but wasn't HostWinds a BlackHatWorld enterprise that specialized in providing SEO-optimized hosting services or am I going crazy?

  • Thanked by 1sambling
  • RolterRolter Member
    edited November 2015

    @Gunter said:
    A little offtopic but wasn't HostWinds a BlackHatWorld enterprise that specialized in providing SEO-optimized hosting services or am I going crazy?

    ...

    My guess is , they wanted to make use of the BHW userbase and turn them into customers.

    Thanked by 1MikePT
  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @Rolter said:
    My guess is , they wanted to make use of the BHW userbase and turn them into customers.

    That would explain the insane amount of spam.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 2netomx doghouch
    BuyVM - Free DirectAdmin, Softaculous, & Blesta! / Anycast Support! / Windows 2008, 2012, & 2016! / Unmetered Bandwidth!
    BuyShared - Shared & Reseller Hosting / cPanel + Softaculous + CloudLinux / Pure SSD! / Free Dedicated IP Address
  • HostwindsHostwinds Member
    edited November 2015

    Hey, my name is Peter Holden, and I am the CEO of Hostwinds. I wanted to pop into this thread and clear some things up.

    1) We did not "acquire" BurstNET, We provided their customers a safe haven after the company announced they were going out of business. We migrated as many clients as we could before their servers were shut offline. We purchased the BurstNET domain name in a separate transaction.

    2) Hostwinds is in no way owned by BHW, or the owners of BHW. We are two different companies, and in no way affiliated.

    3) @Francisco We absolutely used to have spam issues with our network, however, since implementing mailchannels, we have worked hard and cleaned up our network, you can read about us here http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/08/like-cutting-off-a-limb-to-save-the-body/

    4) I see a lot of people here are worried about their service being cancelled before their contract is up. We want to assure everything that you will be able to fully utilize the service at the old pricing, until the end of your billing cycle. We will being finishing out all contract's under the old pricing. I think you will all be impressed with the level of service and support you receive from Hostwinds. We have 24/7 US based support, you may call us at any time day or night, and talk to a technician for help with any issues you may have. You can also open a live chat, or put in a ticket and get a response in under 5 minutes. We are a customer centered organization, and we always push to make our clients happy.

    I truly can relate with many of you who are distraught over the price increase, however, I want to work together to make this a successful transition for everyone involved. The pricing that Holderhost was offering previously was not sustainable, the company was not profitable, nor was it a sustainable long term business plan. The company was running all of their nodes with Software RAID0. The company was also not taking any backups of it's client's data.(With Hostwinds we backup your Data every night, and retain 10 days worth of copies. We also run all of our nodes with Hardware RAID10, and use only Western Digital RE Drives). The largest discount that Hostwinds has ever offered to any of it's client's was 50% lifetime recurring discount for Black Friday. I am going to offer this same discount to all current customers of Holderhost. I hope this helps out. We want to make this a great transition for everyone to a truly enterprise company, running enterprise Hardware. We currently employ a staff of over 20, and are not going anywhere. We look forward to working with all of you for a long time to come.

  • @Hostwinds said:
    The largest discount that Hostwinds has ever offered to any of it's client's was 50% lifetime recurring discount for Black Friday. I am going to offer this same discount to all current customers of Holderhost. I hope this helps out. We want to make this a great transition for everyone to a truly enterprise company, running enterprise Hardware.

    If it brings the pricing close to what "Holderhost" was offering , i guess you will be getting more business from LET users.

  • Our Budget Level 1 VPS @50% off is only $3.75 a month, and you get 1Gb of RAM with that

    This Black Friday, we are also trying a short term (3 month) discount of 80% off to jump start our Seattle location. So you can get some VPS's for under a dollar.

    We own all of our own Hardware, as well as our own Data Center in Seattle. We also include a /64 IPV6 by default on all of our VPS's

  • GunterGunter Member
    edited November 2015

    Hostwinds is in no way owned by BHW, or the owners of BHW. We are two different companies, and in no way affiliated.

    You avoided the question. I meant that the large majority of your userbase comes from BHW. You are most certainly affiliated, you provided hosting and partnered support to BHW.

  • @Gunter said:
    You avoided the question. I meant that the large majority of your userbase comes from BHW. You are most certainly affiliated, you provided hosting and partnered support to BHW.

    We have over 50,000 active users, and a very small portion of that (less than 1%) comes from BHW. We do provide hosting to members of BHW, in the same way we provide hosting to members of webhostingtalk, warrior forum, and many other online communities. We do not provide hosting to BHW, and we do not support their users any differently that we support users from any other forum out there.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    Hostwinds said: we have worked hard and cleaned up our network, you can read about us here http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/08/like-cutting-off-a-limb-to-save-the-body/

    That was an interesting read, thanks.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    Hostwinds said: 3) @Francisco We absolutely used to have spam issues with our network, however, since implementing mailchannels, we have worked hard and cleaned up our network, you can read about us here http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/08/like-cutting-off-a-limb-to-save-the-body/

    Keep it up.

    Francisco

    BuyVM - Free DirectAdmin, Softaculous, & Blesta! / Anycast Support! / Windows 2008, 2012, & 2016! / Unmetered Bandwidth!
    BuyShared - Shared & Reseller Hosting / cPanel + Softaculous + CloudLinux / Pure SSD! / Free Dedicated IP Address
  • GunterGunter Member
    edited November 2015

    @Hostwinds said:

    Yes, because you advertised at BHW, the same way that some skiddie hosts have HF customers because they advertise at HackForums.

  • samblingsambling Member
    edited November 2015

    Thanks for tagging @bersy.

    We did sell holderhost.com, in it's entirety (including all clients, domains, servers, agreements with providers and the associated PayPal account), to HostWinds. I'm pleased that the business was sold to someone with experience in the industry.

    beachcitiespc said: Been with Holder about a year, great support and service, very bummed about the new plan and host, so will be moving on, cPanel transfer tool makes this easy :)

    I'm really glad you were happy with the service while we ran the business. We always tried for no drama, top service and support. Perhaps that worked against us, I don't know.

    Hostwinds said: The pricing that Holderhost was offering previously was not sustainable, the company was not profitable, nor was it a sustainable long term business plan.

    Peter is essentially correct here. Effectively we ran the business so that revenue = expenses. The nodes themselves were profitable (the ones which were full up) but added overheads (e.g. a 24/7 support team) and other costs meant that we did not withdraw anything from the business for the 3+ years of running it. The price increase is, therefore, justified.

    Hostwinds said: The company was running all of their nodes with Software RAID0. The company was also not taking any backups of it's client's data.

    We ran off Software RAID10 or RAID1 on all nodes. All nodes were backed up weekly. Our shared server was hosted with Wable with ~17GB RAM and clients were backed up daily using cPProtect.


    holderhost.com was a very, very small business but a great learning opportunity for myself and Plato. I'm sure that Peter and the team and HostWinds will satisfy clients of holderhost with a great service.

    I'd like to thank all the fantastic clients we had. Some of the compliments we received in support tickets really made my day. <3

    https://o0.nz - A free and fast image host. Powered by a Bunny and a Pony!

  • zevuszevus Member
    edited November 2015

    Question wasn't answered in regard to $32 balance at holderhost,

    as time is a factor here, I'll have to initiate a chargeback on Paypal sometime soon (and, yes, this is covered by paypal policy, unlike the already running VPS). I know that charges an extra $25 fee (or it used to be $25, a year or two ago), so I guess I'll make an additional post about it here, as well as the CSR ticket I created.

    in short: holderhost owes me $32, hostwinds has some services I'd like to cancel, and get my money back on, unless they've decided not to downgrade my existing service

  • @Francisco said:
    Francisco

    Their IP ranges are dirty as hell. I just love getting SEO "enhancing" and "cleaning" emails ._.

  • @Hostwinds are you aware half of hackforums currently spoofs out of your network?

    300k IPs needed for only 50k clients?
    https://ipinfo.io/AS54290

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider
    edited November 2015

    @apollo15 said:
    Hostwinds are you aware half of hackforums currently spoofs out of your network?

    300k IPs needed for only 50k clients?
    https://ipinfo.io/AS54290

    well, figure a /29 per dedicated and you hit 300k easy. They took over Burstnets VPS cancer which got 2 IP's each I think.

    Doesn't justify the spoofing, though.

    @doghouch said:
    Their IP ranges are dirty as hell. I just love getting SEO "enhancing" and "cleaning" emails ._.

    I have no doubt, they were top 5 on senderbase for a good while. Those spots are now held for Nugget supporters, though.

    Francisco

    BuyVM - Free DirectAdmin, Softaculous, & Blesta! / Anycast Support! / Windows 2008, 2012, & 2016! / Unmetered Bandwidth!
    BuyShared - Shared & Reseller Hosting / cPanel + Softaculous + CloudLinux / Pure SSD! / Free Dedicated IP Address
  • samblingsambling Member
    edited November 2015

    zevus said: Question wasn't answered in regard to $32 balance at holderhost,

    as time is a factor here, I'll have to initiate a chargeback on Paypal sometime soon (and, yes, this is covered by paypal policy, unlike the already running VPS). I know that charges an extra $25 fee (or it used to be $25, a year or two ago), so I guess I'll make an additional post about it here, as well as the CSR ticket I created.

    in short: holderhost owes me $32, hostwinds has some services I'd like to cancel, and get my money back on, unless they've decided not to downgrade my existing service

    Your credit balance should have been transferred to HostWinds to be used on future invoices. I'm sure Peter can sort you out. Just flick him a message. =)

    I understand that you are upset above the price rise. I see in the OP you were on LEB Special #3 which was on a VolumeDrive/ Quadix node. The network quality at HostWinds should be 1000x better. We did have a number of random network outages at VolumeDrive. Further to this, HostWinds have a fulltime dedicated team behind it. We could never devote that time.

    https://o0.nz - A free and fast image host. Powered by a Bunny and a Pony!

  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited November 2015

    @Francisco said:
    Francisco

    Well I wish it was a /29... more like 300 emails/minute from like /24s (it was around 30% HostWinds, was also spoofed as if the all spam were sent my me)... Fortunately, I'm pretty sure that most of my clients don't use VPNs through HostWinds, nor legitimate mail servers, so I just straight out blocked all AS54290's ranges.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @doghouch said:

    That's the solution more than a few people have been doing. I got a few large mailservers on us and they blacklist CC, Psychz, Ubiquity, VolumeDrive, and soon Quadranet, because their systems spend countless cycles just chewing the spam up.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1vRozenSch00n
    BuyVM - Free DirectAdmin, Softaculous, & Blesta! / Anycast Support! / Windows 2008, 2012, & 2016! / Unmetered Bandwidth!
    BuyShared - Shared & Reseller Hosting / cPanel + Softaculous + CloudLinux / Pure SSD! / Free Dedicated IP Address
  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited November 2015

    @Francisco said:
    Francisco

    Not chewing, absorbing. QN was great, then it got worse, and just plain downhill from there.

    P.S: I removed CC from the block as only <1% of the spam were coming from there.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @doghouch said:
    Not chewing, absorbing. QN was great, then it got worse, and just plain downhill from there.

    The positive is with ARIN being out, spamhaus is becoming a lot more strict on repeat offenders. A lot of innocent people are going to get smacked, but maybe they'll think twice selling that /20 to someone when it ends up with all your ranges listed.

    As always though, every spam friendly host/person goes on about how spamhaus is a corrupt organization out to ruin the internet and how there needs to be laws to stop such things. The shack of a datacenter I worked for in Portland would have the exact same rants....because one of the owners had a guy leasing a /21 for spam and he ran out of clean space to rotate to them.

    Francisco

    BuyVM - Free DirectAdmin, Softaculous, & Blesta! / Anycast Support! / Windows 2008, 2012, & 2016! / Unmetered Bandwidth!
    BuyShared - Shared & Reseller Hosting / cPanel + Softaculous + CloudLinux / Pure SSD! / Free Dedicated IP Address
  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited November 2015

    @Francisco said:
    ARIN being out

    Still, ARIN being out made IP prices hike... yet again.

    (btw, it would be nice to have some snow falling down in Stallion... would make it more pleasant for the holiday season)

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    Francisco said: The positive is with ARIN being out, spamhaus is becoming a lot more strict on repeat offenders. A lot of innocent people are going to get smacked, but maybe they'll think twice selling that /20 to someone when it ends up with all your ranges listed.

    SWIP range, tell Spamhaus to fuck off, why would it be my problem what a SWIPed customer does with an IP network he owns (read: not rent)?

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider
    edited November 2015

    @William said:

    I guess that ties their hands, no way they could escalate the case to force the hand of DC.... >_>

    I'm guessing you're talking mostly about if you're in the RIPE region and you're simply a broker?

    Francisco

    BuyVM - Free DirectAdmin, Softaculous, & Blesta! / Anycast Support! / Windows 2008, 2012, & 2016! / Unmetered Bandwidth!
    BuyShared - Shared & Reseller Hosting / cPanel + Softaculous + CloudLinux / Pure SSD! / Free Dedicated IP Address
  • @William said:
    spamhaus

    Good luck trying to contact a "SpamHaus Support Representative." They f*cked my beautiful /24 and it took 14 months for the removal ._.

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    Francisco said: I guess that ties their hands, no way they could escalate the case to force the hand of DC.... >_>

    I'm guessing you're talking mostly about if you're in the RIPE region and you're simply a broker?

    For example, yes.

    Also, from what i've seen in the last weeks/months, SH is now just a revenge platform anyway that tries to play "internet super hero":

    Case one, an ISP had some listings which took weeks to be removed after SH decided to ignore the SWIP/abuse-c - which was not just SWIP but the actual RIPE LIR owner - and sent abuse to ASN that announces it (scraped from WHOIS, likely not even an abuse email address) which was not replied to and they escalated to a /24+.

    Now, after removal, they found someone else spamming on the same ASN - which is a large DC and said ISP is just a customer of - and guess who they listed? Right, that ISP, not the DC or the owner as per SWIP - They cherry picked the last listed ISP in the same DC and just attributed a /24 from a whole other LIR, with whole other SWIP to them just due to using the same ASN... the abuse was never sent to the IP block owner and they will "escalate" it to this ISPs prefixes at one point without even seeing that this ISP has simply absolutely nothing to do with it...

    Other case - ISP rents out /23 to legitimate customer (verified and shit, even have passport), customer starts spamming after a week - SH lists block and sends abuse, SWIP is removed and prefix nulled/removed from BGP within a few hours (not even 12). Ok, so far. Now contact SH to remove the listing - which gets ignored for 4+ weeks as "punishment" for customer choice while all other tickets from other listings/companies (verified!) are replied to within minutes-hours by senior SH staff...

    Last case for now.... what Fran meant:

    Carrier sells a /16 to ISP A - transfer via RIR, legacy. Transfer completed, RIR DB entry changed.

    ISP A splits this /16 into 4 /18 and sells them to 3 different companies (among them ISP B) - SWIP is changed at RIR while transfer is in progress. Space is transferred and all is good. ISP B sells (not rent) a /21 to a colo customer which is not RIR moved but SWIPed only. ISP B rents a /24 to an end-user which is also SWIPed. End-user sells VPS with /29 (non-SWIPed) to spammer, which gets a single IP listed.

    Simple, daily occurring, case - Now, who should be listed and escalated?

    Correct - imo - would be this:

    SWIP on IP (end-user) (/26 RIPE object, status legacy) - SWIP on /24 - SWIP on /21 - SWIP on /18 - ASN owner

    Done was around this:

    SWIP on /21 listed as owner, abuse sent to /18 owner (largest object in RIR DB, thus their scraper is broken), FWDd contact data of colo customer (as of SWIP) - SWIP on /24 listed, abuse sent to /21 owner (???) - SWIP on /26 listed, finally sent to correct owner...

    tl;dr i don't like SH much.

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