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VPS abuse and $0.1 million lawsuit
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VPS abuse and $0.1 million lawsuit

Hello,

i seek Your kind advice and opinion regarding classic abuse/fraud in web-hosting industry.

a) There is an US company who provide dedicated server to the customer from Germany.

b) The German customer using the server (one of its ARIN IPs) to provide shared web-hosting account to a customer from Nigeria.

c) The Nigerian customer send an email from his web-hosting account and trick some Italian company to send him 100 000 USD (example: international bank transfer from Italy to United Kingdom).

The Italian company then submit an lawsuit in Italy providing email headers of the communication with scammer and details of the transaction, details of the case.

I want to ask what is the probability that Italian company will get the money back from:

a) US server, IP provider

b) German web-hosting provider

c) Nigerian scammer

What are the ways to get money back and how such a legal process will/can run?

Thank you

InternetLifeForum.com - hosting, webmaster forum

«1

Comments

  • Anyone else not understand what he said?

    So pretty much, a US based company provided a server to a scammer, the scammer scammed, and someone sued the provider? or are they suing the scammer?

  • There are no realistic ways to get the money back. Forget about it.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • German web hosting won't have to pay for that, as well as the server provider.

  • get legal advise noww

    • do not prepay > 1 year and check for reviews/support
    • only use monthly from a provider operating < 1 year 🍆
  • I don't understand why you ask us here, when the first call should be a lawyer

  • NekkiNekki Moderator

    Eh? Surely if someone entices a business to pay money to them fraudulently, it's the the fraudster who's liable, not anyone else?

    Here lies Nekki. He loved massive amounts of storage, K-Pop and calling people cunts.

  • @Nekki said:
    Eh? Surely if someone entices a business to pay money to them fraudulently, it's the the fraudster who's liable, not anyone else?

    +1. This is like saying "someone driving a Ford ran me over so I'm going to sue Ford".

    Thanked by 1theroyalstudent
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    It's not really a $.1 million lawsuit, it's...(holds pinkie up to corner of mouth)...a $.0001 billion lawsuit.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • JonchunJonchun Member, Provider

    @ehab said:
    get legal advise noww

    Wow so helpful!!!

  • @Jonchun said:
    Wow so helpful!!!

    and wise.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider
    • do not prepay > 1 year and check for reviews/support
    • only use monthly from a provider operating < 1 year 🍆
  • JonchunJonchun Member, Provider

    @ehab said:
    and wise.

    Wow so smart!!!

    Thanked by 1doghouch
  • 2bb32bb3 Member
    edited November 2015

    Jonchun said: Wow so smart!!!

    Your answer in this thread as been both smart and helpful!!!

    @op: do some people send that much money to nigerian scammers? If so they probably have enough cash to go to nigeria, find the scammer and nicely ask the money back.

    couldn't the bank in UK be held liable for something?

    Thanked by 1netomx

    Gotta Love LowEndDrama

  • ehabehab Member
    edited November 2015

    sorry @postcd , ignore what i say 2 mr.Jon jonchun.

    @Jonchun said:

    du uwanna watch me dance

    Thanked by 1cassa
    • do not prepay > 1 year and check for reviews/support
    • only use monthly from a provider operating < 1 year 🍆
  • JonchunJonchun Member, Provider

    @2bb3 said:
    Your answer in this thread as been both smart and helpful!!!

    Following the LET way!

  • ricardoricardo Member
    edited November 2015

    Yeah, get a lawyer. Don't see how the scammed Italian company have any recourse, though. It's not like you could sue the postman/company for delivering a scam in a letter.

    What are the ways to get money back

    Go to Nigeria with a hammer? Kidding of course.

  • @Jonchun said:
    Following the LET way!

    You should only consider legal advice from competent/qualified people (lawyers maybe?) ... That's why getting some real "legal advice" is the best "advice".

    Thanked by 1teknolaiz

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  • Please call the Nigerian prince he will send you back a few millions...

    Thanked by 3Aga ATHK netomx

    I'm on vacation in Belize.

  • jarjar Provider
    edited November 2015

    How do you trick someone into paying $100,000? I mean, who doesn't have to jump through a few approval hoops to spend $100,000?

    Sounds like they learned a $100,000 lesson. Can't put a price tag on that, but if you were to try.... I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000.

    MagicSpam blackmails providers into buying their software, and ServerHub is a professional spam organization.

  • @Jar said:
    How do you trick someone into paying $100,000? I mean, who doesn't have to jump through a few approval hoops to spend $100,000?

    Sounds like they learned a $100,000 lesson. Can't put a price tag on that, but if you were to try.... I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000.

    Scammed 100k just using a shared hosting account Holy shit ......

    I'm glad that scammer didn't get a VPS there would be list of Scammed company's

    Thanked by 2jar netomx

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  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @Jar said:
    How do you trick someone into paying $100,000? I mean, who doesn't have to jump through a few approval hoops to spend $100,000?

    Sounds like they learned a $100,000 lesson. Can't put a price tag on that, but if you were to try.... I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000.

    $100k is nothing, talk to the Ubiquiti Networks guys, they got done in for $40,000,000.

    Francisco

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  • Holy shiz... Seriously ? Man, we need to file 2-3 forms to get even a $500 from our company.

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  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    There is no legal base to sue the web host or anyone in the chain except the scammer - The first host, as per German law, is NOT liable for anything done on the server/service as long as he took appropriate measures to stop it once known (i.e. abuse mail or court order was sent) and has the required customer data by German law (= nothing if paid in cash/BTC). It's like a creditcard - if stolen you only pay up to like 50EUR even if the thief spent much more. The US host/DC is not liable as the US has similar laws in place. The US host does not even need to cooperate and give out any customer data to an Italian court, this does not change liability either.

    The risk would be INSANE for any datacenter or end-user ISP without this exemptions from lawsuits (more in EU than in US, US iirc still allows a lot of non-criminal lawsuits while you can't even do that in EU), it is simply too easy to abuse the service - I would maybe compare it to sue the owner of a rented car because the renter borrowed it to someone that ran over some guy, obviously the driver (= nigerian) is liable, the original customer (= german) might be liable if he gave the car knowing this guy is not able to use it correctly and/or dangerous, the original owner (= US corp) has no liability at all.

    In the end ONLY the scammer is liable, depending on how it was paid it might be untraceable (Western union is mainly fake names and bribed WU staff, bank accounts in Dubai and alike are often opened with fake IDs, at least according to some SPIEGEL docus i saw) - Even if you manage to actually trace it it someone individual in Nigeria the law there works slow (if at all, de facto the government has no control over like 1/5th of the country, it is occupied by Boko Haram and others).

  • postcdpostcd Member
    edited November 2015

    thank you all.

    @William Your knowledge is really wide, thanks for sharing

    @Francisco What means "they got done in for $xxx"? My english is bad

    @Nekki

    "it's the the fraudster who's liable, not anyone else?"

    hosting provider usually have tools to monitor on what is happening on the server, but indeed some kind of abuse is probably really out of scope of monitoring and cant be proven that the activity is illegal without deep research

    InternetLifeForum.com - hosting, webmaster forum

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @postcd said:
    Francisco What means "they got done in for $xxx"? My english is bad

    They got scammed for $40 million dollars: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/08/tech-firm-ubiquiti-suffers-46m-cyberheist/

    BuyVM - Free DirectAdmin, Softaculous, & Blesta! / Anycast Support! / Windows 2008, 2012, & 2016! / Unmetered Bandwidth!
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  • NekkiNekki Moderator

    postcd said: hosting provider usually have tools to monitor on what is happening on the server, but indeed some kind of abuse is probably really out of scope of monitoring and cant be proven that the activity is illegal without deep research

    It's completely unrealistic to expect a provider to monitor to the degree that would have been necessary to be aware of what was occurring.

    Here lies Nekki. He loved massive amounts of storage, K-Pop and calling people cunts.

  • Thanked by 2ChrisMiller netomx
  • Nigerian scammers are pretty clever, or so it would seem. Who now days would fall for such a thing. Oh I know, freakin idiots.

    A senator fell for the old Nigerian hustle several times for millions a dolla sent by western union for a chance of a life time return.

    The silly old bastard lost it all, just like the guy in the thread above.

  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited November 2015

    @ricardo said:
    Yeah, get a lawyer. Don't see how the scammed Italian company have any recourse, though. It's not like you could sue the postman/company for delivering a scam in a letter.

    Go to Nigeria with a hammer? Kidding of course.

    Ew. Go to Nigeria with a phone displaying drama from LET on it. It will surely scare away the scammers as they just can't handle it

  • WebProjectWebProject Member, Provider

    cjd said: +1. This is like saying "someone driving a Ford ran me over so I'm going to sue Ford".

    In some situations the Ford will take responsibility, example: some parts had a manufacturer fault therefore the Ford is responsible.

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  • A friend of mine got lured to go to Nigeria 15 years ago on a deal related to black dollar. The scam involved several high rank officials, and my friend was lucky to be able to escape alive.

    Just think, how can they scam billions of dollars if they don't have sufficient knowledge of banking or support from their central bank?

    While Nigeria is currently ruled by many warlords, many of their high rank officials live in luxurious lifestyle abroad.

    Happy to be alive and kicking!

  • @vRozenSch00n said:
    A friend of mine got lured to go to Nigeria 15 years ago on a deal related to black dollar.

    Oh, that's a classic. A friend was recently involved and thankfully I saved them from the scam. It's just incredible that people are everyday falling for this.

    Thanked by 1vRozenSch00n
  • 2bb32bb3 Member
    edited November 2015

    vRozenSch00n said: Just think, how can they scam billions of dollars if they don't have sufficient knowledge of banking or support from their central bank?

    Didn't think nigerian scams were that big and involving so much money.
    I did see that as some poor guy trying to make enough money in a cybercafe to be able to feed his family, not as some kind of global industry built to profit the (already) rich there...

    Thanked by 1vRozenSch00n

    Gotta Love LowEndDrama

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider
    edited November 2015

    2bb3 said: I did see that as some poor guy trying to make enough money in a cybercafe to be able to feed his family, not as some kind of global industry built to profit the (already) rich there...

    It absolutely isn't "poor people trying to feed their family", this is organized crime for the purpose of getting richer. See also this page.

  • I would say the hosting company should have blocked high risk countries or asked ID verification for this countries.
    99% of clients from this countries either host phishing pages or ransomware or RAT servers or so on.

  • @2bb3 said:

    You mean like the poor pirates in Somalia? Having thousands of US dollars to buy AK47s, other weapons, cars and et cetera but not to feed their people?

    There is much more behind those Nigerian scams. It's all organzied.

    I'm on vacation in Belize.

  • erkinerkin Member
    edited November 2015

    Once the hosting company passes that scammers' ids to the court they won't face any problems, imo.

    0% chance of trolling in posts.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider

    RockBeltHOST said: 99% of clients from this countries either host phishing pages or ransomware or RAT servers or so on.

    What are you basing that statistic on?

  • Hidden_Refuge said: You mean like the poor pirates in Somalia? Having thousands of US dollars to buy AK47s, other weapons, cars and et cetera but not to feed their people?

    Well in Somalia there are also poor pirates that couldn't keep on fishing because of the nuclear & chemical waste the west sends there...

    Gotta Love LowEndDrama

  • joepie91 said: See also this page.

    Instructive, thanks!

    Gotta Love LowEndDrama

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    Hidden_Refuge said: You mean like the poor pirates in Somalia? Having thousands of US dollars to buy AK47s, other weapons, cars and et cetera but not to feed their people?

    An AK in Somalia and the surrounding area barely costs 300$.
    A new one from China does not even cost 1000$, stores here in Austria sell the semi-auto Norinco Type 56 (a clone of the original Soviet AK47 design with minor improvements) at around 1000EUR (they do seem to fetch 2500$+ in US though, as they seem to be banned since 198*).

  • William said: stores here in Austria

    In Austria it's like in the USA people can have guns?

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  • 2bb3 said: Well in Somalia there are also poor pirates that couldn't keep on fishing because of the nuclear & chemical waste the west sends there...

    Somalia is yet another story, but we have to get back to the 70's (way before the "Blackhawk Down"). Just do some research, and you will find it is not about genocide, it's all about oil and power over Africa.

    Happy to be alive and kicking!

  • netomxnetomx Member, Moderator

    William said: An AK in Somalia and the surrounding area barely costs 300$

    I would love to have one of these on my wall u.u

  • What kind of people send just 100K to some random people because of an email?

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  • netomxnetomx Member, Moderator

    @GM2015 said:
    What kind of people send just 100K to some random people because of an email?

    stupid innocent people.

    A friend got scammed similarly, they were contacted by a local sell platform (MercadoLibre, like eBay), that someone wanted to buy a professional camera from Mexico to the US (really?!). He payed for the shipping, he sent the camera, and he sent $50 USD to the "Royal Bank" to confirm his account and receive his money... He told me he sold it minutes after he sent the money and the day the camera arrived to its destination in Jamaina, NY, USA. No way José hahahaha

    Thanked by 2vRozenSch00n GM2015
  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider
    edited November 2015

    2bb3 said: In Austria it's like in the USA people can have guns?

    Yes, Austrians (or rather any EU citizen living in Austria as mandated by EU contract) can own nearly anything that is no full auto weapon or a pump action shotgun (and no .50 BMG, though the "CA legal" calibers like .51 are allowed). Not quite as good as in some US states (AK, LA etc.) but better than some (CA, DC) and MUCH better than most of EU/Europe (AFAIK only CZ is easier for CC permits in EU, but no country is as easy for single shot repeating rifles/shotguns as Austria).

    Shotguns/repeating rifles are much like TX/AK, you can just walk into a store, complete the background check (without needing to provide fingerprints or anything, just show ID and they enter it in a gov provided system) and pick up your weapon ~3days (cool down phase, has nothing to do with BG check) later OR if you have already a CC permit/hunting license/weapons permit you can take it home immediately. Handguns, semi autos and rifles below 50cm length need a permit from gov which is automatically granted for "self defence" after a background check and ~10min psych evaluation, costs like 500EUR though. Private sales of long guns (only non semi auto) are not regulated/recorded, Commercial/Private sales of handguns/semi auto are recorded by the dealer and (since end ~2013) added to a central gov database.

    There are an estimated ~2.5 million handguns and ~5 million long guns in Austria which has ~8.5million people. The long gun number is only estimated by gov as they were not recorded at all until 2013 and gov itself estimates that with the current fine for not registering (no risk to loose gun, just a fine) only a few 10% actually did register all their guns. Austria is at gun ownership per 100 people pretty far up the list, and these calculations do only count in registered/gov supplied data.

    I have a blog article with details here:

    https://rdns.im/gun-laws-in-austria

    And i wrote most of the wikipedia entry here as well:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#Austria

    vRozenSch00n said: it's all about oil and power over Africa.

    Since when does Somalia have any notable oil ressources on-shore? And what power do you get in the oil rich west africa or industrial rich south africa by occupying/controlling a country in east africa? Yes, with power over the coasts of Puntland/Somaliland you have control over a major shipping route, however no matter who controls the SO "government" they stand exactly zero chance against Atalanta (EU/NATO mission against pirates) or any military of any country that has a bunch of boats with MGs and some rocket launchers...

    Thanked by 1vRozenSch00n
  • There is a logic error here. How is it possible for someone that stupid to even have $100k to send to a random Nigerian guy in the first place?

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  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    William said: An AK in Somalia and the surrounding area barely costs 300$. A new one from China does not even cost 1000$, stores here in Austria sell the semi-auto Norinco Type 56 (a clone of the original Soviet AK47 design with minor improvements) at around 1000EUR (they do seem to fetch 2500$+ in US though, as they seem to be banned since 198*).

    In the US, you're thinking of the MAK-90 which even buying at gunauction.com is only $800ish, and I wouldn't say the MAK-90 is the apex of AK-47 semi-auto clones.

    The MAK-90 is not banned, they're just not imported any more. But dozens of other AK47 clones are and they can be had for way less than $800.

    Of course, these are all semi-auto. If you want full-auto, then you'd be buying a pre-1980s copy and need a special license and then, yeah, you're in the tens of thousands.

    I thought Austrians all ran around with Steyr AUGs :-)

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