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VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

For other providers out there, what information do you require when someone is requesting you to open port 25? My current customer base has kind of revolted when I started asking for:

  • Valid Photo ID
  • Reasoning for opening port
  • The IP you would like the port opened on (for customers with multiple IPs which I have also gotten rid of for the most part)
  • Your VPS must have a valid A/AAAA record, valid PTR (rDNS) in a separate ticket, and must have SPF set.

Though I'm assuming most of the people who wanted refunds / put in a cancellation request were only there to Spam.

Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

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Comments

  • I'd revolt if my provider asked me for photo id and probably cancel

    Thanked by 1deadbeef
  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    JoeMerit said: I'd revolt if my provider asked me for photo id and probably cancel

    But you would also revolt if the provider was null-routed for 12ish hours due to one customer spamming also (which is what ended up happening and why I started asking for these things). I do think its a extreme but at the same time I haven't found a better solution (that has actually worked), my hope is that this is temporary until I can find something better... I mean I could always set-up a smarthost and filter the mail there, but then I feel like I'm also being extreme.

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • This sounds really stupid.. any person/company willing to do manual labor on a vps customer is crazy.. :)

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • Someone could give you all of that information and still screw your IP addresses over, it is pretty much a hit or miss. You can require all that information and still get screwed. Id say just keep the port blocked.

    What system do you have in place to monitor spam on your server I believe that is the important thing. If you have a good system that will catch spam early that's always good.

    LEBNODE LLC: High Performance OpenVZ and KVM-SATA-3/RAID1-10 VM's - LA - VA - LDN - Free 20Gbps Mitigation

    ~EU~ Dedicated Intel Servers - Intel Xeon E3 1231v3 @ 3.4GHz - Loc (NL) - On Sale (Contact Me On Skype @ IgniteServers) for a deal!

  • I'd say rate limit port 25.

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    IgniteServers said: What system do you have in place to monitor spam on your server

    I'm still searching for something good/reliable (haven't had a whole lot of luck but I may be searching the wrong keywords), suggestions are always welcome.

    black said: I'd say rate limit port 25.

    At the time of the last thread it was rate limited, though it was flagged and escalated due to the content of the emails (from a spammer in August) and I'm still seeing these IPs show up in blacklists though noone is using them anymore.

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • LEBNODE LLC: High Performance OpenVZ and KVM-SATA-3/RAID1-10 VM's - LA - VA - LDN - Free 20Gbps Mitigation

    ~EU~ Dedicated Intel Servers - Intel Xeon E3 1231v3 @ 3.4GHz - Loc (NL) - On Sale (Contact Me On Skype @ IgniteServers) for a deal!

  • jarjar Provider

    Keep in mind that some of the people who freak out about what you ask...it may very well be because they intend to misuse it.

    Not all, of course, but anger is a common tool in social engineering to bypass policies.

    Thanked by 2vimalware gestiondbi
  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • @VPSSoldiers For kvm you can use like Zabbix, Observium, Munin & Nagios all of those are useful.

    LEBNODE LLC: High Performance OpenVZ and KVM-SATA-3/RAID1-10 VM's - LA - VA - LDN - Free 20Gbps Mitigation

    ~EU~ Dedicated Intel Servers - Intel Xeon E3 1231v3 @ 3.4GHz - Loc (NL) - On Sale (Contact Me On Skype @ IgniteServers) for a deal!

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    Jar said: Keep in mind that some of the people who freak out about what you ask

    I assume thats why the people who wanted refunds or decided to cancel did so (though I'm not 100% on that, its what I tell myself to make me feel better anyways).

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    @IgniteServers said:
    VPSSoldiers For kvm you can use like Zabbix, Observium, Munin & Nagios all of those are useful.

    I do use zabbix, though I haven't really looked into creating a "item" (well I did and then for some reason stopped). I'm really looking for something to actively monitor and prevent the spam (at a reasonable price) I'm thinking about contacting Mail Channels right now though I have a feeling its gonna be more than I can afford right now.

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • VPSSoldiers said: But you would also revolt if the provider was null-routed for 12ish hours due to one customer spamming also (which is what ended up happening and why I started asking for these things).

    The customer doesn't care one whit about the provider's business relationships with their upstreams.

    There are plenty of providers that don't suffer from 12hr downtime, like, ever, let alone due to something so trivial as spam.

    The chance to save a few bucks per month is not going to drive anyone to put up with that kind of service.

    VPSSoldiers said: I haven't found a better solution

    You probably need to find a better DC, not a better solution. You realize Dacentec sells VPS as well? I'm not saying this influences their decision process, I'm saying the risk of this influencing their decision process is enough not to put yourself in that situation. You should deal with a data center that takes their co-location segment seriously enough not to have to complete in the VPS market.

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    singsing said: You probably need to find a better DC, not a better solution.

    Its still on my mind, but I haven't decided what I'm going to do in this regard. Right now I'm looking for a solution that I could implement immediately without breaking the bank and like I said in my other thread, I don't blame them for protecting their IPs I just wish it would of been handled differently (e.g. block port 25 at their filters) since I do have customers that just do VPN, name servers, etc.

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    @JoeMerit said:
    I'd revolt if my provider asked me for photo id and probably cancel

    Would you rather have to setup a smarthost?

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • VPSSoldiers said: But you would also revolt if the provider was null-routed for 12ish hours due to one customer spamming also (which is what ended up happening and why I started asking for these things). I do think its a extreme but at the same time I haven't found a better solution (that has actually worked), my hope is that this is temporary until I can find something better... I mean I could always set-up a smarthost and filter the mail there, but then I feel like I'm also being extreme.

    I wouldn't revolt, I would simply cancel and move on to another host. You might want to do your research into how to run a host somewhere else because you certainly don't inspire confidence in your services.

  • Honestly they are in the VPS market also, they possible just jumped the gun due to the fact that you are competition, you never know. This is why its good to either do a good check on the host or have your own hardware. Usually if spamming is going on and you don't catch it the DC catches it and sends you an email or something. At least from my experience with OVH and Quadranet I guess you live and learn daily.

    LEBNODE LLC: High Performance OpenVZ and KVM-SATA-3/RAID1-10 VM's - LA - VA - LDN - Free 20Gbps Mitigation

    ~EU~ Dedicated Intel Servers - Intel Xeon E3 1231v3 @ 3.4GHz - Loc (NL) - On Sale (Contact Me On Skype @ IgniteServers) for a deal!

  • RBHRBH Member
    edited October 2015

    @JoeMerit said:
    I'd revolt if my provider asked me for photo id and probably cancel

    And this is why I stay away from BuyVM

  • JonchunJonchun Member, Provider

    @IgniteServers said:
    Honestly they are in the VPS market also, they possible just jumped the gun due to the fact that you are competition, you never know. This is why its good to either do a good check on the host or have your own hardware. Usually if spamming is going on and you don't catch it the DC catches it and sends you an email or something. At least from my experience with OVH and Quadranet I guess you live and learn daily.

    Those are some pretty serious accusations you're making. Also how does having your own hardware affect whether or not your upstream nullroutes you???

    Thanked by 1VPSSoldiers
  • RBHRBH Member

    Just to add onto my last comment I'm assuming people that send spam signup under VPNs/Proxies ? If so, why not implement something like block script?

  • IgniteServersIgniteServers Member
    edited October 2015

    @RBH said:
    Just to add onto my last comment I'm assuming people that send spam signup under VPNs/Proxies ? If so, why not implement something like block script?

    True, but what exactly? Sheesh if there is something out their id use it also.

    LEBNODE LLC: High Performance OpenVZ and KVM-SATA-3/RAID1-10 VM's - LA - VA - LDN - Free 20Gbps Mitigation

    ~EU~ Dedicated Intel Servers - Intel Xeon E3 1231v3 @ 3.4GHz - Loc (NL) - On Sale (Contact Me On Skype @ IgniteServers) for a deal!

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    JoeMerit said: I wouldn't revolt, I would simply cancel and move on to another host. You might want to do your research into how to run a host somewhere else because you certainly don't inspire confidence in your services.

    Everyone starts somewhere, though I've been running VPS's for several years for people I know and who I trust wont abuse the services and if I don't inspire confidence because I've asked questions about spam, sorry I don't know everything and if anyone says they do then they are full of it.

    Also if I don't inspire confidence then don't use me as a provider, thats your decision and you have the right to form your own opinion of me.

    Jonchun said: Those are some pretty serious accusations you're making. Also how does having your own hardware affect whether or not your upstream nullroutes you???

    Though I don't own my own hardware (and colo, I have poweredge 1950/2950 for home use) at this moment, I will be purchasing at least one server by the end of the year (maybe the beginning of 2016), and coloing it somewhere else.

    RBH said: Just to add onto my last comment I'm assuming people that send spam signup under VPNs/Proxies ? If so, why not implement something like block script?

    These are people who are not flagging more than 1% via fraud record and every one I have done a port scan on has not flagged anything out of the norm.

    I think I may end up going the smarthost route (through a third party), though requires a bit more for the customer to setup its probably the easiest / best option in this case.

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • blackblack Member
    edited October 2015

    IgniteServers said: True, but what exactly? Sheesh if there is something out their id use it also.

    http://getipintel.net & https://github.com/KuJoe/chkProxy

    You have to edit the script a little because a contact parameter is required now. There's some flags you may find useful as well so see the site for details.

    Thanked by 1IgniteServers
  • RBHRBH Member
    edited October 2015

    @IgniteServers
    Well there's this: http://blocked.com which is quite expensive but also a cheaper alternative : http://xioax.com/host-blocker/ but you have to implement that yourself and there may be some hosts not blocked

  • RBHRBH Member
    edited October 2015

    @black
    Thanks I wasn't aware of these o.o How accurate would they be is what I'm wondering now

    EDIT: Unfortunately has a low rate limit :c

  • jarjar Provider

    @RBH said:
    Just to add onto my last comment I'm assuming people that send spam signup under VPNs/Proxies ? If so, why not implement something like block script?

    If you want someone to trust you with their uptime and IP reputation, you should trust them to reasonably know who you are. Signing up under a VPN implies you don't want them to know that.

    Abusive sign ups are more than just spam. Customers given root access to a server typically have the potential to cause problems that impact the uptime and stability of services for other customers, so any company that respects their customers will guard their door. As a customer, you want your host to be careful who they let in to be your neighbor.

  • RBH said: How accurate would they be is what I'm wondering now

    See for your self, throw some data at it.

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    @Jar have you ever used MailChannels?

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • jarjar Provider

    @VPSSoldiers said:
    Jar have you ever used MailChannels?

    I've not. Looks interesting!

  • I would just go to a $3.50 VPS provider that's also good and does not ask these things.

    (((o(゚▽゚)o))) If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. (((o(゚▽゚)o)))

    ヽ(`Д´)ノ Everyone should run Tor on their idle servers.

  • I usually cancel if ask for id but other verifications is usually fine with me.

    Typical guy alexneo.net

    Peering AS135103

  • JonchunJonchun Member, Provider

    @black said:

    I'm getting successful queries without contact information. Is this a bug or have you just not implemented the required contact field?

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    JoeMerit said: I'd revolt if my provider asked me for photo id and probably cancel

    That.

    VPSSoldiers said: But you would also revolt if the provider was null-routed for 12ish hours due to one customer spamming also (which is what ended up happening and why I started asking for these things).

    Yes, because your datacenter is shit then. Utter shit. Shit that no one ever should use in any case. Idiotic choice, especially as i am sure you never asked them about abuse policy beforehand.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider
    edited October 2015

    Must agree with @William here. If the Datacentre is not provider friendly they should gost no providers.

    If the Datacentre null routes for spam, instead of acting adequately and block port 25, they should host no one.

    Clouvider Limited - Leading Hosting Provider & Connectivity Partner || Dedicated Server Sale - Our Latest LET Offer

    Cloud Web Hosting | SSD & SAS HA OnApp VPS | UK, NL & DE Dedicated Servers | Network Services | Colocation | Managed Services

  • I would force outgoing traffic through port 25 to a single host. Namely my own e-mail server with anti-spam features.

  • blackblack Member
    edited October 2015

    Jonchun said: I'm getting successful queries without contact information. Is this a bug or have you just not implemented the required contact field?

    Queries after Dec. 1st will return an error if there's no contact information so I advise people to code in contact information now instead of forgetting about it later.

  • dacentecdacentec Member, Provider

    At some point if you get enough SBLs you will be shutdown.

    @William and @Clouvider should we keep ROKSO customers? Ignore SBLs?

    https://Dacentec.com - [email protected]
    Dedicated Servers, Cloud Services and Colo /SSAE16 SOC 2 / On site 24 hour support

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    dacentec said: @William and @Clouvider should we keep ROKSO customers? Ignore SBLs?

    You are a pussy to bow in front of Spamhaus and get fucked by them (and you seem to love that), you sell your soul to some anonymous Swiss company.

    You should NEVER just null an IP - You HAVE to contact the customer before and give him time to resolve the problem himself, at least 12 hours. Everyone does that, including Softlayer, Leaseweb and OVH and they never had escalation issues with Spamhaus.

  • Awmusic12635Awmusic12635 Member, Provider

    @VPSSoldiers said:
    Jar have you ever used MailChannels?

    Not typically cheap

    Subnet Labs, LLC Contact Us Deploy to: Seattle, Dallas or NYC
    Impact VPS | Cloud Servers | Storage Servers | Impact Shared | Shared Hosting

  • dacentecdacentec Member, Provider

    William said: you sell your soul to some anonymous Swiss company.

    Everyone deals with Spamhaus the same way, even the companies you mention.

    William said: You HAVE to contact the customer before and give him time to resolve the problem himself, at least 12 hours.

    What makes you think that we didn't do that? We always notify customers about the issue first, at least a couple times. It's easy to say crazy things and beat up on a provider when they can't share any facts.

    Thanked by 1Dylan

    https://Dacentec.com - [email protected]
    Dedicated Servers, Cloud Services and Colo /SSAE16 SOC 2 / On site 24 hour support

  • jarjar Provider
    edited October 2015

    @VPSSoldiers said:
    Jar have you ever used MailChannels?

    Btw, just tried this. IPs were listed at sorbs. I understand blacklist issues but if your entire purpose is to avoid it... fail :(

  • linuxthefishlinuxthefish Member
    edited October 2015

    Bad idea, 90% of spammers are stupid and come up on fraud record anyway

    Just ask what email they are sending and how much and you should be fine, hopefully your spammers are as honest as the ones i see - "opt in newsletter" normally means spam...

    Thanked by 1deadbeef
  • TheLinuxBugTheLinuxBug Member
    edited October 2015

    @VPSSoldiers We have a pretty simple policy that tends to work for our group. If you request reverse DNS we require you have a forward DNS setup before requesting and if the hosts look fishy or to be spammers we immediately notify the customer that we have a no tolerance spam policy and if they begin to spam from the server one or more of the following will happen:

    1. We will block port 25 to your server if you fail to reply to any abuse notification in 24 hours (the first time, second time we block immediately port 25 until the issue is confirmed resolved). In your case you are blocking until they ticket which is fine, but you should still let them know that failure to handle an abuse issue in a timely fashion will result in port 25 being disabled again.

    2. We will bill your account administrative fees for having to deal with cleaning any ips (which they also agree to in the TOS) which can be from $25 (our base charge) to $500 depending on the abuse seen.

    3. If there is any repeat to the abuse or you fail to contact us within 72 hours on an issue we will suspend your service.

    Asking for ID won't really prove more than they are able to generate a fake ID in the worst case, and that they exist in the best. Either way, this will not prevent them from doing what they are intending, so really, this doesn't help you much. People without morals and ethics will still be people without morals and ethics whether they have given you their ID or not.

    Asking their intended use for the service is completely within your purview and if a client refuses to give you information about their intended use, it is likely they intend to spam and you don't need them as a customer anyways, so let them be upset and leave.

    You let one customer get away with it or allow them to get around these rules and that information will make it out and you will start getting a ton of sign-ups requesting the same stuff. If you stand strong on your rules you will find quickly that they will be passed around and your abuse sign-ups will eventually lessen in the same way.

    You drive your services policy, not your $3 per month customers, if they can't deal with your policy then they weren't really a good customer to begin with. Let them go. There are many more fish out there that will buy without the want to abuse your services. If you start catering to random people and giving in on your policy people will see this and simply start abusing you.

    my 2 cents.

    Cheers!

    Thanked by 2jar IgniteServers

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  • @VPSSoldiers said:
    Valid Photo ID

    What, no sperm sample?

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    deadbeef said: What, no sperm sample?

    Thats for every other port

    /sarcasm

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • VPSSoldiersVPSSoldiers Member, Provider

    Jar said: Btw, just tried this. IPs were listed at sorbs. I understand blacklist issues but if your entire purpose is to avoid it... fail :(

    I was looking at this, then I saw the price.

    Connor | VPS Soldiers | Plans starting at $3.50/mo

  • You could use some phone verification or sms verification service.

    tsdns.io - free, redundant, DDoS-protected TSDNS

  • tr1cky said: You could use some phone verification or sms verification service.

    Spammers don't have phones?

  • VPSSoldiers said: I was looking at this, then I saw the price.

    That's only cost-effective for millions of e-mails.

    Sendgrid starts at only $80/mo with Subuser API.

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