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    Proxmox or XenServer?
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    Proxmox or XenServer?

    NomadNomad Member
    edited September 2015 in General

    Right now I have Proxmox installed in my Online.net 1115 for personal uses and I think it's decent. I like that I can manage it via the web interface and that it's debian based.

    The reason I am planning to go full virtualization is because I'm sick of configuring everything on bare metal over and over whenever I need something different and that I think a KVM/XEN vm would serve me better.

    Right now it's installed in one server and I'm thinking of installing it to my Online.net 1215 server. So that I can move VPSes between servers in case of error etc. Or backup one machine to another.

    I have been tinkering around with Proxmox for a week or so. Before that I tried installing ESXi and found that it's a tad too complex to setup and access NAT VM's compared to Proxmox.

    Right now I can easily have IPv6 only VMs, NAT VMs, NAT + IPv6 VMs and if I buy failover IP's I have VMs with their own IP. I think I figured out most of it's uses already. I don't think I will need much support for it other than Google results.

    There's also one other server in question, XENServer. I haven't tried it.

    I was wondering, is it worth switching over?
    Is it somehow more secure?
    Is it easier/more complex to manage?
    Is cloning, making templates, networking, automating, managing better or worse in XenServer?
    How hard is it to setup HA on both? Do I need special hardware?
    What can I do with that that can't be done with Proxmox?

    Since many people here are in hosting business and that they know both servers or at least they're like-minded, I'ld like to get your opinion before I try installing the other one. Or any other good, free ones that can replace Proxmox. I should also add that I am new to virtualization stuff.

    And please, only those who used or have the knowledge for both of them comment on it.

    ...
    ...

    Comments

    • Proxmox is your buddy bro.
      But i honestly recommend Virtualizor .

    • proxmox certainly.

      I AM BACK :)
      Working Windows Server 2012 R2 on 6GB! Beat that!

    • @RockBeltHOST said:
      Proxmox is your buddy bro.
      But i honestly recommend Virtualizor .

      Well, since I'm not someone earning his living from IT business, I don't want to pay for virtualization platforms and Virtualizor is a paid one as much as I know.

      ...
      ...

    • @Nomad said:
      Well, since I'm not someone earning his living from IT business, I don't want to pay for virtualization platforms and Virtualizor is a paid one as much as I know.

      well ...
      you get what you pay for.
      and xenserver from citric or whatever the company was called is not free either.
      and you won't get direct support from them unlike Virtualizor.

    • gestiondbigestiondbi Member, Provider

      I prefer XenServer, but lot more complicated to setup and maintain than proxmox

      Gestion DBI Inc. | IT Consulting, Telecommunications, Domotic/Security and Hosting provider.
      DeepNet Solutions | OpenVZ VPS for Cheap! | Only the best Cloud KVM VPS.

    • @davidgestiondbi said:
      I prefer XenServer, but lot more complicated to setup and maintain than proxmox

      Would you mind explaining your reasoning behind you choice?

      What made you choose XenServer over Proxmox?

      @RockbeltHost, as a host, it might be a critical plus for you to have support but for a lad like me it's of no importance since I have the flexibility to wait and resolve it or start over. Also I've generally found the community welcoming (:

      ...
      ...

    • I was going to use Proxmox because it worked really well on Debian 7 with OpenVZ. On Debian 8 with LXC, however,... I can get LXC to work without Proxmox but not with.. >.> makes no sense. Command line it is for me (it's literally just create destroy start stop+ a few config lines. Just haven't figured out how to add IPv6 /64 per LXC instance yet).

      (((o(゚▽゚)o))) If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. (((o(゚▽゚)o)))

      ヽ(`Д´)ノ Everyone should run Tor on their idle servers.

    • Big fan of ESXi.

    • you should look Into Proxmox if it's not for production level. will be worth it.

      I never honestly managed to install xenserver on a server sucessfuly.

    • I used ProxMox a couple years back and I didn't think it had the full functunality that Xen does.

      Xen is nice, fluid, and runs really stable. Creating templates is one click. I haven't ever failed over on a network like online, you would need to check the networking to see how / if that's possible. It is free to use.

      ESXI is comparable, a lot of companies I walk into are using it on their infrastructure to support a_lot of VMs. It seems to be the business go to. Templates are one click, snapshots as well. Creating a data store is simple. ESXI has a free key once you register on their site, otherwise it's only valid for 60d.

      Since it's for personal use, try setting up each of them for a couple days, play around, and see what you think. A lot of it will be personal preference based on what suits you best.

    • well.i think webvirtmgr with kvm is awesome

    • RockBeltHOST said: you should look Into Proxmox if it's not for production level.

      Stop repeating this outright lie. Why isn't it "production"? Because WHMCS / Solus doesn't work out of the box with it?

      Thanked by 1coolice

      How to clean up a questionable reputation: throw the kids some BF/CM offers.

    • coolicecoolice Member
      edited September 2015

      Yes proxmox is more than ok for enterprise (got all features) and it is extremely stable. Also is suitable for high end VMs

      Not suitable only for low end provider as it requires some manual tasks to be performed (depend on setup ) during vm installs

      P.S I also like Virtualizor it getting better and better featured every month and support is responsive

      OpenVz Node + KernelCare uptime - 1275 Days :)

    • @Riz, current version of Proxmox already has those functions you mentioned.
      ESXi means learning pfSense and more stuff to use since it doesn't support NAT and free licence has too much limitations ad much as I know.

      @maoyipeng, didn't know that one. I will check it out.

      @rockbelthost, I am already using it as I told. And what makes it non-production, care to elaborate?

      @4n0nX, never used vz containers since I despise it. But assigning a /64 to a kvm vm, well that is something I'm trying to figure out as well.
      Currently one of my interfaces gives NAT IP's via dhcp to connecting VM's. I couldn't make the builtin NAT work as dnsmasq did. I tried assigning ipv6 addresses to the clients as well, but that didn't go well either. Still trying to figure that out. I wonder if these are easier on XenServer...

      ...
      ...

    • smalletsmallet Member
      edited September 2015

      @4n0nx said:
      I was going to use Proxmox because it worked really well on Debian 7 with OpenVZ. On Debian 8 with LXC, however,... I can get LXC to work without Proxmox but not with.. >.> makes no sense. Command line it is for me (it's literally just create destroy start stop+ a few config lines. Just haven't figured out how to add IPv6 /64 per LXC instance yet).

      Isn't proxmox 4 still pretty much in beta? It worked fine for me, but got lots of errors with lxc snapshots. Their new builds marked that as fixed, didn't try again though.

    • rockbelthost, I am already using it as I told. And what makes it non-production, care to elaborate?

      Proxmox doesnt have a nice in built reinstall OS feature on it;s web UI.
      Which is must for production level.

      There are many man just google it up.

    • gestiondbigestiondbi Member, Provider

      @Nomad said:
      RockbeltHost, as a host, it might be a critical plus for you to have support but for a lad like me it's of no importance since I have the flexibility to wait and resolve it or start over. Also I've generally found the community welcoming (:

      I use lot of Citrix products, prior the release XenServer for Community, so can't tell you on the lastest version, but Citrix product are awesome for Quality, Reliability and Support. They are a direct competitor of VMware for business hosting and infrastructure.

      Like I said, can't really tell with the latest development. The last version I used was the 5.

      Hope that answer your question.

      Gestion DBI Inc. | IT Consulting, Telecommunications, Domotic/Security and Hosting provider.
      DeepNet Solutions | OpenVZ VPS for Cheap! | Only the best Cloud KVM VPS.

    • isaaclisaacl Member
      edited September 2015

      Use this to get pfSense and ESXi working on an online.net server: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/1235926/#Comment_1235926
      My other ESXi servers are set up with public IPs for each VM, which seems to be working well for me.

    • And depends on what you want to set up, but I haven't run into issues with the limitations of the free version of ESXi for most things.

    • Mahfuz_SS_EHLMahfuz_SS_EHL Member, Provider

      +1 for Virtualizor. I use it for Xen Virtualization (Not XenServer) & it works like charm. Support is also pretty faster !

      AlphaSSL Revocation Issue is being investigated.

    • RockBeltHOST said: Proxmox doesnt have a nice in built reinstall OS feature on it;s web UI. Which is must for production level.

      Production by his standards is "summerhost production"

      How to clean up a questionable reputation: throw the kids some BF/CM offers.

    • servarica_haniservarica_hani Member, Provider

      I am used to xenserver and i can give you some of its features that makes it good choice
      Xenserver has out of box HA support, (now has even docker container support)
      device passthrough, vGPU ,DVSC and since you are doing it for yourself it has thin provision as well

      Also it is free (some advanced features are paid for but mostly you never need them like Workload Balancing)

      xencenter is very good tool to manage your servers

      on the downside xenserver does not have good webbased tool to manage it and you have to rely on xencenter most of the time or xe command

      Note: with xenserver you will loose some of the flexibility (like the root disk has to be 4GB only !! )of standard xen or kvm but that is for easier management (e.g. security is handled by them and you get notified for new security patched which can be installed using xencenter which is one of best features)

      Thanks

      VPS and Cloud hosting at
      http://servarica.com

    • Awmusic12635Awmusic12635 Member, Provider

      We use proxmox in production. It is more than stable

      Thanked by 1doughmanes

      Subnet Labs, LLC Contact Us Deploy to: Seattle, Dallas or NYC
      Impact VPS | Cloud Servers | Storage Servers | Impact Shared | Shared Hosting

    • @Hani said:

      >

      on the downside xenserver does not have good webbased tool to manage it and you have to rely on xencenter most of the time or xe command

      Note: with xenserver you will loose some of the flexibility (like the root disk has to be 4GB only !! )of standard xen or kvm but that is for easier management (e.g. security is handled by them and you get notified for new security patched which can be installed using xencenter which is one of best features)

      Thanks

      haem... XenOrchestra anyone???

    • servarica_haniservarica_hani Member, Provider

      @kuzko_topia said:
      haem... XenOrchestra anyone???

      I dont think it is free anymore.

      VPS and Cloud hosting at
      http://servarica.com

    • @Hani said:
      I dont think it is free anymore.

      well, there is a free version... but if you have to think about high availability, not paying for an insanely useful tool like this is kind of weird ;)

    • RockBeltHOST said: and you won't get direct support from them unlike Virtualizor.

      Hey @wych, how's that working out for you?

    • wychwych Member
      edited September 2015

      @Damian said:
      Hey wych, how's that working out for you?

      OK I guess. Not spoke to them for a couple of weeks.

      Shame online.net uses dibbler

      Taking a hiatus.

    • I use proxmox but i am a fan of xenserver.

      Proxmox because I have to give some people access and they do not understand xenserver.

      Other than that:
      Spice is a plus for proxmox as well as full https administration, debian based and all. I first install debian 7 then add proxmox.
      Stability is a plus for XenServer, but it is way more complicated to admin, setting up drives and all is kinda bugging me, not because I dont now how, but it is time consuming. Also, the bare metal os is fairly limited, while proxmox can be a full debian, I even used a full desktop on one.

      Conclusion: XenServer stable, complicated, not for the regular guy.
      Proxmox, easy, less stable, it bugs me with the pop-up, is not Xen. XenPV is now almost on par with OVZ on speedand is full virtualization, while HVMPV is on par with KVM, so, no real gain even if you use OVZ and limit yourself in many ways.
      That being said XenServer is no longer the rock it was, there are some quirks, I fear Xen is losing userbase and interest while pushing for major changes.

      Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

    • AmitzAmitz Member
      edited September 2015

      Maounique said: it bugs me with the pop-up

      The "no subscription" message that pop ups?

      http://www.jamescoyle.net/how-to/614-remove-the-proxmox-no-subscription-message

      "Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.", Stephen Hawking, 2017. Join the Amitz party here.

    • It wills till but me more to modify the code and will be back after each update. I would rather use XenServer which was requiring a free subscription then remove the annoying stuff than start with a tool that is open source then becomes nagware.

      Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

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