Raided for running a Tor exit - Accepting donations for legal expenses

24khost

****NOTE i AM NOT STANDING UP FOR THE SICKO'S****

That said the US view on CP is not the same as every other country in the world. I have seen european magazines that show nake 16 year olds in them, now they were not in sexual nature, but in the us that wouldn't matter that is still CP as they are under the age of 18. So the defenition of CP is different where ever you come from. In the US we look at a picture of Marky Mark in boxers (calvin klien ad from the 80's I think) and we as a country went nuts about it being CP even though he had underoo's on.

Spencer

@24khost said: I have seen european magazines that show nake 16 year olds in them, now they were not in sexual nature, but in the us that wouldn't matter that is still CP as they are under the age of 18

Wrong, in the USA if the child is under 18 you can show nude pictures of them IF they are non sexual. It is a grey area though.

joepie91

@Ree said: Not necessarily. Look at the guy who used photoshop to swirl his face in CP pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil). I'll bet if you asked a bunch of random people, 99.9% would say that was a smart thing to do and he'd never get caught. Didn't quite work that way for him though, since he used a (mostly) lossless transformation.

Visual transformations have squat to do with encryption.

@Ree said: Same thing could happen to somebody using encryption. You take a smart idea like encrypting all the incriminating evidence and make a boneheaded mistake like using "cp_rules" as your key.

Do you really think that someone running a TOR node to mask his activity would use such a simple, stupid, and ridiculously predictable password?

@Ree said: And if I'm reading your post right you're taking it one step further and saying "even if we think the exit node is a cover for something, that means he's waaaay to smart for us so why even bother trying to catch him".

That is exactly what I'm saying. Target the producers instead.

@24khost said: ****NOTE i AM NOT STANDING UP FOR THE SICKO'S****

This kind of note should not be necessary.

Maounique

@24khost said: That said the US view on CP is not the same as every other country in the world.

Technically, in US you are a kid up to 21, but, of course, being tough on crime that changes when you are over 12/14/16. So, you have the adult mind when you pick pockets, but not when you fuck.

jar

@Maounique said: you have the adult mind when you pick pockets, but not when you

Well we're taught not to steal before we can walk, and we're not taught about the other until later on. Makes sense that you have more time to grow into understanding one than the other by a certain age.

24khost

@joepie91 it shouldn't but i don't want anything misconstrued. At this point I follow the American way innocent until proven guilty. Okay latley in America it is the other way around but I would rather follow what is meant to be. We will stick with @William until we are proven the charges are true. Same way that right now until the usada can show me real proof, not circumstantial evidence, or paid testimonies from proven cheaters, I will stick that Lance is not guilty.

Maounique

@jarland said: and we're not taught about the other until later on.

That is not the child's fault, but the church's fault. Sex is a part of life, even more so than stealing.

joepie91

@24khost said: @joepie91 it shouldn't but i don't want anything misconstrued

I'd say that the first step to getting people to treat criticism on this topic in a normal way, is not "playing their game" by adding statements like the above, and simply saying what you think. If you keep excusing yourself for casting your opinion, it will always stay a taboo.

jar

@24khost said: We will stick with @William until we are proven the charges are true.

Heck, you'll have to convince me twice that they are even then. It could have been any one of a number of us here in the same situation.

CVPS_Chris

Laugh. So much for the $10million a year

24khost

nope @Maounique 18 is when you are a legal adult but that is not the drinking age.
Everything else goes adult at 18. That is why in the porn industry that have an 18 yr old model deal that all models have to have verifiable proof. Regardless this is not the issue. The issue is shoot first ask questions later mentality that has become of law enforment latley.

Maounique

@24khost said: The issue is shirt first ask questions later mentality that has become of law enforment latley.

That is only on some charges. If police sees cp or terrorism, constitutions no longer apply. That is the problem.

Wintereise

@CVPS_Chris said: Laugh. So much for the $10million a year

You're missing the point. Edis' turnovers have nothing to do with him, and even if they did - bear in mind that he has no access to his funds while under investigation, rendering the entire point moot.

That said, I've contributed what I could - wish you guys would do the same to help a man out.

Lee

@joepie91 - yawn That is all.

@miTgiB - Covering up crime with free speech as the reason? No thanks.

fisle

Might be old, but here's a nice rap video regarding this topic which I particularly find very informative and easy to understand. :-)

joepie91

@W1V_Lee said: @joepie91 - yawn That is all.

Oh, of course. It's unpleasant to hear criticism, so you will just ridicule what I say and try to shift the blame to me, right?

Not that I expected anything else from a person that has complete disregard for others.

Lee

@joepie91 - Not at all, that was an amazing interpretation of my statemement, I don't expect anyone to agree with my views but they are mine and I am entitled to them, free speech and all that. But my expression of free speech does not hide or make excuses for a crime.

jar

@W1V_Lee said: free speech

Wish everyone had that, then we wouldn't argue with you.

Maounique

@fisle said: but here's a nice rap video

Incredible find Thanks

miTgiB

@W1V_Lee said: Covering up crime with free speech as the reason? No thanks.

So when is the moving sale as you head off to Cuba? You realize the freedoms the whole world enjoys were fought for with the lives of many. I'm just asking you to think a little more, as you solution is to extreme when thought out logically. You truly are saying shut off the internet to stop child porn?

jar

@miTgiB said: You truly are saying shut off the internet to stop child porn?

I'm for it. We need to get rid of cars. People kidnap children in them all the time. Video cameras are obviously a HUGE part in the abuse of children in the creation of child porn, so we need to raid Sony headquarters ASAP.

24khost

Tell me people in the US. What would you need a TOR server for? Tell me, what do you have to hide that is legal? Give me an example. And hiding your fetishes is not a good enough answer.

I agree ssl transactions with money yes you can say that it should be required. but what else would really be so secret you can't let anybody know unless it is done anonymously.

24khost

if guns kill people
then spoons make people fat
and pencils make spelling mistakes.

jar

@24khost said: Tell me people in the US. What would you need a TOR server for?

I think it's more a question of would you be willing to throw out a tool that you may need in the future? Just like guns. Right now I don't need my guns to fight for my freedom. But what if I did? I hope I never do, I have no indication that I will ever need to, but the whole reason for having them is that I can never tell you what tomorrow brings.

miTgiB

@24khost said: Tell me, what do you have to hide that is legal?

Free yet unpopular speech, freedom of speech is there not to protect popular, but the unpopular speech. Child porn does not get protection under free speech since there is harm to the child, but there is plenty of protected unpopular speech that deserves anonymity to be made.

Lee

I never offered a solution, I offered a view and that view still stands, what your saying is that I must accept a side business of crimes being comitted in order to allow free speech to be chanelled? It's not something I am comfortable with.

Does a TOR Node only allow access from countries where that freedom of speech is to be enouraged or is it a free for all?

William

@George_Fusioned said: Is it possible to have backup passports?

Yes, however i don't have one in ZA (as it's useless anyway, i can't get out of the EU without a passport).

@kbeezie said: So.... does that make you a flight risk?

As i am not in jail i'd guess no.

@unused said: seems like the bbc article overreached with the "Charged" statement

Yes, for whatever reasons - i hereby state again that i did not say this.

@CVPS_Chris said: Laugh. So much for the $10million a year

10/10 for missing any point here, Excellent work Chris - As usual.
Company turnover is not related to me.
I have no access to larger amounts of money at this moment and i won't get it before i get my hardware back - which i only get when i pay the lawyers, fees, court costs etc.
Do i look like i would get a loan from a bank in this situation, no matter how high my income is?
So i rely on donations/"micro loans" for this which i will, as stated, try to repay as much as possible after this - WITH LOSS FOR ME, as i have to pay tax on it.
It's is great that this works well for now and grateful for the support.

@W1V_Lee said: Does a TOR Node only allow access from countries where that freedom of speech is to be enouraged or is it a free for all?

Tor is open for anyone, which is the sense behind it - It OPENS the internet and not censors/discriminates it further.

jar

@W1V_Lee said: Does a TOR Node only allow access from countries where that freedom of speech is to be enouraged or is it a free for all?

This is actually a great idea.

Maounique

@24khost said: What would you need a TOR server for?

I know cheating your wife is illegal there, but, for example, being gay isnt, and this can ruin your career, no matter how good you are.
Or you may be willing to conceal your political views, which are not illegal, but can ruin your career too.
Or you may need to conceal your identity online, identity stealing happens more often than you may think.
There are many uses outlined in the Tor project's page, if ppl would really be interested, would go to the source, but i think this is only rhetoric and propaganda.

joepie91

@W1V_Lee said: @joepie91 - Not at all, that was an amazing interpretation of my statemement, I don't expect anyone to agree with my views but they are mine and I am entitled to them, free speech and all that. But my expression of free speech does not hide or make excuses for a crime.

Good - my free speech allows me to consider you a complete and total inconsiderate asshole and idiot, for the simple reason you apparently feel the need to make sweeping statements, disguised as an "opinion", without actually trying to understand the topic.

Congratulations, your contribution to society by casting this horribly uninformed "opinion" is exactly zero.

@24khost said: Tell me people in the US. What would you need a TOR server for? Tell me, what do you have to hide that is legal?

Yes, if people have something they wish to hide, then they will surely tell you (and the rest of the world) under their own nickname on a public forum. That wasn't very well thought out.

@24khost said: And hiding your fetishes is not a good enough answer.

Who are you to decide this for others?

@W1V_Lee said: Does a TOR Node only allow access from countries where that freedom of speech is to be enouraged or is it a free for all?

No, it allows anyone to use it. You do realize that restricting access by country would be 1. ineffective because geolocalized proxies and 2. defeating the point of TOR, there being no central body that decides what you can and can't send over TOR? Sure, you (or a node operator) may consider certain speech to not deserve anonymity, but who are you to decide over this? Restricting by country would imply that the node operator somehow has authority to tell what coutries are in a "worse shape" than others.

Oh, and did you consider that these "pedophiles" and "criminals" also exist in the countries where other citizens are in dire need of something that enables perfectly legitimate free speech for them?

miTgiB

@W1V_Lee said: I must accept a side business of crimes being comitted in order to allow free speech

No, that is what law enforcement is for, to catch the bad guys, sometimes law enforcement fails to do that, but the idea to curb one activity in the name of the children is outweighed by the cost to free speech. Read any Supreme Court opinion on free speech, you'll see that idea present most of the time in some form or another.

Maounique

@joepie91 said: Oh, and did you consider that these "pedophiles" and "criminals" also exist in the countries where other citizens are in dire need of something that enables perfectly legitimate free speech for them?

Certainly there are "terrorists" in Iran. They might not be arabs, but surely are muslims.

Lee

@jopie91 - You make me laugh at your expense, thanks for that.

@miTgiB - Why would I need access to a TOR node here in the UK, my freedom of speech is fine as far as I can see.

GIANT_CRAB

Trolls everywhere.

/drama

joepie91

@W1V_Lee said: @miTgiB - Why would I need access to a TOR node here in the UK, my freedom of speech is fine as far as I can see.

This is so cliché I shouldn't even have to quote it, but here we go:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

jar

@joepie91 said: This is so cliché

Be that as it may, it's perfect.

fisle

@W1V_Lee
You really cannot be this blind and naive, are you being serious? Because if you are, you're really dumb and I'm sorry to say that but you're unable to grasp what this all is about.

24khost

@joepie91 Who are you to decide this for others?

Provide a good example! Please cause nobody has provided a good example of what you would need to hide in the United States

Lee

No actually I understand it perfectley well, and my point is proven with all the replies, you work it out.

Asad

@Spencer said: Wrong, in the USA if the child is under 18 you can show nude pictures of them IF they are non sexual. It is a grey area though.

Only you would know this Spencer

@W1V_Lee Idiot.

miTgiB

@24khost said: Provide a good example! Please cause nobody has provided a good example of what you would need to hide in the United States

There is a growing militia movement in the United States currently, law enforcement deems them terrorist groups, I view them as a protected class under our 2nd Amendment

ElliotJ

@W1V_Lee said: Why would I need access to a TOR node here in the UK, my freedom of speech is fine as far as I can see.

So you'd have a network that's only used by people in countries that lack freedom of speech?

That reduces the anonymity a hell of a lot.

fisle

@24khost
"I have no use for it so why would anyone else need it"
Fuck logic.
Judging by your posts you don't even know how TOR works, or haven't visited TOR network. Maybe you shouldn't express your thoughts in area you lack knowledge of.

I am getting angry here, some guys really can be shortsighted.

joepie91

@24khost said: Provide a good example! Please cause nobody has provided a good example of what you would need to hide in the United States

If you begin invalidating certain reasons based on your personal beliefs, then indeed, noone can provide a good example. That's not because their examples aren't valid, but because you believe they do not apply.

@W1V_Lee said: No actually I understand it perfectley well, and my point is proven with all the replies, you work it out.

Oh look, the "I planned all this in advance" excuse routine.

24khost

@joepie91 in a sense. What protections I have based on the US constitution. Other than for your personal fetishes and cheating on your spouse. Nobody has given any example other than being anonymous. I want a good use identified so I can see it from your point of view. Cause right now all I see is a Haven for criminals. I just want something I can logically look at and see why it is really needed in the US. What is it protecting you from except your wife and what goes on behind your closed doors.

jar

Removed.

Maounique

@joepie91 said: If you begin invalidating certain reasons based on your personal beliefs

That is the root of the problem, many ppl are supporting the restrictions put to their freedoms because it doesnt affect them or they think it doesnt affect them.
They believe this is for the "greater good" and anything goes for that, only criminals will object to be spied upon.
Being on the majority side attacking the minorities is a risky business, you may never know when you will find yourself on the other side of the fence, or when others will think you are on the other side of the fence.

@jarland said: I have to assume that Prometeus is not a safe place to host religious content.

Good job there, same as bamn sending his squad of lynching jews because of a century old joke. Should I expect your bunch of rolling preachers too ?
Besides, unlike you I fight for the right of everyone to express their beliefs. I may not agree with official religions and their hate messages and wars, attack on civil liberties and the like, but they have the right to express their views and this is a cause worth dying for, not only it is not unsafe, but we do host any religion and belief, heck, I would host even the "illegal" ones, but that is not my call as I do not hold any view on the "editorial policy" either. If you want something taken down, you will need to send a DDoS because we do not offer protection for that and your target will have to move elsewhere.

joepie91

@24khost said: @joepie91 in a sense. What protections I have based on the US constitution. Other than for your personal fetishes and cheating on your spouse. Nobody has given any example other than being anonymous. I want a good use identified so I can see it from your point of view. Cause right now all I see is a Haven for criminals. I just want something I can logically look at and see why it is really needed in the US. What is it protecting you from except your wife and what goes on behind your closed doors.

You are responding to someone who doesn't use TOR (me) because he personally does not care what people know about him. You'll have to ask someone else - and I suggest that to do so, you approach someone on TOR itself, because someone on here - as I mentioned before - is very unlikely to tell you what they want to hide. After all, if they could just tell you, there would be no point in hiding it.

eLohkCalb

@24khost. I remember there's something call anonymous donation.

24khost

@joepie91 just looking for an example, doesn't have to be their personal life. I just want an example that really needs to be protected because it could really effect law biding citizens. Anybody please. Anybody who can give me a real example in the US what you woudl need it for.