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vRocket.io - Need Advice from Community
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vRocket.io - Need Advice from Community

Hello everyone.

Petar from vRocket here. Hope you're all having a great day.

We've been in hosting business since 2004, however, last week we launched something new - a SmartOS hosting platform for developers.

We always loved the good-ole SliceHost (RIP), and of course DigitalOcean, but were enamored with what Joyent has been doing with SmartOS. We, as I keep on saying, are a tight-knit group of engineers (cloud, systems, network) who like to do cool new things on the side. vRocket is the outcome of this and a platform we use ourselves, which we now bring 100% to the public.

I do not want to go and make this into an ad. It is really not my intention. There are thousands of web hosts out there, from cPanel, to Linux VPS (XEN, KVM, OpenVZ, you name it). A lot of them are more affordable, faster, or whatever. We are not trying to do the same thing - rather do it better in some way where it counts.

We know we won't grow to DigitalOcean scale, and are genuinely interested in actually offering developers (our target market) what they need, versus just trying to make money. We're quite OK with being small, local (Columbus, OH), but doing things right.

What I would really like to get from you guys (if I may) is some constructive suggestions on what we could do to improve the offer? Lower prices? Increase cores? Add new features? You name it - and we'll consider it.

Please do keep in mind - we wish to cater to developers. While a good number of our customers hosts production workloads already with us, and we welcome it, we want an affordable, feature-full platform for developers. We are also SmartOS based, so while we offer Linux Branded Zones (where ubuntu, centos or debian can run within a zone), we're more unix-ish.

Our entry level plan is simple:

  • 1vCore, 512MB RAM, 30GB SSD fronted ZFS storage, Gigabit Uplink, 2TB bandwidth = $4/mo

In general each next plan adds 1/2GB RAM more, 10GB storage, 1TB bandwidth for another $4/mo.

Our main differentiators are:

  • SmartOS (OS based virtualization) - more unix-like than linux like
  • ZFS file system (devs and DB's can benefit from LZ4 compression and SSDs)
  • Solaris Zones (better security, even once we introduce KVM workloads within zones)
  • A lot of templates to bootstrap devs and shorten deploy times (apache, nginx, couchdb, cassandra, etc.)

What can we do to differentiate and offer better service or features than other guys out there, or, i.e. what should we be providing that would make you choose vRocket rather than say DO or someone else.

Thanks in advance! I really appreciate your insight.

Petar

Founder @ vRocket.io

«1

Comments

  • HBAndreiHBAndrei Member, Top Provider

    vRocket_io said: A lot of them are more affordable, faster, or whatever. We are not trying to do the same thing - rather do it better in some way where it counts.

    Those are some ways where it counts... price and performance are like the top two things people look for when buying these services.

    If you're coming out with a product that other known and trusted providers already offer, you've got to give clients a very strong motive to buy from you as opposed to buying from the known/trusted providers.

    Your prices are a tiny bit smaller than DO and the same as Vultr, but you don't offer RAID10 pure SSD, you're also basically directing your clients to DO website on your DIY support page.

    I mean in no way to sound bashing or mean... just some feedback.

    Thanked by 1vRocket_io

    Free Uptime Monitoring - minimize your downtime by being the first to know about it.
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  • vRocket_io said: that would make you choose vRocket rather than say DO

    $50 free account credit and double referral bonuses.

    .....and 100 MB/s++ DD results or I'll send you a ticket.

  • In the near future we do wish to offer 100% ZFS SSD (SmartOS is really not built to be used with traditional RAID), but at the start ZFS fronted w/ SSD's (considering we have enough SSD cache to fit all customer data into it) we chose to do this as v1.0. But I see your point, I guess we're in the time/place where pure SSD is all people want, and justifiably so. They sure are cheap enough nowadays. I will make sure we move to that for all new clusters.

    As for $50 free acct credit - we're just a bit too small at this point to be able to afford it, honestly. Or, in other words - I'm just too afraid that a ton of people would jump and overrun us :)

    Our first cluster is spun up and has about 500GB of RAM capacity. Our second cluster is being built right now (2TB RAM capacity, 192 cores), so once we deploy it I will be in a position to offer something like this. Guess nothing advertises better than FREE I suppose :)

    Thanks for the feedback @HBAndrei and @Coffee. I appreciate it and it does make sense. It's exactly what I was looking for!

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • My previous post wasn't that serious :-/

    Good luck to you anyway!

    Thanked by 1vRocket_io
  • The 1GB RAM plan costs double but you only get 33% more HDD and 50% more b/w :/ If you could double the HDD and bandwidth along with the memory and make the price a bit less than double.. I think that would make customers feel more like they are getting a better deal when buying larger plans.

    "VPS servers" -> cut the "servers"

    (((o(゚▽゚)o))) If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. (((o(゚▽゚)o)))

    ヽ(`Д´)ノ Everyone should run Tor on their idle servers.

  • @4n0nx said:
    The 1GB RAM plan costs double but you only get 33% more HDD and 50% more b/w :/ If you could double the HDD and bandwidth along with the memory and make the price a bit less than double.. I think that would make customers feel more like they are getting a better deal when buying larger plans.

    Actually a very good point. I shall re-evaluate the pricing model and see if it makes sense to offer it like so. Thanks!

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • JonchunJonchun Member, Provider

    "I don't want to turn this into an ad but.."

    So..... It's an ad.

    Thanked by 3ratherbak3d ucxo Rapta
  • MicrolinuxMicrolinux Member
    edited September 2015

    Avoid the race to the bottom, otherwise you'll be out of business very quickly. This is not the crowd to cater to if you want to make enough money to stay in business.

    I'm not sure I see anything tangibly new or innovative here, I see more of the same with a different color paint. Am I missing something?

    Things that are technologically cool and new to you and I mean nothing to the vast majority of people purchasing virtual servers. They just want something reliable.

  • This is the wrong place to ask about prices

  • Buffalo location!

    Thanked by 1raindog308
  • vRocket_iovRocket_io Member
    edited September 2015

    @Jonchun said:
    "I don't want to turn this into an ad but.."

    Incorrect quote, I never said "but" :)

    @Microlinux said:
    Avoid the race to the bottom, otherwise you'll be out of business very quickly.

    and

    @jh said:
    This is the wrong place to ask about prices

    I see your point :)

    @Microlinux said:
    I'm not sure I see anything tangibly new or innovative here, I see more of the same with a different color paint. Am I missing something?

    [...] They just want something reliable.

    Fundamentally it's Virtualization (VM's Virtual Private Servers, whatever) - but performance and reliability wise, at leas IMHO, SmartOS and the whole platform is a lot more reliable than the rest I played with. I'm a certified VMware architect, and have deployed very large IaaS clouds for larger ISP's in US, as well as large hosting environments based on Xen, and KVM. SmartOS on the other hand is proving to be the most reliable and simple implementation of all and I've seen a lot (since VMware 2.0) :-)

    Thanks for the comments. I appreciate it. It is providing a perspective I did need to see.

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • @vRocket_io said:
    Fundamentally it's Virtualization (VM's Virtual Private Servers, whatever) - but performance and reliability wise, at leas IMHO, SmartOS and the whole platform is a lot more reliable than the rest I played with.

    If you can show corroborated hard data definitively proving that, you have a premium product on your hands. Reliability is the big thing. Performance not so much, nobody cares how efficient your platform is - any provider will be able to meet and beat software efficiency with more hardware and lighter loading schemes. As you scale, efficiency becomes more beneficial to your bottom line - but again, that's not a selling point for a customer.

    I would run as fast as possible from this market and jump into the far more lucrative market of people who see value in reliability . . . and are willing to open their wallets for it.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • jarjar Provider
    edited September 2015

    It's cool to see someone offering something different! Maybe you can help me understand the reason though. I'm sure there's more to it than I realize, but basically to me when I see SmartOS I think KVM running on a fork of OpenSolaris. What benefit to the end user does this have over KVM on Linux?

    Thanked by 1bersy
  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    Launched an instance @ vRocket, network performance:

    Download speed from CacheFly: 34.5MB/s
    Download speed from Coloat, Atlanta GA: 27.4MB/s
    Download speed from Softlayer, Dallas, TX: 8.99MB/s
    Download speed from Linode, Tokyo, JP: 5.37MB/s
    Download speed from i3d.net, Rotterdam, NL: 8.81MB/s
    Download speed from Leaseweb, Haarlem, NL: 24.2MB/s
    Download speed from Softlayer, Singapore: 3.87MB/s
    Download speed from Softlayer, Seattle, WA: 12.8MB/s
    Download speed from Softlayer, San Jose, CA: 12.3MB/s
    Download speed from Softlayer, Washington, DC: 38.2MB/s
    I/O speed :  1.3 GB/s
    

    So far so good!

  • @Microlinux said:
    I would run as fast as possible from this market and jump into the far more lucrative market of people who see value in reliability . . . and are willing to open their wallets for it.

    We've done this for awhile on a per-customer basis, and most of our larger customers with dedicated clusters do pay a good buck for it, but have decided to also offer a quick - click a button, get a decent VPS at a low cost solution where, while we strive for 100% uptime, we ideally target developers who use the platform to do their work, and then maybe even host customers.

    @Jar said:
    It's cool to see someone offering something different! Maybe you can help me understand the reason though. I'm sure there's more to it than I realize, but basically to me when I see SmartOS I think KVM running on a fork of OpenSolaris. What benefit to the end user does this have over KVM on Linux?

    A decent explanation can be found in first couple of paragraphs here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating-system-level_virtualization

    If you read first 3 paragraphs it'll explain benefits of OS-based virtualization. That's what SmartOS utilizes. In short - better performance (no hardware emulation), SmartOS surpassed the limits where OS had to be the same so with LX branded zones one can run CentOS, Debian or even Ubuntu Linux natively within a zone (not necessarily KVM emulated), and Solaris zones are arguably the best security in segmenting virtual machines from any other platform out there (Xen, KVM, OpenVZ, and even VMware).

    Also, Joyent devs creating SmartOS are same people who also wrote the ZFS file system at Sun Microsystems before Oracle acquired them. They still write it and improve it, and since SmartOS is dedicated to be a Cloud Hypervisor, cool features are now in it which provide phenomenal performance disk-wise for all VPSs, but also protect from Noisy Neighbor issues other hypervisors cannot usually combat.

    So - overall - it is old Sun Solaris technology, brought to the 21st century by Joyent, and Open Sourced 100% last year. Twitter ran on this platform for awhile, and a lot of other large top 100 websites as well (and still do).

    What vRocket is trying to do is to bring it to the "little guy" where instead of paying $20/month for a bit less resources than at Joyent, they can pay $4/mo for more at vRocket.

    Once system outgrows us, or is ready for large scale production - one's welcome to go to Joyent, they sure do it at a 1000 X larger scale than we can :)

    Hope that explains it a bit.

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • @MrGeneral said:
    Launched an instance @ vRocket, network performance:

    > Download speed from CacheFly: 34.5MB/s
    > Download speed from Coloat, Atlanta GA: 27.4MB/s
    > Download speed from Softlayer, Dallas, TX: 8.99MB/s
    > Download speed from Linode, Tokyo, JP: 5.37MB/s
    > Download speed from i3d.net, Rotterdam, NL: 8.81MB/s
    > Download speed from Leaseweb, Haarlem, NL: 24.2MB/s
    > Download speed from Softlayer, Singapore: 3.87MB/s
    > Download speed from Softlayer, Seattle, WA: 12.8MB/s
    > Download speed from Softlayer, San Jose, CA: 12.3MB/s
    > Download speed from Softlayer, Washington, DC: 38.2MB/s
    > I/O speed :  1.3 GB/s
    > 

    So far so good!

    Network-wise we should do quite well @MrGeneral, as we BGP peer with 32 service providers out there. The datacanter we colo in is very well connected and within first mile (or honestly, within the same building) as most major carriers in Columbus, OH.

    Thanked by 2MikePT bersy

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • @vRocket_io said: We've done this for awhile on a per-customer basis [...] but have decided to also offer a quick - click a button, get a decent VPS at a low cost solution where

    At least you have an already established base of profitable services. The "low-end" crowd just tends to be so damned fickle with commodity offerings.

    Good luck, it does sound like an interesting product from a technological standpoint.

    Thanked by 2MikePT bersy
  • The site template you're using, I've seen that many times already. And no lower ram for cheaper price?

  • @Microlinux said:
    Good luck, it does sound like an interesting product from a technological standpoint.

    Thanks :)

    @asgarth said:
    The site template you're using, I've seen that many times already. And no lower ram for cheaper price?

    It's a ThemeForest template. I liked it so much I decided to use it, but nowhere else will you see it more tightly integrated. It's not just the site, but order/billing system, VPS management via Project Fifo, etc. :)

    As for lower ram for less cost - we are working on this, but it'll come in a form of Docker plans, not VPSs. At the current price, going lower in cost is almost impossible due to pure cost of IPv4 addresses, which are as high as $3/mo.

    Once we introduce IPv6 - then yes :)

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • Just my opinion but I would remove the reference to Digital Ocean on your homepage and there's also a mistake with the following: "it'll most likely be out up to you to take care of" under your GET FAMILIAR WITH OUR SUPPORT MODEL part.

    Looks like a pretty neat service :)

    Thanked by 1vRocket_io
  • @sin said:
    Just my opinion but I would remove the reference to Digital Ocean on your homepage and there's also a mistake with the following: "it'll most likely be out up to you to take care of" under your GET FAMILIAR WITH OUR SUPPORT MODEL part.

    Looks like a pretty neat service :)

    Typo fixed and advice taken care of as well :)

    Thank you!

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • In my opinion, the Solaris appeals the customer by zfs, zones, dtrace. Most of the command lines in Solaris sucks, and the package management is a nightmare.

    I can see the value of ZFS though:

    • instant snapshot, thanks to COW
    • high performance
    • dedup, which is effective for digital assets.
    Thanked by 1vimalware

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  • @bookstack said:
    In my opinion, the Solaris appeals the customer by zfs, zones, dtrace. Most of the command lines in Solaris sucks, and the package management is a nightmare.

    I can see the value of ZFS though:

    • instant snapshot, thanks to COW
    • high performance
    • dedup, which is effective for digital assets.

    Tnx!

    We do have instant snapshots right now, and within a month I will re-enable the Project-Fifo feature which lets you backup VPSs live (both full and incremental backups).

    Cool thing about this backup is that you can also, in case of a host dying for any reason, re-hydrate it onto a new host, or utilize it to build your own images/datasets for deployment.

    Any thought about running LX branded Zones with a Linux flavor? I kind-of prefer these as that way you get best of both worlds in a way.

    Thanked by 1vimalware

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • @MrGeneral said:
    Until now, things seem fine :-)

    As in, something happened just now, or - for now - all seems to be working fine? :)

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @vRocket_io said:
    As in, something happened just now, or - for now - all seems to be working fine? :)

    Hehe, no. The server has been running great. Did notice a few issues, which I'll talk about next sunday.

  • Ye, like lx branded Debian zone not showing root drive utilization with df -h? :)

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @vRocket_io said:
    Ye, like lx branded Debian zone not showing root drive utilization with df -h? :)

    Yes, not only that. Run bench.sh script in centos :p, you'll notice what's missing. The uptime command doesn't work as well.

  • @MrGeneral said:
    Yes, not only that. Run bench.sh script in centos :p, you'll notice what's missing. The uptime command doesn't work as well.

    The LX branded zones are still in Beta by Joyent... Within a week we'll have full KVM support as well, in which case you can really run Full Linux as expected.

    I suppose I have to make it a point to better describe that these are "beta" images :-)

    Our bread and butter really is SmartOS, i.e. unix/solaris rather than Linux.

    Thanked by 1MikePT

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @vRocket_io said:
    Our bread and butter really is SmartOS, i.e. unix/solaris rather than Linux.

    Sure thing, completely understood. I am looking forward to test the KVM support! :-)

  • Hi Petar, not sure if it's too late but I'd like to add my $0.02 comment. This is from the perspective of somebody that has used the typical junky oversold shared hosting providers and later migrated to VPS. I've tried DigitalOcean and Linnode, and I currently use Vultr for testing and two RamNode production VPSes for a rather high traffic web site I own. I am by no means a guru, but I can read and follow instructions pretty well, and I've been using Linux for many years.

    Overall, I think your offering is quite compelling. You're obviously passionate about your technology, which is a huge factor in a successful hosting business, so that instills some confidence. The prices look pretty good to me. Also ZFS backed storage is a killer feature in my book. I also like that your platform claims to be more resistant to the "bad neighbor" effect, which frequently caused me major headaches at DigitalOcean and Linnode.

    Suggestions:

    1. On the home page under "A SOLUTION FOR EVERY PROJECT", the three main columns feature "cPanel Shared Hosting", "vRocket Antares [512MB] SmartVPS", and "vRocket Juno [2GB] VPS". This is a bit confusing to me, because it would look as though the Juno "VPS" offering was a different platform than Antares "SmartVPS", while I gather that they are actually just different resource levels on the same SmartVPS platform. Or is Juno just a "VPS" and not "Smart"? :-) So it seems a bit strange to offer two different platforms across three side-by-side columns.
    2. I like the 512MB offering for $4. But I think it might be good to offer another one to compete directly with Vultr's 768MB offering for $5. Or even bump up the minimum to 768MB for $4? :-O :-) 768MB of RAM for $5 or less is the sweet spot for me when I'm testing a configuration or wanting to try out an application that is slightly more RAM intensive.
    3. I get the DIY Support arrangement, which seems fair and in line with what other VPS providers are offering. But the frequent usage of the phrase "for developers" is actually a turn-off for me, because I had a very bad experience with DigitalOcean, which also claims to be "for developers". And I suspect I'm not the only one who had an experience like that. So you might want to take into account the fact that many of your potential users are probably DigitalOcean refugees.

    Questions:

    1. Do you have any fine-print resource usage limits, such as a hard limit on CPU load, disk I/O or any other limits apart from the major advertised hard quotas? In the case of my occasionally high-traffic LEMP VPS, I had occasional problems where the database server together with some not very efficient PHP scripts were creating a sustained load of over 1.00 for anywhere from 15 to 60 minutes at a time, which the VPS provider didn't like. I understand their reasons for having those limits, but it's not like I was mining bit coins or encoding videos either. Just a fluctuating load of web traffic with some unoptimized PHP scripts.
    2. I'm liking the Instant Snapshots feature very much. Does snapshot storage cost extra, or does it just come out of your VPS storage quota? And what about the cost of the upcoming live offsite backups? And does the underlying ZFS storage somehow allow me to do a point-in-time snapshot of a running MariaDB database, or do I still need to use mysqldump?
    3. Is there 24/365 support for legitimate support tickets? I'm talking about stuff like the hypervisor going down or any other kind of fairly urgent support ticket that affects my website availability at 2:00 AM on January 1st?
    4. I'm glad you have hourly pricing on the agenda, that's extremely important for me. Will it be the same for monthly or hourly pricing?

    I think that's about it. Best luck for your new endeavor, it's looking very promising, and I hope to dip my feet in soon.

    Thanked by 1vRocket_io
  • deadbeefdeadbeef Member
    edited September 2015

    Just found the thread, and while I don't have any use for SmartOS (I never wish to have to resort to DTrace :D), I really like Petar's approach to business - I think its one of the most honest/upfront ones I've ever seen - this guy links to his competitors on his pricing page :o

    Good luck!

    Thanked by 2bersy vRocket_io
  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    I have an instance @ vRocket, and things run well. Although, I asked to reinstall to CentOS. Some commands missing there, and some procs, but there'll be a stable CentOS image soon. IO performance is outstanding by the way.

    Thanked by 1vRocket_io
  • @sb56637 Thanks for your awesome comments and suggestions. It's definitely never too late to receive them :)

    Overall, I think your offering is quite compelling. You're obviously passionate about your technology, which is a huge factor in a successful hosting business, so that instills some confidence. The prices look pretty good to me. Also ZFS backed storage is a killer feature in my book. I also like that your platform claims to be more resistant to the "bad neighbor" effect, which frequently caused me major headaches at DigitalOcean and Linnode.

    You read me like a book. vRocket is the outcome of all I love about technology. As for the noisy neighbor issues, here's my approach:

    • We do not over provision (no need, plenty of resources)

    • SmartOS is really smart (their approach to IO congestion for example is quite unique, and it is to increase latency to the disk of a noisy neighbor by just a couple of milliseconds. it turns out it's a ridiculously effective approach which no one feels, but it keeps all in check)

    • As for CPU - some providers, for example, will kill a long running process which is using the CPU (say installing cPanel), even if you are "guaranteed" 1 vCPU. We don't do that. You get what you pay for, and you can because you're guaranteed the performance.

    Suggestions:

    1. On the home page under "A SOLUTION FOR EVERY PROJECT", the three main columns feature "cPanel Shared Hosting", "vRocket Antares [512MB] SmartVPS", and "vRocket Juno [2GB] VPS". This is a bit confusing to me, because it would look as though the Juno "VPS" offering was a different platform than Antares "SmartVPS", while I gather that they are actually just different resource levels on the same SmartVPS platform. Or is Juno just a "VPS" and not "Smart"? :-) So it seems a bit strange to offer two different platforms across three side-by-side columns.

    I agree. It looks ugly and confusing to me as well. I will change it shortly.

    1. I like the 512MB offering for $4. But I think it might be good to offer another one to compete directly with Vultr's 768MB offering for $5. Or even bump up the minimum to 768MB for $4? :-O :-) 768MB of RAM for $5 or less is the sweet spot for me when I'm testing a configuration or wanting to try out an application that is slightly more RAM intensive.

    I'll do either-or. Will decide this weekend, but I do believe you're right - 768MB should be available at a compelling price.

    1. I get the DIY Support arrangement, which seems fair and in line with what other VPS providers are offering. But the frequent usage of the phrase "for developers" is actually a turn-off for me, because I had a very bad experience with DigitalOcean, which also claims to be "for developers". And I suspect I'm not the only one who had an experience like that. So you might want to take into account the fact that many of your potential users are probably DigitalOcean refugees.

    There used to be a really cool VPS hosting company once called SliceHost. Some may remember it. Then RackSpace purchased it and it was history. Their main meme was "for developers" and I loved them so much. My idea was really to resurrect Them in some way, not necessarily copy DigitalOcean - which people either love or hate.

    Also - within just a couple of months I will offer Docker support, so "for developers" will have more meaning than now. I was kind-of counting for the future too when choosing the meme :)

    Questions:

    1. Do you have any fine-print resource usage limits, such as a hard limit on CPU load, disk I/O or any other limits apart from the major advertised hard quotas? In the case of my occasionally high-traffic LEMP VPS, I had occasional problems where the database server together with some not very efficient PHP scripts were creating a sustained load of over 1.00 for anywhere from 15 to 60 minutes at a time, which the VPS provider didn't like. I understand their reasons for having those limits, but it's not like I was mining bit coins or encoding videos either. Just a fluctuating load of web traffic with some unoptimized PHP scripts.

    CPU is limited to what you're promised, as the resources are guaranteed, but you can utilize 100% of it 100% of the time without issues. As for the disk - there are some values that define "weight" based on the size of the plan, but almost never it'll come into play in our setup as per host we have enough SSD cache to fit 100% of customer workloads into it (and a decent amount of host's RAM is also allocated for ZFS which makes it even faster).

    1. I'm liking the Instant Snapshots feature very much. Does snapshot storage cost extra, or does it just come out of your VPS storage quota? And what about the cost of the upcoming live offsite backups? And does the underlying ZFS storage somehow allow me to do a point-in-time snapshot of a running MariaDB database, or do I still need to use mysqldump?

    Snapshots are free as they are really just ZFS snapshots kept right on the host. The way ZFS snapshots work, they only take a couple of KB and that's about it. You can take them at any time, but if you want a 100% application consistent snapshot, you should probably stop the VPS.

    We do have another feature coming soon where you will be able to take a snapshot right from the VPS itself by running a command. So in other words - talk back to the FiFo right from the VPS - which when scrypted may give you what you're looking for.

    As for backups - they'll be quite inexpensive (say $0.05/GB) - and that's counting just utilized space of your VPS, not allocated size. Backups will be ZFS snapshots sent to a LeoFS backed object-storage grid (and replicated at least 2 times). You can then restore VPS from a backup, or say in some super rare event where a whole host would go bad, instead of waiting for a fix, you could restore your backup to a new host from the existing backup right through fifo portal.

    Still finalizing fine details of this.

    1. Is there 24/365 support for legitimate support tickets? I'm talking about stuff like the hypervisor going down or any other kind of fairly urgent support ticket that affects my website availability at 2:00 AM on January 1st?

    Yes - we're always there for anything that's really valid. For example, I noticed this same post you sent to me in a ticket last night, but I assumed it was OK to provide a detailed response today rather than then :)

    1. I'm glad you have hourly pricing on the agenda, that's extremely important for me. Will it be the same for monthly or hourly pricing?

    Yes - same price. Just trying to implement scripts to automatically poll data on your VPS so that we know when it's on so we can bill for it.

    One thing we'll also offer is that if the VPS is OFF - you are ONLY charged for storage. Fair is fair :)

    I think that's about it. Best luck for your new endeavor, it's looking very promising, and I hope to dip my feet in soon.

    Thanks! Hope to see more of your websites on vRocket infrastructure :)

    And also thank you so much for awesome comments, suggestions and questions!

    Petar

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • @deadbeef said:
    Just found the thread, and while I don't have any use for SmartOS (I never wish to have to resort to DTrace :D), I really like Petar's approach to business - I think its one of the most honest/upfront ones I've ever seen - this guy links to his competitors on his pricing page :o

    Good luck!

    Thank you! :)

    Thanked by 1deadbeef

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • @MrGeneral said:
    I have an instance @ vRocket, and things run well. Although, I asked to reinstall to CentOS. Some commands missing there, and some procs, but there'll be a stable CentOS image soon. IO performance is outstanding by the way.

    I checked for you - CentOS 7 is still not avail. It's because of the systemd I believe or something like that.

    Soon we'll offer KVM within a SmartOS Zone so if someone really wants to have a full Linux, or say Windows, they'll be able to do it.

    Sadly it'll cost about $5-6 more as KVM within Zone takes an extra 1GB of RAM to run, per VPS.

    Thanked by 1MikePT

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @vRocket_io said:
    Sadly it'll cost about $5-6 more as KVM within Zone takes an extra 1GB of RAM to run, per VPS.

    Sounds promising!

  • Hi Petar, thanks a lot for the detailed reply!

    vRocket_io said: Will decide this weekend, but I do believe you're right - 768MB should be available at a compelling price.

    Awesome, thanks for listening to feedback and at least considering it!

    vRocket_io said: SliceHost. Some may remember it. Then RackSpace purchased it and it was history. Their main meme was "for developers" and I loved them so much. My idea was really to resurrect Them in some way, not necessarily copy DigitalOcean - which people either love or hate.

    I'm in the latter category. :) Yep, SliceHost was a very cool concept, although the performance:price ratio from modern VPS providers like yourself frankly blows them out of the water. But the "for developers" thing obviously doesn't have anything to do with the actual quality of service you provide, so it's really not a factor in choosing. It's just that with DigitalOcean I had so many major reliability and performance issues at their fault that it made their "developer-focused" line sound more to me like "great for developers, not so much for users", as my website users were pretty much hating me during that timeframe. :-P

    vRocket_io said: Also - within just a couple of months I will offer Docker support, so "for developers" will have more meaning than now.

    Very cool! Any tidbits on how pricing and resource allocation will work for Docker instances? Will we run them inside our VPSes, or have the option to spin them up directly from the control panel, one image per service at low prices?

    Speaking of the control panel, I have a question: I went ahead and signed up with the LowEndBox50 coupon and created a quick test server. I'd now like to destroy that VPS and try a different image. It's not immediately apparent to me how to do this from the control panel. I have to give a reason for cancelling it, and I can choose between immediate or end-of-billing period cancellation. Will my remaining payment credit still remain if I do this? And will I be billed again if I later create another VPS from a different image? I imagine the infrastructure and interface for this will improve with the hourly pricing you'll soon implement.

    vRocket_io said: CPU is limited to what you're promised, as the resources are guaranteed, but you can utilize 100% of it 100% of the time without issues.

    Nice!!! I see the SliceHost inspiration here, which if I remember correctly allowed to buy CPUs and RAM and storage separately, and it was like building a physical machine that you owned and could actually use those components for yourself to their full capabilities.

    vRocket_io said: Snapshots are free as they are really just ZFS snapshots kept right on the host.

    Very cool. And do they persist after I cancel/destroy the VPS I'm currently running? I would find this to be very useful for testing, as I can try a configuration or set up a VPS for an occasional task I need to do, and then destroy it and later spin up the snapshot from time to time if/when I need it.

    vRocket_io said: As for backups - they'll be quite inexpensive (say $0.05/GB) - and that's counting just utilized space of your VPS, not allocated size. Backups will be ZFS snapshots sent to a LeoFS backed object-storage grid (and replicated at least 2 times). You can then restore VPS from a backup, or say in some super rare event where a whole host would go bad, instead of waiting for a fix, you could restore your backup to a new host from the existing backup right through fifo portal.

    Sounds great!

    vRocket_io said: Yes - we're always there for anything that's really valid. For example, I noticed this same post you sent to me in a ticket last night, but I assumed it was OK to provide a detailed response today rather than then :)

    Glad to hear it, and yes, you assumed correctly. :)

    vRocket_io said: One thing we'll also offer is that if the VPS is OFF - you are ONLY charged for storage. Fair is fair :)

    Now this is awesome! Maybe this could be rolled together with persistent snapshots as well, as I mentioned earlier?

    Thanks again for your time and detailed explanations.

    Thanked by 1vRocket_io
  • @sb56637 said:
    Very cool! Any tidbits on how pricing and resource allocation will work for Docker instances? Will we run them inside our VPSes, or have the option to spin them up directly from the control panel, one image per service at low prices?

    The way SmartOS and Joyent do Docker is better than any implementation out there. The whole physical datacenter is one huge Docker host. You simply configure the endpoint to be our datacenter, and deploy from the CLI as you wold if you were on your local machine.

    Each Docker "instance" actually runs on Bare Metal, within a Zone, with full network stack and IPv4 IP address (no ports and other nonsense). Security, Speed, and portability like never before.

    @sb56637 said:
    Speaking of the control panel, I have a question: I went ahead and signed up with the LowEndBox50 coupon and created a quick test server. I'd now like to destroy that VPS and try a different image. It's not immediately apparent to me how to do this from the control panel. I have to give a reason for cancelling it, and I can choose between immediate or end-of-billing period cancellation. Will my remaining payment credit still remain if I do this? And will I be billed again if I later create another VPS from a different image? I imagine the infrastructure and interface for this will improve with the hourly pricing you'll soon implement.

    This is the biggest downside we have now (in addition of not being able to re-deploy with another image without opening a ticket). You click cancel, choose immediately, as soon as we see a ticket we'll cancel it and you'll get credit back to be used when signing up for another one. It's not as simple as one would wish, but we'll get there. Promise.

    @sb56637 said:
    Very cool. And do they persist after I cancel/destroy the VPS I'm currently running? I would find this to be very useful for testing, as I can try a configuration or set up a VPS for an occasional task I need to do, and then destroy it and later spin up the snapshot from time to time if/when I need it.

    Snapshots are there while VPS is there, as your VPS (file-wise) is a ZFS dataset. If VPS is gone, Snapshots are as well, but backups will persist.

    What you want, however, are "templates" and that feature will be enabled soon as well. Allowing you to deploy from one of our images, customize, then save into private templates to deploy from is coming next year.

    Most of these features are available in Project Fifo (our Cloud Orchestrator) - I just had to start somewhere first :) As soon as per-hour billing comes in, most of other features will be enabled as well.

    Tnx!

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • DouteiDoutei Member
    edited September 2015

    https://vrocket.io/faq.php

    The Fifo SmartVPS Portal link on Customer Support section is linking to wrong url, vps.vrocket.io instead of fifo.vrocket.io. :P

    Thanked by 1vRocket_io
  • @Sixell said:
    https://vrocket.io/faq.php

    The Fifo SmartVPS Portal link on Customer Support section is linking to wrong url, vps.vrocket.io instead of fifo.vrocket.io. :P

    Fixed - thanks! :)

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • Very exciting stuff. Really looking forward to the improvements, and you have a mighty fine service already. Nice job Petar!

    Thanked by 1vRocket_io
  • deadbeefdeadbeef Member
    edited September 2015

    @vRocket_io said:
    The way SmartOS and Joyent do Docker is better than any implementation out there. The whole physical datacenter is one huge Docker host. You simply configure the endpoint to be our datacenter, and deploy from the CLI as you wold if you were on your local machine.

    Each Docker "instance" actually runs on Bare Metal, within a Zone, with full network stack and IPv4 IP address (no ports and other nonsense). Security, Speed, and portability like never before.

    How does this work exactly? Suppose I have an account with 2 VPSs (A & B). From my computer, I connect to your Docker daemon and launch a new container from the registry. This container now runs on a Zone inside VPS A or VPS B? Do I choose, or does it get automatically chosen somehow (perhaps Docker Machine style)?

    And what about volumes? Suppose I want a container with a persistent volume. Can I use the -v flag? Where is that storage coming from? One of the VPSs A/B or a sparate pool and billed accordingly?

  • vRocket_iovRocket_io Member
    edited September 2015

    @deadbeef said:
    And what about volumes? Suppose I want a container with a persistent volume. Can I use the -v flag? Where is that storage coming from? One of the VPSs A/B or a sparate pool and billed accordingly?

    This FAQ page from Joyent explains the implementation: https://www.joyent.com/developers/triton-faq#volumes

    Note that were cooking this in our vRocket lab, and as such I do not know the answer, but whatever we come out with will be very similar to what Joyent offers today. Just a lot more affordable ;))

    And as to where does your Docker container run in. Not in A or B, rather in C. In it's own Zone with all resources you choose for it with other docker parameters.

    Thanked by 1deadbeef

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • @vRocket_io said:
    Note that were cooking this in our vRocket lab

    Oh sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you had this up and running, that's why I asked.

  • @deadbeef said:
    Oh sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you had this up and running, that's why I asked.

    No worries. It's coming soon. Playing with it now and loving it :) Containers are the future after all :)

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • So how's the performance of a Linux Docker image running on SmartOS compared to a SmartOS guest running on your infrastructure, or compared to the Ubuntu or CentOS datasets you currently offer in beta running as an LX branded zone?

  • Do you provide private network, available zones?

    My site, powered by Netlify and Let's Encrypt.

  • @sb56637 said:
    So how's the performance of a Linux Docker image running on SmartOS compared to a SmartOS guest running on your infrastructure, or compared to the Ubuntu or CentOS datasets you currently offer in beta running as an LX branded zone?

    They should all be very much identical as they all run on bare metal. SmartOS will be fastest just due to Linux syscall table having to be interpreted, but performance hit there is almost immesurable.

    As for Docker, it will actually run in Linux, not Smart OS - very similar to LX branded zone.

    Founder @ vRocket.io

  • @bookstack said:
    Do you provide private network, available zones?

    Working on adding private vlans within a month or so.

    Founder @ vRocket.io

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