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Privacy aware host? "Host you can trust with your data"
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Privacy aware host? "Host you can trust with your data"

ben78ben78 Member
edited August 2015 in Providers

Hi

What do you guys consider the best way to know if a provider will respect your privacy (data & personal information) or not?

That's not about spamming or other illegal activity, just knowing that a provider will NOT give away easily your personal information or sneak into your files...

I'd believe that cheap hosts don't care too much about private information as they can't afford to go to court or whatever so might be more inclined to give away customers information but is that true?

Obviously the big names probly can be trusted but who can tell...

What are your way of checking if you can trust an host or not?
Would you have some good providers to recommend for a privacy conscious person?

Thanks!

«13

Comments

  • Any legitimate registered company should not give your personal details without a court order.
    Once a court order arrives though, there is no more privacy.

  • @ben78 said:
    Hi

    That's not about spamming or other illegal activity, just knowing that a provider will NOT give away easily your personal information or sneak into your files...

    Easily or not, almost all will give away info if requested by a court or something.

    I'd believe that cheap hosts don't care too much about private information as they can't afford to go to court or whatever so might be more inclined to give away customers information but is that true?

    Depends, @Cocui doesn't seem he'll falter away in such a case. Or so he claims.

    But then again how do you know that a big, expensive host will risk his reputation for a small fry?

    Obviously the big names probly can be trusted but who can tell...

    What are your way of checking if you can trust an host or not?
    Would you have some good providers to recommend for a privacy conscious person?

    Thanks!

    Well, if you have stuff that doesn't agree with the TOS you've signed, then you have broken the trust first thus deserve what's coming your way.

    If not, all hosts will break down under the right amount of pressure.

    In cases without a court order, I don't think any "adult" company which has ethics will give your personal info or sneak on your files.

    If one doesn't have ethics, whether they're a big company or small one, they will do anything and there's nothing you can do.

    Thanked by 1ben78
  • DillybobDillybob Member
    edited August 2015

    Nomad said: If one doesn't have ethics, whether they're a big company or small one, they will do anything and there's nothing you can do.

    There's always encryption, but that's only 1 layer of security. (If you're really concerned over your data) on a server. Although, I'll take a reputable host over encrypting my files any day.

    Thanked by 1ben78
  • @Dillybob said:
    You can encrypt stuff, but that's only 1 layer of security. (If you're really concerned over your data) on a server. Although, I'll take a reputable host over encryption any fucking day of the week.

    Sure, but I didn't mean it like that. I meant for prying eyes, data is there whenever they want to. Encrypted or not you can't stop them.

    And a cheap host can also be reputable. The price tag doesn't make a company(?) more trusted. ;)

    Thanked by 1ben78
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    If you put your data on the internet, it is public, stop hoping otherwise.

    Thanked by 3rokok ben78 netomx
  • DillybobDillybob Member
    edited August 2015

    @Nomad said:
    And a cheap host can also be reputable. The price tag doesn't make a company(?) more trusted. ;)

    Yeah, even worse is if there is a employee in the interim that starts to really grow hate upon the company. Happens a lot in the gaming industry as well. How some gameserver source code files get released too. Which sucks because no matter what the company did to secure files they still get fucked.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Dillybob said: Which sucks because no matter what the company did to secure files they still get fucked.

    That is how internet and IT works, even without a rogue employee. If the files wont get stolen, or the source code, someone will reverse engineer it, if the game is popular enough. Think of Lineage 2 and WoW.

  • rds100 said: Once a court order arrives though, there is no more privacy.

    Nomad said: Easily or not, almost all will give away info if requested by a court or something.

    That's fine - they operate under some juridiction's law they have to obey. But some companies also give info even if not requested by a court... I guess there is no easy way to know before hand...

    Nomad said: But then again how do you know that a big, expensive host will risk his reputation for a small fry?

    You are right on that. They may not care about a small customer. But they might loose their reputation if they give away personal info of a "small fry": how come would a big company trust them if they don't respect a small customer?

    Nomad said: If one doesn't have ethics, whether they're a big company or small one, they will do anything and there's nothing you can do.

    Right. I probably didn't consider that enough. But it's hard to know one's ethics!

    Dillybob said: There's always encryption, but that's only 1 layer of security. (If you're really concerned over your data) on a server. Although, I'll take a reputable host over encrypting my files any day.

    Yeah, any reputable host is probably the best way to go. Encryption is great but on a VPS it's kinda pointless...

    Maounique said: If you put your data on the internet, it is public, stop hoping otherwise.

    Hum. Privacy = offline?

    Thanks for the inputs!

  • DillybobDillybob Member
    edited August 2015

    Maounique said: Think of Lineage 2 and WoW.

    Were these reverse engineered though, or was the source leaked from a rogue? I cannot imagine the time it would take, although I don't have the smarts in reverse engineering, but just by how complex their game is.. It would seem to me, it would most likely be a rogue leak, but I could be wrong

  • Privacy does not exist. You are not going to find privacy on the internet FACT

    Thanked by 1ben78
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Dillybob said: Were these reverse engineered though, or was the source leaked from a rogue? I cannot imagine the time it would take, although I don't have the smarts in reverse engineering, but just by how complex their game is.. It would seem to me, it would most likely be a rogue leak, but I could be wrong

    L2 is a highly addictive game where was not uncommon for hundreds of thousands of people to play 15 hours a day, some were even dying in Korea.
    It was both leaked and reverse engineered.
    Wow was reverse engineered, but do not know if it was leaked, I didnt play it more than half an hour, couldnt stand the graphics.

    ben78 said: Hum. Privacy = offline?

    No, hospitals, governments, various HR departments leak data too.

    Thanked by 1ben78
  • ben78 said: But some companies also give info even if not requested by a court... I guess there is no easy way to know before hand...

    In most countries you don't need a court order for customer data - Here in Austria, like in most of the EU, state and federal (and even normal) police (LKA, .BK) can request customer data under our ECG law set without a court ever looking at it.

    Technically copies of data would require no order either but they often get one anyway to cover judicial problems.

    Thanked by 1ben78
  • Get a .is domain and a dedicated server in Iceland on Germany with a company that was founded with more than $1.

    Thanked by 1ben78
  • ben78ben78 Member
    edited August 2015

    Maounique said: various HR departments leak data too.

    You're right, @Maounique.

    So assuming you have a strong enough adversary you have no privacy. Nice...

    William said: In most countries you don't need a court order for customer data - Here in Austria, like in most of the EU, state and federal (and even normal) police (LKA, .BK) can request customer data under our ECG law set without a court ever looking at it.

    Technically copies of data would require no order either but they often get one anyway to cover judicial problems.

    Thanks, didn't know that... And I guest most companies won't ask for a court order, anyway...

    4n0nx said: Iceland on Germany with a company that was founded with more than $1.

    Germany has strong (or at least basic - after reading Wiliam!) privacy law? Nice to read!

  • @Maounique said:

    Hmm, interesting.

    @4n0nx said:
    Get a .is domain and a dedicated server in Iceland on Germany with a company that was founded with more than $1.

    Only problem with that is the latency lag :(

  • GM2015GM2015 Member
    edited August 2015

    You're that guy who wanted private emails, yet no suggestion was good enough. There is privacy, but you have to work for it. http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/59986/offshore-email-host-providers/p1

    heartbleed said: Privacy does not exist. You are not going to find privacy on the internet FACT

    If it's private files you're worried about (images, passwords, videos, films, games, etc) then why don't you encrypt them and store them at home, even at cloud storage services?

    Even microsoft can't tell what's in your 7z encrypted zipped files.

    You have to make a compromise between privacy, encryption and convenience. You obviously can't watch encrypted movies anywhere without decrypting them first.

    The best private host is yourself. Host your stuff on a DMZ-d server at home (like a raspberry pi/whatever) and you get to choose what port you allow the outside to communicate your home network with. obviously, you won't have a DC connection at home.

    I've learnt a lot from this guy on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD4EOyXKjfDUhCI6jlOZZYQ . Not everyone learns IT at college, you naysayers.

    ben78 said: Hi What do you guys consider the best way to know if a provider will respect your privacy (data & personal information) or not? That's not about spamming or other illegal activity, just knowing that a provider will NOT give away easily your personal information or sneak into your files... I'd believe that cheap hosts don't care too much about private information as they can't afford to go to court or whatever so might be more inclined to give away customers information but is that true? Obviously the big names probly can be trusted but who can tell... What are your way of checking if you can trust an host or not? Would you have some good providers to recommend for a privacy conscious person?

  • Dillybob said: Only problem with that is the latency lag :(

    o? I get 50ms from Germany to isnic.is

  • Maounique said: If you put your data on the internet, it is public, stop hoping otherwise.

    That doesn't make any sense at all. So when you pay a host with a credit card you think your account information is public? And you're OK with that!!!!!!!

  • GM2015 said: I've learnt a lot from this guy on youtube:

    I think he explained VPN with "if anyone tries to hack your VPN encrypted connection, your route to the destination will change".............that's not true at all right?

  • ben78ben78 Member
    edited August 2015

    GM2015 said: The best private host is yourself.

    Hosting at home is good if you can make the setup secure enough. The problem is that your residential IP will be available for the world to see, making that way of hosting not that private. If you want to use a reverse proxy/VPN to "hide" your own IP then you have to trust the provider to somewhat respect your privacy...

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited August 2015

    GM2015 said: Even microsoft can't tell what's in your 7z encrypted zipped files.

    They can get a log with keys pressed and the 7z file, though. Or use some flaw in the code/design/cryptography implementation.

  • 4n0nx said: "if anyone tries to hack your VPN encrypted connection, your route to the destination will change".............that's not true at all right?

    Well the guy (that "tries to hack your VPN encrypted connection" gets root on your computer/router he can change the route for sure...

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited August 2015

    Ole_Juul said: That doesn't make any sense at all. So when you pay a host with a credit card you think your account information is public? And you're OK with that!!!!!!!

    It does make sense, you dont even have to pay something over internet, people bug POSes at big retail chains, hotels, ATMs, etc and sell the data. If we consider it was not directly fro the bank or phishing sites.
    It is not a matter of being OK with that or not, it is a fact of life, you can disagree with reality, but this will not make you safer, just insane.

  • GM2015GM2015 Member
    edited August 2015

    I've not said his perfect, just that I've learned a lot from him. His classes for linux beginners are good enough. I haven't watched all his videos, probs only 15-20 I think.

    4n0nx said: I think he explained VPN with "if anyone tries to hack your VPN encrypted connection, your route to the destination will change".............that's not true at all right?

    I didn't claim to be an expert, obviously more experienced people can setup vpns all day long to hide origin server IPs. I haven't done that yet. I only used linux for the last couple of months.

    ben78 said: Hosting at home is good if you can make the setup secure enough. The problem is that your residential IP will be available for the world to see, making that way of hosting not that private. If you want to use a reverse proxy/VPN to "hide" your own IP then you have to trust the provider to somewhat respect your privacy...

    I have a lot of respect for what you say usually, since I share a lot of your opinion about religion/governments.

    Perhaps they can do that. You'd have to be under review for them to do that I think, or they really need to have some nasty system to do that automatically. In the latter case, Microsoft is not to be trusted at all.

    Maounique said: They can get a log with keys pressed and the 7z file, though. Or use some flaw in the code.

    Edited for conspirational reasons. Can't write gremmerz or gremlins be in my internats.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    GM2015 said: In the latter case, Microsoft is not to be trusted at all.

    Closed source cannot be trusted at all, even the firmware of your NIC can spy on you if they really want it, even open source cannot be trusted without scrutiny, and even then there are flaws which can be exploited.
    This brings us back tot he issue of private data. In theory, there is no such thing, in practice, well, depends on adversary, you can be reasonably certain it is private if you know what you are doing and nobody big is after you.

    Thanked by 1GM2015
  • @Ole_Juul said:

    Let's stop and think how many companies had their customer data stolen/leaked up till now.
    ...

    Once anything leaves you, they are not private anymore. They can be public on the whim of a third party. Whether it be a hacker, a stupid mistake or an angry worker.

    Heck, you don't even have to share it. Your CC company might be hacked for it to be public. So maybe i'ld better say Once anything leaves your brain, they are no longer private.

    @ben78 said:

    Somehow, along the way, you HAVE TO trust someone. And pray they're the right one.

    No one can guarantee 100% privacy.

    You can try hiding your info by hiding behind "7 layers of proxy", encryption and various other methods.

    You can make it harder for people, but this way or that way in the end it is as

    @Maounique said:
    If you put your data on the internet, it is public, stop hoping otherwise.

    Thanked by 2Maounique ben78
  • ben78ben78 Member
    edited August 2015

    Nomad said: Somehow, along the way, you HAVE TO trust someone. And pray they're the right one.

    No one can guarantee 100% privacy.

    You can try hiding your info by hiding behind "7 layers of proxy", encryption and various other methods.

    You can make it harder for people, but this way or that way in the end it is as

    Makes sense. So criminals probably have the knowledge and money to have some high level of privacy but the average Joe that just does want his personal data to be somewhat private have no other alternative than

    pray they're the right one.

    Then I'll probably pick the provider randomly and pray :)

    It's probably the problem of our times. You'd like privacy? Realize that you don't really need it and forget about it - sounds like fun...

  • Agreed. Stop looking for privacy paradise and start to see how the world works.

    No one is going to jail for you. That really needs to be repeated many times I feel.

    No company will ignore a local court order. No one will ignore a national security letter.

    No one is immune from the facts of life. Reality is sometimes hard to grasp I do admit.

  • BG32BG32 Member

    @letmember [insert own company here]

  • heartbleed said: No company will ignore a local court order. No one will ignore a national security letter.

    No one is immune from the facts of life. Reality is sometimes hard to grasp I do admit.

    I have no problem with a company respecting a local court order or a national security letter. I'd just like to know that I did my best to keep my site and email somewhat private - or at least a bit more than using some crappy free service...

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