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    Vultr suspended NetworkPanda's services without prior notifications
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    Vultr suspended NetworkPanda's services without prior notifications

    Vultr, NetworkPanda's upstream provider for NY3, GER, NLA and UK locations suspended the servers they had rent from them, because one of they shared hosting customers had uploaded content (gambling related content) that violated their (Vultr-Choopa's) terms of service. NetworkPanda try constantly to get a reply from Vultr (Choopa), but there is no reply from them.

    The case is instructive for everyone who uses Vultr to host shared hosting services.

    Details (from http://networkpanda.com/status.php):


    NY3, GER, NLA and UK locations outage

    We apologize for any inconvenience this issue causes to you. Even though the situation is caused by one of our upstream network providers, we do anything possible from our end to resolve it as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience.

    More details:

    Our upstream provider for these locations (Choopa-Vultr) suspended the servers we had rent from them, because one of our shared hosting customers had uploaded content (gambling related content) that violated their (Choopa's) terms of service.

    Unfortunately, they do not reply to us since the suspension, no matter how many messages we have sent to them, asking urgently to restore the service so that we transfer the data to other servers. Also, the server that was holding the account backups was hosted in their network, which means that we do not have access to the backups either.

    We try constantly to get a reply from Choopa and have the affected servers reactivated, but there is no reply from them.

    Please be assured that we will keep trying to get a response from them and regain access to the data as soon as possible.

    We have also taken the decision to provide with 1 year of free service all of our affected customers, as a compensation for this unfortunate situation. If you are affected by this, please submit a ticket to our billing department and we will add 12 months to your affected accounts.

    Also, if you have a backup of your sites, please feel free to send it to us, or provide a link to download it, and we will restore it immediately.

    Thank you for your patience and understanding while we do our best to resolve the issue as soon as possible.


    «1

    Comments

    • WHTWHT Member

      Since when in europe is banned casino content? Sorry for your case and I hope someone will reply you. There are many good reviews about vultr and am sure you will get your servers again.

      Thanked by 1asf
    • Glad to hear that they are handling abuse properly.

      Thanked by 1GIANT_CRAB
    • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

      WHT said: Since when in europe is banned casino content?

      Vultr is an US company. The US ban on gambling without (US) license also explicitely applies to foreign servers owned by an US company.

    • WHT said: Since when in europe is banned casino content?

      Some countries (including ours) ban gambling sites without license. However ISPs are required to block the access to such sites, i don't think there is a problem with hosting such a website. It just shouldn't be accessible within the country if it is in the ban list.

      Thanked by 1WHT

      -

    • Italy bans gambling sites.

      Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

    • edited August 2015

      All backups where also stored with Vultr.

      Where is @kcaj with the egg basket image

      Thanked by 1Makenai

      Different.

    • Maounique said: Italy bans gambling sites.

      Does it ban the access to gambling sites, or hosting such sites?

      -

    • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

      I am willing to bet this was not the first offence or request.

      Had enough of the scams on lowendbox, lowendtalk is now being infiltrated by corruption so I have chosen to make an low end exit #lexit for now - you can find me HERE

    • sinsin Member
      edited August 2015

      AnthonySmith said: I am willing to bet this was not the first offence or request.

      Yeah I'm not sure what's going on with this and I'm curious to hear the other side or more details because I've had nothing but good experiences with VULTR's support.

      I just can't imagine them suspending without sending any notices or details and then just not replying either.

    • rm_rm_ Member
      edited August 2015

      The pressing question here is who the fuck is "NetworkPanda" and why should we care.

    • BG32BG32 Member

      Vultr are serious with abuse and misuse

      Thanked by (44)

    • TinyTunnel_Tom said: All backups where also stored with Vultr.

      As great as I think Vultr is, this is a pretty bad idea. I don't do it myself for my personal shit, I certainly wouldn't expect any reputable business to be naive enough to be storing content and backups with the same provider.

      rds100 said: Does it ban the access to gambling sites, or hosting such sites?

      I don't know what the legal stance on this is - but in the case of it being a "ban on access to gambling sites", is this something that Vultr could reliably enforce/check upon?

      The bottom line is that the Vultr AUP prohibits this.

      USE OF SERVICES

      The Services are designed to enable you and your end users to share files with others via the Internet. You agree to use the Services (and to require your users to use the Services) only to post files and material that is proper and, when applicable, related to the particular Service. By way of example, and not as a limitation, you agree that when you (or your end users are) using a Service, you (and your end users) will not:

      A. Use the Service in connection with unlawful contests, lotteries, or gambling; pyramid schemes, chain letters, junk email, spamming or any duplicative or unsolicited messages (commercial or otherwise).

      Sounds like an unfortunate situation for both parties.

    • expect any reputable business

      Yeah here's the thing. If you're saving a few dollars a month for these kind of hosts, here's the kind of problems you encounter. It's simply not worth it.

      Totally depends on what you're doing of course. I see NetworkPanda is also a webhost. When it turns into a game of Russian dolls of whether a new provider is economical inside another (relatively) small provider, they're not going be stable IMHO. My 2 cents after thinking about it for 20 seconds.

    • rm_rm_ Member
      edited August 2015
    • rds100 said: Does it ban the access to gambling sites, or hosting such sites?

      From what I know, both.

      Thanked by 1rds100

      Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

    • not being funny but Vultr should have given NetworkPanda 24 hours to sort it out before suspending and should have been the server in question not the whole network (servers).

      Blesta.Store - Blesta specialists
      Atlanical - Social Network Management

    • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

      Licensecart said: not being funny but Vultr should have given NetworkPanda 24 hours to sort it out before suspending and should have been the server in question not the whole network (servers).

      That's why I suspect this was not the first occurrence

      Thanked by 1Licensecart

      Had enough of the scams on lowendbox, lowendtalk is now being infiltrated by corruption so I have chosen to make an low end exit #lexit for now - you can find me HERE

    • Uhm..

      Thanked by 1netomx
    • Good thing is that we don't even need to hear the other side of the story. Panda admitted to having gambling related material on their servers and its clearly against Vultr's ToS.

      I don't see the problem here.

      If there is a problem, it exists because Panda did not choose an appropriate host for offering cheap shared hosting. Panda should have done more research and picked a host that doesn't care about abuse or is lenient about it or who forwards the abuse reports directly to them.

    • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

      rds100 said: Some countries (including ours) ban gambling sites without license. However ISPs are required to block the access to such sites, i don't think there is a problem with hosting such a website. It just shouldn't be accessible within the country if it is in the ban list.

      Most EU countries ban foreign casino sites/gambling without a local license (like, in Austria, only bet2day (or some other site, can't remember exactly) is allowed to operate and is 50%+ state owned) - It's actually one of the few things that is allowed to be banned even from another EU country without violationg EU contracts (unified/single market would else allow a Casino in i.e. Germany to operate with Austrian customers without an Austrian license). Censorship of said sites is rare though, i can access foreign casinos fine in Austria (and if they have a suitable payment method and don't ban Austria from sign-up i can also gamble there) - Though gambling there, and the pay out, constitute 2 different crimes and technically the money won would be confiscated entirely by the government (if they ever find out, which again is pretty rare/complicated).

    • Today Networkpanda changed terms & conditions.

      They added the following line at the "unacceptable content" part:

      Gambling related sites (casino, poker etc.)

      Source: http://networkpanda.com/terms.php


      Proof that terms from 23. March 2015 did not include that line: https://web.archive.org/web/20150323041845/https://networkpanda.com/terms.php

      So no old customer with a Networkpanda hosted account and a link to any gambling site on his website violated terms. A retroactively violation is impossible. If these websites are no longer accepted, there is no way around of full refund of funds.

      Thanked by 1Licensecart
    • trvztrvz Member
      edited August 2015

      Another point which keeps me taking Networkpanda not at all serious: you have to submit a ticket if you're affected as a customer. That data is available to the company, so they are in fact able to apply the 12 months free service extension without customer intervention.

      I'm happy to see @tom566's try at starting a wrongful Vultr bash thread didn't took off.

    • So.. NetworkPanda is the author of its own misfortune by not initially matching his ToS to reflect the ToS requirements of his upstream provider.

      This thread can be closed then. Just like his Vultr account.

    • perennateperennate Member, Provider
      edited August 2015

      Vultr's terms of service:

      Use the Service in connection with unlawful contests, lotteries, or gambling

      NetworkPanda's terms of service:

      All services provided by “NetworkPanda” may be used for lawful purposes only.

      Also prohibited are sites that promote any illegal activity or present content that may be damaging to our servers or any other server on the internet.

      Note how "unlawful contests, lotteries, or gambling" is covered under "illegal activity". Keep trying kids...

      If Vultr really did suspend all of their servers for one abuse case and refused to give them a chance to remove the website, and also refused to provide the disk images so that services could be restored elsewhere, that's pretty bad. Just think, you could lose your account if one of your users links to a torrent on your website, maybe in a blog post comment. Anyway there's probably more to it as @AnthonySmith said.

      Edit: that said, I'd still avoid signing up with a company who would refuse to provide disk image even for a customer who has failed to handle abuse complaints. When you can expend little effort to avoid causing data loss, you should help. But it's possible NetworkPanda was asking only for unsuspension, and not for disk content.

      Thanked by 1Licensecart
    • perennateperennate Member, Provider
      edited August 2015

      trvz said: Another point which keeps me taking Networkpanda not at all serious: you have to submit a ticket if you're affected as a customer. That data is available to the company, so they are in fact able to apply the 12 months free service extension without customer intervention.

      Are you saying that the hosting account is completely broken unless you open a ticket (i.e. you can't restore from backup since it's still directing to the old panel)?

      Otherwise, if they did give customers new panel accounts or whatever and you're just talking about having to open a ticket to get the credit, this is typical business operation; RamNode, OVH, SingleHop, etc. all do it that way where customer needs to open ticket, whether it's for SLA or if there's no SLA but they're anyway offering credit for some issue, you rarely see it done automatically.

      Also speaking of there not being an SLA, presumably there wasn't one here? Then the fact that they're offering a full year of free service as a result of the problem puts them in a positive light. So it's strange that you're taking that and trying to spin it in the other direction.

    • Dumb is a sickness.

    • jarjar Provider

      Going to have to agree it sounds like we're not getting the whole story. What hosting company wouldn't understand that customers often have their own customers and give them 24h to resolve issues like this?

      I doubt that vultr shuts off instantly at the first sign of a minor violation (read: not child porn) without any prior notice or chance for appeal. I could be wrong, but I'd like to think better of anyone than to do that.

      Thanked by 2mpkossen sin
    • I dont think VULTR would mind not being considered a good host for 3rd world low-end shared hosting.

    • miskkiemiskkie Member
      edited August 2015

      Been with networkpanda for a couple years. Prior to this I'd rate then pretty good. Cheap, nice performance and the support actually answers and has helped me on some things on a few occasions I know many webhosts just wouldn't.

      That said, they are complete dummies with the backups it seems. They have servers on other providers, why not have copies of the backups on another host?!

      They say Vultr suspended their whole account just 2 minutes after giving notice, not sure if thats actually the case. Maybe they didn't notice it till 2 minutes prior but Vultr would be pretty bad if they did that. Also they should provide them backups. Will see what happens.

      Latest from networkpanda:

      Unfortunately, our upstream provider keeps ignoring for 24 hours all of our requests to reactivate our servers in the affected locations, or at least give us access to the backup server which would allow us to recover the data and transfer the accounts elsewhere. It seems that their intention was to cause us a complete data loss on the servers that we had with them.

      Also:

      Steps that we have taken to prevent this issue from occurring again in the future

      We created a new team, that will be checking all new domains (primary and addon) that will be created on our servers, for violations of the terms of service. Any sites that are not compliant with these terms, will be removed. With this measure, we will be preventing any suspensions or disconnections of our servers from our upstream network providers.
      Additionally, we have restructured our backup plan and network and ordered new backup servers that will be hosted in datacenters and network providers completely separate from our main hosting network.

    • WHTWHT Member

      @miskkie said:
      Been with networkpanda for a couple years.

      You have joined only to post a review about the panda crap?

      Very trusted:
      About
      Username miskkie Joined 8:51AM Visits 1

    • miskkiemiskkie Member
      edited August 2015

      Wasn't much talk about it elsewhere.
      Not like I am praising them lol. Really dumb way they've done their backups and I'm probably moving my sites elsewhere once I find a suitable host.

    • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

      miskkie said: probably moving

      Why probably?

      Genuine question.

      Had enough of the scams on lowendbox, lowendtalk is now being infiltrated by corruption so I have chosen to make an low end exit #lexit for now - you can find me HERE

    • XiNiXXiNiX Member, Provider

      Whatever be the case, atleast let Panda have his backups.
      Why should the innocent clients suffer ?

      XiNiX™ InfoTech Pvt. Ltd. : Virtual & Dedicated Servers in US / EU & India
      Our Very Limited Shared / VPS / Cloud & Dedicated , Promotional Offers > [ Special Offers ]

    • LeeLee Member

      XiNiX said: Why should the innocent clients suffer

      Vultr -> Vultr Client || Vultr Client Clients

      In theory I agree however Vultr are not responsible for the clients of a client, their feelings, hardships, concerns and so on.

      Thanked by 1getvps

      It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt

    • XiNiXXiNiX Member, Provider
      edited August 2015

      @Lee said:

      Its not about who is responsible.

      I think is a good practice to let your client ( Network Panda ) have a backup and move, provided its not a repeated offence.

      Moreover, The Backup Server has done no harm and it has been paid as well, Why deny atleast a copy of his backups ?

      XiNiX™ InfoTech Pvt. Ltd. : Virtual & Dedicated Servers in US / EU & India
      Our Very Limited Shared / VPS / Cloud & Dedicated , Promotional Offers > [ Special Offers ]

    • LeeLee Member

      XiNiX said: Why deny atleast a copy of his backups ?

      I don't know, all we are seeing from all this are the claims from the host via announcements which may be true or may not. Personally I do not believe it's as simple as the host is making out.

      Thanked by 1AnthonySmith

      It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt

    • @AnthonySmith said:
      Genuine question.

      Moving would take effort

      Favourite host in general: Ramnode (affiliate link)
      Favourite host for hourly billing/custom ISOs: Vultr ($50 free credit for new accounts, affiliate link)

    • miskkiemiskkie Member
      edited August 2015

      @AnthonySmith said:
      Why probably?

      Genuine question.

      I'm lazy to set up somewhere else, could get 12months extra free, price/performance has been good and they've said they'll change things so something like this basically couldn't happen anymore.

      @Lee said:
      I don't know, all we are seeing from all this are the claims from the host via announcements which may be true or may not. Personally I do not believe it's as simple as the host is making out.

      This is basically what I'm thinking. Vultr might've been little shitty or NetworkPanda might be overly simplifying/flat out lying about how things went. I'll wait and hopefully see which.

    • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

      fair enough I suppose a free year for some down time is good if what you have is not important.

      Had enough of the scams on lowendbox, lowendtalk is now being infiltrated by corruption so I have chosen to make an low end exit #lexit for now - you can find me HERE

    • MaouniqueMaounique Member
      edited August 2015

      If it was a repeat offense, there was a downtime before.
      Like, you have some gambling material (does not say casino or bookie shop iirc), you get a warning. You have it once more, you get suspended. At that stage you can talk to the host reach an agreement, let them get their backups is humane, even if you do not believe they will be able to comply with your rules, it is true they are not obligated to do this, but it is pretty shitty to pull the plug like this, without a suspension first, and if there was a suspension, people would have noticed.
      TL;DR OK, Vultr might have been right legally, but not morally, IMO. Could have at least ask for some compensation for the extra work they did due to the incident and give those people their backups, if this is true.

      Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

    • @DaveA is such a nice guy. I cannot imagine that Vultr did not do their best to help them out.

      "Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.", Stephen Hawking, 2017. Join the Amitz party here.

    • J1021J1021 Member
      edited August 2015

      @Amitz said:
      DaveA is such a nice guy. I cannot imagine that Vultr did not do their best to help them out.

      Do you want an account credit?

      Thanked by 3Amitz getvps alexvolk
    • AmitzAmitz Member
      edited August 2015

      @kcaj said:
      Do you want an account credit?

      I am sure that you can get me some, but I still have around $300 in credit that I will not use. However - thank you, Dave!

      P.S.: You logged in as kcaj again. You have to be more careful! ;-)

      Thanked by 2lazyt vimalware

      "Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.", Stephen Hawking, 2017. Join the Amitz party here.

    • TO VULTR --- if you are listening. Can you just PLEASE give Network Panda their backups?

      I am a customer with website and emails in one of their machines.

      Thanked by 1miskkie
    • I like that... naming yourself 'goodsamaritan' to try and get sympathy or something..

      better luck with your next host, I'd recommend not continuing on with NetworkPanda.

    • sinsin Member

      goodsamaritan said: TO VULTR --- if you are listening. Can you just PLEASE give Network Panda their backups?

      It's a long shot but you could try contacting VULTR yourself and seeing if there's anything they can do for you. ALWAYS keep your own backups and have a good backup plan in place especially if your data is that important to you. I hope you end up getting your data back.

      NetworkPanda is almost certainly not giving you or their other customers the full story.

    • perennateperennate Member, Provider
      edited August 2015

      sin said: It's a long shot but you could try contacting VULTR yourself and seeing if there's anything they can do for you.

      If Vultr isn't giving NetworkPanda the backups, they're certainly not going to give it to him or her, there's no way for them to verify ownership of the data without violating privacy policy.

      It might not be the full story, but it does look like NetworkPanda asked for backups and Vultr refused, regardless of what abuse happened that isn't a good response.

      Thanked by 1Maounique
    • sin said: It's a long shot but you could try contacting VULTR yourself and seeing if there's anything they can do for you.

      Yeh, Vultr is going to give out another customers data to a complete stranger via their ticket system.

      Reality check please.

    • sinsin Member
      edited August 2015

      kcaj said: Yeh, Vultr is going to give out another customers data to a complete stranger via their ticket system.

      Yeah that's why I said it was a long shot, don't know what else to tell him besides take this as a lesson learned and keep his own backups.

    • I didn't realize Vultr did reseller accounts.

      Have I mentioned how much I hate auto correct recently?

    This discussion has been closed.