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Peering with China options
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Peering with China options

Hi,

is there a price-sensitive option to Softlayer in Asia? I mean any way to get good connections to China Telecom without paying crazy money?

Regards
bryce

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Comments

  • Get a chinese friend who uses that ISP.

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  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    That would be pretty much impossible. China telecoms is very expensive at wholesale.

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  • @bryce: Try out QuadraNet and get their Asia optimized bandwidth. They have China Unicom and Telecom.

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    bryce said: is there a price-sensitive option to Softlayer in Asia? I mean any way to get good connections to China Telecom without paying crazy money?

    in US? Sure, Quadranet, Psychz etc.

    In Asia? Haha, god no, either you suck it up and pay the 50$/Mbit or your traffic goes over the congested HK ports or the (often also congested) US route.

    Some South Korean ISPs like KT (olehcloud for VPS, requires EU/US CC and ID) have pretty good ping but the speed is pretty random especially at peak times.

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  • dediservedediserve Member, Provider

    We have peering with China Mobile and most regional providers in our Hong Kong cloud, and are adding an optional peered network with China Telecom / unicom at the moment that will be a small premium charge per VM...

    As has been said, the only option in the region is 'suck it up' and pay the crazy price per Mbps

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    Yup. Even large commit wholesale rates are unbelievably expensive. There is a reason all the 'retailers' charge a lot.

    Though if you really need China BW, you can consider a DC in China. Domestic BW is far more reasonable price wise.

  • halczyhalczy Member
    edited August 2015

    HostHatch, HostUS, and Hostwithlinux offer SL Hong Kong location at pretty reasonable price. I have a VPS with HostHatch at that location, pretty solid so far.

    Also, see if you can get a VPS that uses twtelecom, XO communication, or Cox. Their connection with China Telecom is not congested yet.

    Of course, if you can get a ICP license or don't need port 80 enabled, you can go with AliCloud or Tencent Cloud at around $5/month. The good thing is China's domestic network is almost never congested.

    China Telecom recently allowed their customers to upgrade to 100Mbps (200Mbps or 1Gbps in Shanghai) for a small one-time fee. And coincidentally, their international network got more congested. They said that they are working on the congestion issue by building new submarine cable to the US. Their ETA is 2017 though.

  • Home users in China have unmetered bandwidth.

  • halczy said: Of course, if you can get a ICP license or don't need port 80 enabled, you can go with AliCloud or Tencent Cloud at around $5/month. The good thing is China's domestic network is almost never congested.

    Says who? Often the congestion is within China itself.

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  • I like my server because it is peered with China Telecom and PCCW. The speed back to where I am (Toronto) is pretty decent.


    Apart from that, it is only because I have a friend with a gigabit connection in his apartment over there :)

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    halczy said: They said that they are working on the congestion issue by building new submarine cable to the US. Their ETA is 2017 though.

    Just as mental image of how populated China is and why the routes to US are congested 24/7:

    The 2 Chinese top carriers (Telecom and Unicom, former Netcom) have a total of 100 million+ customers (very low estimate, 300m+ are much more likely), now speeds vary but if we assume 1Mbit national per customer (which reasonably considers the low EVDO mobile speeds as well as the rare 100Mbit+ connection as well as time differences in usage etc.) and of that just measly 1% international transit (10Kbit) you still get a BW usage of 1 Tbit which requires 10 waves on a submarine cable (@ 100GE) to just get the traffic out of (or rather into) China - There is currently simply a limit of how much BW you can push through a single wavelenght (100G market availability, 200G testing) AND even with new cable systems (which are already guaranteed to be full within few months after installation @~6Tbit capacity) and the Chinese buying ANY available transport capacity you can't just go get 10(+) x 100GE at a random Tier1 in LAX (or anywhere else for that matter), not even Level3 can deliver that capacity. The Chinese networks by now singlehandedly outscale entire continents and even the largest carriers (TI Sparkle, Level3, Cogent etc).

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  • halczyhalczy Member
    edited August 2015

    @concerto49 said:
    Says who? Often the congestion is within China itself.

    Any example? CT and CU's network is pretty solid within China itself. Although, there are a bunch of second tier ISPs like Greatwall Broadband that resell CT/CU's bandwidth and they are usually oversubscribed. Is that the congestion you are talking about?

    @William said:

    I'm curious as where did you get the 6Tbits figure? If that's their added capacity in 2017, then it looks like it's not gonna solve the congestion issue. I guess to make matter even worse, CT is rolling out 1Gbps home internet in most tier 1 cities next year.

  • belinikbelinik Member
    edited August 2015

    concerto49 said: Says who? Often the congestion is within China itself.

    very rarely to see congestion within china, large or small website. rare to see game ping higher then 60ms in china(even in bgp datacentre), and most of their free or paid cloud solution can max my 100mbit connection even in peak times.

    Their congestion is mostly going out of coming in, and packet loss is the china firewall.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    My experience in China is that bandwidth is quite good internally. Typically fast to local China servers. International can be quite slow and speed varies depending on location. HK servers with direct China peering or with a transit provider with good China peering tends to be quite good too. But those connections are expensive.

  • pbgbenpbgben Member, Provider
    edited August 2015
  • NexHostNexHost Member
    edited August 2015

    Globalfrag now has Transit with China Telecom

    http://bgp.he.net/AS46573

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    halczy said: I'm curious as where did you get the 6Tbits figure? If that's their added capacity in 2017, then it looks like it's not gonna solve the congestion issue. I guess to make matter even worse, CT is rolling out 1Gbps home internet in most tier 1 cities next year.

    60 DWDM wavelenghts at 100GE each = 6Tbit capacity per cable fiber pair. In reality its somewhere between 60 and 64 depending on cable quality and amplifier generation.

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    halczy said: Any example? CT and CU's network is pretty solid within China itself. Although, there are a bunch of second tier ISPs like Greatwall Broadband that resell CT/CU's bandwidth and they are usually oversubscribed. Is that the congestion you are talking about?

    CT/CU inside China is a monster in itself and they are likely the No1 and No2 ISPs by national traffic worldwide - Traffic levels are easily somewhere around 100Tbit/s national (again with a figure of 1Mbit per user and 100m customers/users) at any given time.... needs a lot of backhaul between metro areas and to the large local DCs (Tencent and alike). Local BW within China (now mainly sold as "BGP blend" with all 3 carriers, CU/CT/CM) is pretty cheap, depending on region/city a few cent/Mbit, even cheaper than EU peeringn (AMSIX, DECIX, LINX) BW.

  • RDXRDX Member

    @dediserve said:
    We have peering with China Mobile and most regional providers in our Hong Kong cloud, and are adding an optional peered network with China Telecom / unicom at the moment that will be a small premium charge per VM...

    As has been said, the only option in the region is 'suck it up' and pay the crazy price per Mbps

    I am now very looking forward to see your pricing and your peering's performance :)

  • dediservedediserve Member, Provider

    @RDX said:

    We're working on it as fast as possible :)

  • @RDX said:

    Almost no one use China Mobile network so peering with CM is useless.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider
    edited August 2015

    Greyhound said: Almost no one use China Mobile network so peering with CM is useless.

    Better something than nothing, and that's a good start anyway.

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  • Greyhound said: Almost no one use China Mobile network so peering with CM is useless.

    I guess no one has a phone right :). Mobile traffic surpasses fixed broadband traffic quite easily (minus things like torrents and all).

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  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    concerto49 said: I guess no one has a phone right :)

    Not from CM - CT/CU both provide own mobile plans.

  • dediservedediserve Member, Provider

    Cm don't charge crazy premiums to peer, hence they are on the standard network in HK (and Singapore). We're installing new switch gear at the moment so we'l

  • dediservedediserve Member, Provider

    (for some reason cloudflare is blocking the rest of that reply)

    We will be offering both options in the coming week.

  • XIAOSpider97XIAOSpider97 Member, Provider

    @concerto49 said:
    I guess no one has a phone right :). Mobile traffic surpasses fixed broadband traffic quite easily (minus things like torrents and all).

    lol CM, "4G SIM Cards with 3G Phones and 2G Network."

    Pump Cloud has been sold on Sep 1 2018.

  • XIAOSpider97XIAOSpider97 Member, Provider

    Look at Quadranet, thought directly peered with CT, CT's speed is still not fast.

    That's mainly because of heavy overselling on home BBs (especially in East China)

    In my area (Shijiazhuang, Hebei), CT, 720 CNY per yr for a 10Mbps port, pay biennially to get 50Mbps, if u pay triennially u can get 100Mbps for 2,160 CNY per 3 yrs!

    So u can imagine how serious the overselling of CT is!

    Also, for most BGP DCs, int'l traffic always goes CT. So CT will guarantee their int'l speed.

    SL is okay, but recently too many net-speeders in SL HK...

    Pump Cloud has been sold on Sep 1 2018.

  • PhotonVPSPhotonVPS Member, Provider

    @XIAOSpider97 said:
    Look at Quadranet, thought directly peered with CT, CT's speed is still not fast.

    That's mainly because of heavy overselling on home BBs (especially in East China)

    In my area (Shijiazhuang, Hebei), CT, 720 CNY per yr for a 10Mbps port, pay biennially to get 50Mbps, if u pay triennially u can get 100Mbps for 2,160 CNY per 3 yrs!

    So u can imagine how serious the overselling of CT is!

    Also, for most BGP DCs, int'l traffic always goes CT. So CT will guarantee their int'l speed.

    SL is okay, but recently too many net-speeders in SL HK...

    How's it like over CN2?

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  • XIAOSpider97XIAOSpider97 Member, Provider

    @PhotonVPS said:
    How's it like over CN2?

    CN2 - good performence, really nice, but very expensive. Mainly for Enterprise users.

    CN2 Dedis in Xiamen, FJ is available, also expensive.

    If you can peer with CN2, then CT users will get very high speed, but the cost......

    Pump Cloud has been sold on Sep 1 2018.

  • @XIAOSpider97 said:
    In my area (Shijiazhuang, Hebei), CT, 720 CNY per yr for a 10Mbps port, pay biennially to get 50Mbps, if u pay triennially u can get 100Mbps for 2,160 CNY per 3 yrs!

    So u can imagine how serious the overselling of CT is!

    What?? 2,160 CNY for 3 years at 100Mbps? No wonder CT East is so much more congested than CT South. I'm paying 1,980 CNY per year for 100Mbps, it used to be 2,500 CNY per year under their old pricing plan.

  • XIAOSpider97XIAOSpider97 Member, Provider

    @halczy said:
    What?? 2,160 CNY for 3 years at 100Mbps? No wonder CT East is so much more congested than CT South. I'm paying 1,980 CNY per year for 100Mbps, it used to be 2,500 CNY per year under their old pricing plan.

    720/yr for 10Mbps and 2,160/3yr for 100Mbps, u can understand lol

    BTW Hebei is not so "east", more "north"...

    I regret not choosing CU (CM home BB doesn't exist in SJZ), though CU charges 1,800 CNY per 2 yrs for "only" 20Mbps.

    Pump Cloud has been sold on Sep 1 2018.

  • Hi, Bros
    Anybody can give me an invitation code for hostloc? thx a lot

  • XIAOSpider97 said: thought directly peered with CT, CT's speed is still not fast.

    Any peering in LA doesn't help - CT or CU or anything else. There's congestion on every port from time to time. It's more marketing / advertising than real gains (but that's with a lot of things in this world).

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