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MiniVPS price increase
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MiniVPS price increase

SpiritSpirit Disabled
edited November 2012 in General

Just got:

 Well, we have been working hard to find a way of reducing the impact these increased costs will have on miniVPS. We have looked at all possible options to ensure we have minimum disruption to customers on our EU servers and as little cost impact as possible. Unfortunately, no matter how we play with the figures, we can't come up with any solution that makes our EU location viable at our current pricing levels. With this in mind, we have come up with a few ideas to ensure our customers remain happy and we can all ride this wave.
 
What are the costs?
 
OVH will be charging us £1 per IP address per month for every IP address in every block we have with them. With over 1000 IP addresses in use (not counting additional IP's assigned), you can see this will have a large impact on our current EU costs.
 
So, what are your ideas?
 
We've come up with a few ideas to resolve this:
 
- 1) Every EU plan has a price increase of £1 per month. This is us passing on the cost to the customer with no monetary gain.
- 2) We give customers the option of dropping their IPv4 address and using only IPv6. This means no change in your current pricing.
- 3) We move your VPS to our UK location. You would be moved on to one of our UK plans that best meets your current EU plan however your pricing would change to that of the new UK plan.
 
We have tried to come up with the best answers to a difficult problem and feel the above options are best suited to the majority of our customers. While we fully understand that no-one likes a price increase, I'm sure you can all appreciate this is out-with our control and not a position we would chose to be in, or place our customers in.
 
OVH will be introducing these new charges on 6th December, 2012. At this point, we will be required to pay for all IP address in use. With this in mind, we will be introducing the new prices for all EU based VPS's this month for renewals and new orders on the 15th November. Customers on annual billing cycles will receive a pro-rata invoice for any IPv4 addresses in use.
 
If you have any questions, comments or concerns about this, please do get in touch and let us know. We have created a new HelpDesk department specifically for this issue called 'EU IPv4 Issues'. You can submit a ticket here: https://www.minivps.co.uk/submitticket.php. You can use this HelpDesk to request a change to your current plan to the options above.
 
Additionally, if you'd like to get in touch with me directly, you can email me on [email protected]
 
I'd like to take this opportunity to reassure all of our customers that while these changes are difficult, we are still a strong business with no intention of going anywhere! I would like to personally thank you all for your understanding and continued custom and support during this stormy weather.
 
Kind Regards,
 
Martin Diver
Managing Director
Xavvo Ltd / miniVPS

My main questions raised are:

1. We move your VPS to our UK location. You would be moved on to one of our UK plans that best meets your current EU plan however your pricing would change to that of the new UK plan.

Isn't this something what you always wanted anyway? UK plans are more expensive and we can order them anytime however shouldn't proper solution sound "We move your VPS to our UK location. You would keep same plan with same pricing" instead upselling?"

2. Customers on annual billing cycles will receive a pro-rata invoice for any IPv4 addresses in use.

I know that price increase isn't easiest thing for anyone however shuldn't pre-paid customers keep same pricing atleast till the end of the billing term?

«13

Comments

  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    @Spirit said: I know that price increase isn't easiest thing for anyone however shuldn't pre-paid customers keep same pricing atleast till the end of the billing term?

    I don't think anyone is on contract here, yearly or not - so I do believe that while odd they can send yearly customers ipv4 invoices.

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider

    @Corey said: I don't think anyone is on contract here, yearly or not

    Huh?

  • SpiritSpirit Disabled
    edited November 2012

    @Corey there was a plan VPS 1 (most likely their most popular plan) able to order and pay only yearly. We're locked to this payment term.

  • I would think that by law they have to honor the contracts that they made with their customers who already paid yearly.

    MiniVPS should eat the cost of the IPs.

  • jarjar Provider

    @JoeMerit said: MiniVPS should eat the cost of the IPs.

    Ideally but man that could be rough. Feel for them in this position.

    MagicSpam blackmails providers into buying their software, and ServerHub is a professional spam organization.

  • @jarland said: Ideally but man that could be rough. Feel for them in this position.

    Doesn't matter if its rough or not, they sold these VPSs on a yearly basis, they made an agreement they have to live up to.

  • As much as I am not in favour of mid term price rises it would cost to for them not to IMO, if the £10/year in France was renewed recently and with the OVH rises coming next month it would cost them £1 to provide the service not taking into account the server costs etc

    I know, I'm Dale Maily.

  • SpiritSpirit Disabled
    edited November 2012

    @jarland said: Feel for them in this position.

    And now feel for PREPAID clients which are FORCED to pay increase price of their plans for around 100% and with their suggested solutions they can't do much about. Most of them will most likely just abandon yearly pre-paid vps (let it to expire earlier).

  • jarjar Provider

    @JoeMerit said: Doesn't matter if its rough or not, they sold these VPSs on a yearly basis, they made an agreement they have to live up to.

    Perhaps they could allow the clients the option to but not make it mandatory. If you like your provider enough and know that they run on low profit margins, you might be willing to help them out. If not, definitely shouldn't be forced.

    MagicSpam blackmails providers into buying their software, and ServerHub is a professional spam organization.

  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    @JoeMerit said: Doesn't matter if its rough or not, they sold these VPSs on a yearly basis, they made an agreement they have to live up to.

    In more than just this thread now you seem to NOT care about the provider one bit.

    @joepie91 said: @Corey said: I don't think anyone is on contract here, yearly or not

    Huh?

    Does paying yearly put you on some imaginary contract?

    @Spirit said: @Corey there was a plan VPS 1 (most likely their most popular plan) able to order and pay only yearly. We're locked to this payment term.

    How are you locked?

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • AsadAsad Member
    edited November 2012

    Maybe someone should bother to tag @MartinD so that he can respond?

  • SpiritSpirit Disabled
    edited November 2012

    @jarland problem is that people already prepaid yearly for VPSs.

    @Corey said: How are you locked?

    I paid for whole year. I can't cancel it to get money back. So in order to keep what I paid I need to pay again.

  • Customers on annual billing cycles will receive a pro-rata invoice for any IPv4 addresses in use.

    Citing their own ToS:

    miniVPS agrees to provide the services stated for the price agreed at any given time.

  • @JoeMerit said: Doesn't matter if its rough or not, they sold these VPSs on a yearly basis, they made an agreement they have to live up to.

    Not taking either side but I see the writing on this wall, eat the cost and deadpool, pass it on and lose a huge chunk of clients, it's a no-win that MiniVPS created by making a very poor choice of provider to resell.

    Hostigation High Resource Hosting - SolusVM KVM VPS / Proxmox OpenVZ VPS- Low Cost Comodo SSL Certificates
  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider
    edited November 2012

    @gsrdgrdghd said: Citing their own ToS:

    miniVPS agrees to provide the services stated for the price agreed at any given time.

    In that case they shouldn't be forcing ipv4 pmt on yearlys.

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • What about pro-rated refund instead forcing clients to pay what is already paid?

  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    @miTgiB said: Not taking either side but I see the writing on this wall, eat the cost and deadpool, pass it on and lose a huge chunk of clients, it's a no-win that MiniVPS created by making a very poor choice of provider to resell.

    Hard to get out once you're in though :) Mistakes happen and minivps is going to suffer either way.

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • @Spirit said: OVH will be charging us £1 per IP address

    @Spirit said: Every EU plan has a price increase of £1 per month.

    It's means their IP price so far was 0? OVH gave them free IP's and now they started charging?

  • jarjar Provider

    @miTgiB said: by making a very poor choice of provider to resell.

    I think my old signature was "Reselling kimsufi is not a business plan."

    MagicSpam blackmails providers into buying their software, and ServerHub is a professional spam organization.

  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    @vedran said: It's means their IP price so far was 0? OVH gave them free IP's and now they started charging?

    Lots of providers get screwed later with the promise of free ips at first :)

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • @vedran said: It's means their IP price so far was 0? OVH gave them free IP's and now they started charging?

    OVH used to charge one time registration fee for a RIPE assigned netblock, without monthly payments.

    -

  • @Corey said: Mistakes happen

    Seems the race to the bottom creates more of them, rather than focusing on service and reasonable pricing.

    Hostigation High Resource Hosting - SolusVM KVM VPS / Proxmox OpenVZ VPS- Low Cost Comodo SSL Certificates
  • @Spirit said: What about pro-rated refund instead forcing clients to pay what is already paid?

    I guess that is the case. If yearly customers do not agree to the IP free, they will have to provide a pro-rated refund to them.

  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    @miTgiB said: Seems the race to the bottom creates more of them, rather than focusing on service and reasonable pricing.

    Race to the bottom is created by customer demand... but a lot of these newer businesses do not realize they don't have to have the bottom price to get business.

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • @gsrdgrdghd said: I guess that is the case. If yearly customers do not agree to the IP free, they will have to provide a pro-rated refund to them.

    I think it would be much wiser for them if they just eat the cost and keep providing the service to those who already prepaid, until their prepaid period expires. Refunding payment which happened more than 2 months ago is not easy.

    -

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider

    @Corey said: Does paying yearly put you on some imaginary contract?

    I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I am aware, purchasing a service is entering into a contract.

  • @Spirit I can prepay my cable bill also, doesn't mean they can't raise my rates.

  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    @joepie91 said: I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I am aware, purchasing a service is entering into a contract.

    But if they reserve the right to increase the price at any given time they should be OK right?

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider

    @miTgiB said: Not taking either side but I see the writing on this wall, eat the cost and deadpool, pass it on and lose a huge chunk of clients, it's a no-win that MiniVPS created by making a very poor choice of provider to resell.

    +1. It looks like the options are reduce clients by 50% or reduce clients by 100%.

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • jarjar Provider
    edited November 2012

    @24khost said: I can prepay my cable bill also, doesn't mean they can't raise my rates.

    Because cable companies have no morals. My cable company makes up monthly costs and total billed amounts. Literally the price is different every time you call, and they'll bill you for $200 and then get pissed that you didn't pay $220. Can't afford a lawyer because I have the cable, can't drop the cable because then I pay outrageous 4G overages, then still can't hire a lawyer...

    /offtopic

    MagicSpam blackmails providers into buying their software, and ServerHub is a professional spam organization.

  • Tough call for @martind. Unanticipated recurring costs from the DC. Personal view: honor the annual deals (no price increase), offer UK deals at discount for X months.

    "Go cheap on rarely used things"

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider

    @Corey said: But if they reserve the right to increase the price at any given time they should be OK right?

    The validity of such a contract clause depends on the jurisdiction - and as far as I am aware, no such clause existed in their terms of service in the first place. See also:

    @gsrdgrdghd said: miniVPS agrees to provide the services stated for the price agreed at any given time.

  • SpiritSpirit Disabled
    edited November 2012

    @24khost said: @Spirit I can prepay my cable bill also, doesn't mean they can't raise my rates.

    I don't pay cable bill upfront so I can't comment that. Beside that there's not issue about raising rates, issue is that people paid xx $ for 12 months and now they have to pay again for those months or their service will be terminated disregarding they paid it already.

  • 24khost24khost Member
    edited November 2012

    People who want everything cheap. I had a client today who wanted me to match urpads 1 a month price. Had it been $2.00 a month I would have thought about it. But when I consider my cost of ip's I can't even come close to allowing that.

    I feel for mini-vps

  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    @joepie91 said: @Corey said: But if they reserve the right to increase the price at any given time they should be OK right?

    The validity of such a contract clause depends on the jurisdiction - and as far as I am aware, no such clause existed in their terms of service in the first place. See also:

    @gsrdgrdghd said: miniVPS agrees to provide the services stated for the price agreed at any given time.

    I agree with @gsrdgrdghd 's paste they should have to provide the yearlys with the same cost.

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • CoreyCorey Member, Provider

    @24khost said: People who want everything cheap. I had a client today who wanted me to match urpads 1 a month price. Had it been $2.00 a month I would have thought about it. But when I consider my cost of ip's I can't even come close to allowing that.

    This is the lowend market.

    BitAccel - OpenVZ VPS / IRC,VPN,Anything Legal & Unrivaled Support!
  • @24khost said: People who want everything cheap.

    Huh? People want this what they paid for.

  • @spirit curious - what price increase does this mean for you? What do you have with them? (if you're able to share)

    "Go cheap on rarely used things"

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider
    edited November 2012

    @Spirit said: People want this what they paid for.

    So if your option is to pay extra for the same resources or not have a VPS at all because they deadpooled which is the better option for the client?

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • jarjar Provider

    @KuJoe said: So if your option is to pay extra for the same resources or not have a VPS at all because they deadpooled which is the better option for the client?

    If that is what is on the line short term, may be deadpool either way.

    MagicSpam blackmails providers into buying their software, and ServerHub is a professional spam organization.

  • I'll address everyone's comments at a later stage - as you can imagine we're a little busy at the moment sorting through tickets, emails and plans to mitigate any problems for clients.

    So far, for the most part, customers have been very supportive and helpful as have we in our replies to them in an effort to help them out of a bad situation and ourselves. I think only 1 customer hasn't been satisfied so far which is a good thing out of over 100 tickets.

    Spirit. I know you are quite vocal on this forum and like to make sure your piece has been said however, at the moment, I don't think I've seen any communication from you regarding this. I am personally checking over every single email and ticket coming in regarding this. Instead of shouting about how terrible we are would it not have made more sense to get in touch to clarify the position and see if we can waive certain fees/prices?

    I'll hold my hands up and admit that going with OVH in the first place has turned out to be a pretty stupid move and we're paying the price of that now (no pun intended) however instead of belittling us during this particularly difficult time, why not lament on the good service and products you've received from us since you signed up and realise that we have absolutely ZERO desire to penalise our customers because in the end, the only ones to suffer from cock-ups are us.

    Thanks.

  • I had three of their £10/year boxes, they're set to expire in early January so I personally can't complain - They've been nice and stable for roughly 11 months.

    I do appreciate their openness regarding the situation, I'd rather have this than have them suddenly go offline.

    Need to reach me quickly? Ping me on Discord

  • SpiritSpirit Disabled
    edited November 2012

    @craigb sure. I have two yearlies. And while around 100% additional payment wouldn't kill me it's just stupid that they force me to pay it to use it BEFORE next billing period without refund posability. With monthly payment I wouldn't complain - I can simply cancel it and not pay next month

    @KuJoe said: So if your option is to pay extra

    Extra? You mean double (100%)..

  • taking ethics into account , wouldn't it be fair to honor all yearly paid deals ? If you promise something and market it likewise for sales , i don't think its a good practice to break your clients trust whatever be the reason.

  • @MartinD imho. (and I don't speak only for myself) if you can't honour plan even till the end of billing period isn't logical solution to offer pro-rated payment?

  • @Zen said: So they can't handle an extra euro per client? That means they're making next to nothing and I'de run for the hills either way.

    Spot on !

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider

    @Spirit said: Extra? You mean double (100%)..

    So you're paying £1/month now? Now this thread saddens me. :(

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • NekkiNekki Moderator

    @Zen That means taking a £2 loss per year per client on the plan, that's not sustainable.

    Here lies Nekki. He loved massive amounts of storage, K-Pop and calling people cunts.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider
    edited November 2012

    @Zen said: So they can't handle an extra euro per client? That means they're making next to nothing and I'de run for the hills either way.

    Contrary to popular belief, not all companies are fueled by greed. Some companies actual design their plans so the client gets the best pricing, not so their wallets get fatter.

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • SpiritSpirit Disabled
    edited November 2012

    @KuJoe said: So you're paying £1/month now? Now this thread saddens me. :(

    @KuJoe - No, no.. it's like that. You (your own company) have $14.99/year plans, correct? I order this plan from you and 4 months later you want additional 10$ from me without posability to go away with pro-rated refund in case I don't want to pay another 10$ for this what I already paid. So what now? I have two choices. Paying additional money or I get terminated after those 4 months without refund for non used 8 months.

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