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Is France a "No DMCA (Offshore?) Hosting Provider"?
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Is France a "No DMCA (Offshore?) Hosting Provider"?

ZeastZeast Member

I have a VPS on France Datacenter.
I'm thinking to sell "No DMCA Hosting" , but I don't know if I can.

Help?

yyyyyy

Comments

  • blackblack Member

    It's probably not. DMCA is an American law, but now days people refer to it for general copyright laws which many countries have.

  • ZeastZeast Member

    So , i can host warez files? or customers install nulled software?

    yyyyyy

  • blackblack Member

    No. France has strict copyright laws.

  • ZeastZeast Member
    edited July 2015

    And romania? Example http://www.hostsolutions.ro/ (Romania) or http://www.hosteasy.eu (Moldova)?

    yyyyyy

  • Zeast said: And romania? Example http://www.hostsolutions.ro/ (Romania) or http://www.hosteasy.eu (Moldova)?

    all those listed have copyright laws.

    I AM BACK :)
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  • ZeastZeast Member

    Yeah , but hostsolutions call themselves No DMCA / Offshore Provider

    yyyyyy

  • deadbeefdeadbeef Member
    edited July 2015

    @Zeast said:
    Yeah , but hostsolutions call themselves No DMCA / Offshore Provider

    Have laws, and enforce laws are 2 completely different things.

    You want to get into union A, B and C where money rains from the sky and they tell you "oh, btw, you have to pass these laws". You pass the laws and never care again.

    Thanked by 1chrisp
  • @Zeast said:
    Yeah , but hostsolutions call themselves No DMCA / Offshore Provider

    DMCA is american thing, does not apply in Romania, but Romania (and most other countries) probably has their own copyright laws.

    I'm here to collect your heart

  • @DalComp said:
    DMCA is american thing, does not apply in Romania, but Romania (and most other countries) probably has their own copyright laws.

    Read my post about copyright laws in Romania.

  • ZeastZeast Member

    Really , I'm finding a provider that doesn't have this.
    "Copyrighted content/mp3/movies/cracked software or links to such content" (Time4VPS)

    "NOTICE: IF YOUR ACCOUNT IS FOUND TO CONTAIN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, ILLEGAL MP3 FILES, PIRATED SOFTWARE, HACKER PROGRAMS, WAREZ PROGRAMS, OR ANY OTHER ILLEGAL FILES, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT NOTICE, AND A $50.00 CANCELLATION FEE WILL APPLY. ADDITIONALLY, HostMada WILL NOTIFY THE PROPER AUTHORITIES OF YOUR ACTIONS. " HostMada

    By example , I have a US VPS. If a customer install IPBoard Nulled / Upload the IPB - vB - XenF Nulled / Upload music for his friends , my VPS will immediately suspended.

    yyyyyy

  • TarZZ92TarZZ92 Member
    edited July 2015

    Zeast said: Yeah , but hostsolutions call themselves No DMCA / Offshore Provider

    They are correct, DMCA does not apply outside of america however they have local copyright laws and ofcourse WTO

    Zeast said: By example , I have a US VPS. If a customer install IPBoard Nulled / Upload the IPB - vB - XenF Nulled / Upload music for his friends , my VPS will immediately suspended.

    "immediately suspended" this is very unlikely to happen as this host will need to do an investigation

    I AM BACK :)
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  • ZeastZeast Member
    edited July 2015

    What about BlazingFast.io? He host http://www.scriptzbase.org/ , all the files are hosted in it.

    What happen with this?

    EDIT: And http://www.szenebox.org/

    yyyyyy

  • @Zeast said:
    Really , I'm finding a provider that doesn't have this.
    "Copyrighted content/mp3/movies/cracked software or links to such content" (Time4VPS)

    "NOTICE: IF YOUR ACCOUNT IS FOUND TO CONTAIN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, ILLEGAL MP3 FILES, PIRATED SOFTWARE, HACKER PROGRAMS, WAREZ PROGRAMS, OR ANY OTHER ILLEGAL FILES, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT NOTICE, AND A $50.00 CANCELLATION FEE WILL APPLY. ADDITIONALLY, HostMada WILL NOTIFY THE PROPER AUTHORITIES OF YOUR ACTIONS. " HostMada

    By example , I have a US VPS. If a customer install IPBoard Nulled / Upload the IPB - vB - XenF Nulled / Upload music for his friends , my VPS will immediately suspended.

    I would avoid any host like that.

    Charging a fee for spam, maybe, since it can get IPs blacklisted and cause the host trouble, but a $50 fee for having some MP3s on your server? that's a joke.

    And I can understand reporting someone to the authorities for hosting CP or something like that, but not for pirated stuff.

    Favourite host in general: Ramnode (affiliate link)
    Favourite host for hourly billing/custom ISOs: Vultr ($50 free credit for new accounts, affiliate link)

  • @deadbeef said:

    I know, but gov can anytime decide to strictly enforce the laws. There's no real provider encouraging hosting copyrighted content, those "no dmca" thing are just wordplays.

    I'm here to collect your heart

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Provider
    edited July 2015

    I know this may sound like a strange question, but have you considered finding customers who aren't trying to screw people over instead of finding ways to allow your clients do unethical things? I don't know what your business plan looks like (assuming you operate a legitimate business) so this really is an honest question.

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, OR, TX, and AZ
    Need backup space? Check out BackupDragon
  • DalComp said: Romania (and most other countries) probably has their own copyright laws.

    Yes, Romania does forbid copyright infringement, and the law is enforced, but there must be a complaint, the government does not force providers to relinquish customer data in order to search through it for reasons to lock people up, force them to resign, force them to testify against the government perceived enemies, "cooperate" to lock them up in other ways, such as passing laws and sentences in support of various cults and corporations or if they dont like their political views.
    If you want to host illegal stuff, you must go underground, the plain internet hosting for such things are not worth it, you cannot make so much profit to keep it up if you are not a major hub such as TPB.

    Thanked by 1DalComp

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • ZeastZeast Member
    edited July 2015

    I want to sell a Simple Offshore Hosting , not a "bulletproof" or "illegal" service .

    Who think something about BlazingFast?

    Pavel Onopriychuk / Chief Operating Officer

    Hello,

    we respect your privacy and we'll always fight for your anonymity and protection within our facility. You can host without any problems, any content (no phishing, childporn etc. or anything else that can result in spamhaus listing)

    yyyyyy

  • Zeast said: I want to sell a Simple Offshore Hosting , not a "bulletproof" or "illegal" service .

    If you host illegal stuff, you need a bulletproof host which hosts these illegal things.

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • ZeastZeast Member
    edited July 2015

    @Maounique said:
    If you host illegal stuff, you need a bulletproof host which hosts these illegal things.

    Oh god...

    @Zeast said:
    I want to sell a Simple Offshore Hosting , NOT a "bulletproof" or "illegal" service .

    Thanked by 1Claverhouse

    yyyyyy

  • Zeast said: So , i can host warez files? or customers install nulled software?

    Zeast said: I want to sell a Simple Offshore Hosting , not a "bulletproof" or "illegal" service .

    Not my fault you are contradicting yourself, what is correct, you are looking to host warez and nulled software, or not? If you want to host those, then you need a bulletproof service, if you do not, anyone would do, including US, you wont have to worry about DMCA if you do not host copyright infringing sites.

    Thanked by 1KuJoe

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • FlamesRunnerFlamesRunner Member
    edited July 2015

    CyberBunker is your new home then ;)

    (not that I recommend and/or condone the use of this host)

    wget https://s.flamz.pw/dl/bench.sh && bash bench.sh

    curl https://s.flamz.pw/analytics/bench/stats.php

  • MuZoMuZo Member

    Copyright laws and agreements between countries aren't easy, if you're serious about this and want to be safe you should probably ask a lawyer.

    Anyway from what I understand as a non-lawyer: most countries (if not any) have their own copyright laws and agreements between other countries. DMCA is a copyright law in the USA (only) and as such it doesn't apply on other countries ("X" law in country A has no legal base to be applied in country B, except if there are agreements between them)

    Many providers outside the USA if they get a DMCA complaint they will ask you to remove the content because they have a ToS (and enforce it strictly) where they don't allow copyrighted material to be hosted in their network. A DMCA complain proves them you're infringing their ToS even thought the DMCA thing itself shouldn't cause them legal problems.

    Other providers will ignore DMCA complaints because it doesn't have any legal base in their country, but if they get a local copyright abuse they will ask you to remove that content.

    Then there are the so called "bulletproof" providers, providers that (tries) to ignore any law. They usually don't last forever and you might have very bad neighbors.

    If we go deeper in country copyright relationships, the USA doesn't have any copyright agreement with any of the following countries: Afghanistan, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Iran, Iraq, San Marino and Turkmenistan (data from the circ38a). Theoretically hosting in any of these countries should make you able to host any content protected by USA copyright legally. (In Iran Windows copies are sold legally in the streets; exclude San Marino as it's basically Italy). However it might be illegal for you to do business with some of these countries (embargoes).

    Also if you are hosting a content that has copyright based in another country, that country might have different copyright relationships with those listed countries thus making it illegal to do so.

    At the end I think you should just look for a host that don't take DMCA in consideration but of course if they get a local complaint you will have to remove that content.

    Thanked by 1Maounique
  • KytroKytro Member
    edited July 2015

    Well let me tell your a story.
    You may know those websites that let you watch TV Shows and Movies, etc. 4 Years ago a project like that was created in my own country, in the start they used Leaseweb to host their website. If I remember correctly, 2 years later they moved their servers to Romania but no one knew that and some people tried to take them down, but nothing worked since they weren't hosted in my country, so the 'investigation' took about 2 more years, and finally Cloudflare told those people where the server was located and the owners of the project (making about 100€ per day) decided to close the project.

    In my opinion if your problem is just the "nulled" stuff, I think you can go with Romanian hosting services, or even better, Panama. YES, they have their own laws, but for what I understand companies that say "DCMA Ignored", they will ignore it for sure, but they won't ignore their country laws, so they will only shutdown your services if they get a court warning or something similar.

    Thanked by 1deadbeef
  • ChuckChuck Member

    @Zeast said:
    Really , I'm finding a provider that doesn't have this.
    "Copyrighted content/mp3/movies/cracked software or links to such content" (Time4VPS)

    "NOTICE: IF YOUR ACCOUNT IS FOUND TO CONTAIN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, ILLEGAL MP3 FILES, PIRATED SOFTWARE, HACKER PROGRAMS, WAREZ PROGRAMS, OR ANY OTHER ILLEGAL FILES, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT NOTICE, AND A $50.00 CANCELLATION FEE WILL APPLY. ADDITIONALLY, HostMada WILL NOTIFY THE PROPER AUTHORITIES OF YOUR ACTIONS. " HostMada

    By example , I have a US VPS. If a customer install IPBoard Nulled / Upload the IPB - vB - XenF Nulled / Upload music for his friends , my VPS will immediately suspended.

    Does this mean the provider goes look into customer's VPS without contacting customer?

    I like what she said, not what it means.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    Everyone country has laws against copyright! There is no way around it. The only places you might be able to get away with it will have either extremely expensive services or extremely poor.

    The best you can hope for is to host your servers somewhere where people are going to be too lazy or ignorant to follow up with the local laws.

    DMCA is strictly a USA law. We for example do not recognize it in Hong Kong but HK does have it's own laws against copyright. If you hosted in Hong Kong, many hosts may ignore a DMCA notice. However they won't ignore an HK law.

    There are other things to consider too. In the USA, it is basically illegal even to link or reference copyright material if that is the sole purpose of the website (i.e. warez forums or BitTorrent Trackers). However in places like Hong Kong, this is not so clear and it may not be illegal at all. Hosting the actual content is definitely illegal, while hosting a link is almost certainly not. This is one reason why DMCA is ignored since some parts of DMCA law is not relevant or applicable.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    Another thing you can consider is that most hosts have a certain level of protection from the actions of their clients.

    In most countries, if a host knowingly serves a client doing illegal things, they may be liable (at least partially). As a host is not generally a legal expert, you may not be aware that a client's actions are illegal.

    In the case of receiving a complaint, it would be perfectly reasonable to request the complainant to provide the information as to which law is being violated. Typically complainants are too lazy to check or only refer to US laws.

  • randvegeta said: Everyone country has laws against copyright

    not 100% true. in iran you can freely pirate most software. the govt even hosted a warez server once.

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  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    And the servers there are almost certainly high priced if they are good (fast) or just crap if cheap! Anywhere you actually WANT to host your site will have copyright laws.

    Also, now that US/Iran trade relations are moving forward, we might see Iran's adopt some copyright laws :-)

  • MaouniqueMaounique Member
    edited July 2015

    randvegeta said: Everyone country has laws against copyright!

    You mean for copyright and against piracy.

    Yes, there are, in almost all countries, but it depends on many factors how are your chances of being singled out and punished for breaching those.
    Small punter downloading a movie or series, it is more probable to get struck by a thunder and die.
    Hosting a warez linking site, well, you will probably be shown the door sooner or later by your host, being sued and all, highly unlikely.
    Big business like printing CDs on an industrial scale, selling fake "OEM" Autodesk and Microsoft products, well, you asked for it...

    I think the industry learned to live with it, there is a scare game which may work for some, I do not care, personally, but i do buy the games I like, even if second hand, on ebay or opened demos, whatever, or vinyls from the 80s, first generation CDs, etc. I also have licensed windows, more licenses than I use, actually, but, at times, I do it in a gray way, like windows client hosted as a VM which I carry around, for example and have copies of, theoretically able to run on multiple computers or multiple copies, which is not very kosher, I think, not to mention I help people encrypt full devices and use external boot managers, which, in theory, can be called aiding and abating the IP theft, since it cannot be determined if the OS and the apps are legally licensed or if there is anything installed, for that matter.
    If someone is after me or after anyone, for that matter, they can find some law to "nail" you, at the very least bother to plant some drugs or explosives if not some files on a server you supposedly owned or even on your own computers. This is why that provision in the law, "beyond any reason of a doubt" is so important in conjunction with "presumed innocent until proven guilty", but who bothers nowadays, so much democracy around and so little time and money to finish it off...

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  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider
    edited July 2015

    TarZZ92 said: not 100% true. in iran you can freely pirate most software. the govt even hosted a warez server once.

    The "gov" still does, Afranet is full of warez FTPs, speed outside Iran is horrible and content is mainly shitty Iranian music (kinda ironic, because this would actually be protected by their copyright, but no one cares) and software of questionable origin (would not trust that trojan/virus wise).

    randvegeta said: Everyone country has laws against copyright! There is no way around it

    Iran, Vietnam and Antigua & Barbuda have no copyright laws.

    Thanked by 1Claverhouse
  • Ole_JuulOle_Juul Member
    edited July 2015

    I don't think that the laws are the most important consideration here. If you get sued, it will likely cost you lots of money, even if you win. You do not want to go to court - and that can happen regardless of what the law says.

    The relevant aspect here, is how likely you are to get a complaint (or takedown request, or law suit). If this involves music/movie rights organizations then the likelihood is fairly high if your attain any profile - and the country is not very relevant here. Even sites in Romania got hit with big legal troubles a few days ago.

    Perhaps the most important legal aspect is not what jurisdiction the servers are located in, but rather where you are located or registered. If you are a company, perhaps you should register in Seychelles. IIRC a suit brought against a Seychelles registered company would require a lawyer to be registered there in order to be valid. That's a high bar, and one of your best protections.

  • 4n0nx4n0nx Member

    Ole_Juul said: If you get sued, it will likely cost you lots of money, even if you win.

    That's what you get legal expenses insurance and liability insurance for

    (((o(゚▽゚)o))) If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. (((o(゚▽゚)o)))

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  • RE: DMCA

    The DMCA actually offers you some protection. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want it, or something similar. It's section 512 with the "notice and takedown" which offers an easier way than just getting sued directly. IOW, you get a notice and if you take down the offending material, you're good. In Canada we have a much more fair system. It's called "notice and notice". That way you don't get the unfairness of someone censuring the content even though they're wrong, and perhaps know that they are. That's called DMCA abuse.

  • Ole_Juul said: The DMCA actually offers you some protection. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want it, or something similar. It's section 512 with the "notice and takedown" which offers an easier way than just getting sued directly

    because it's US LAW, it's quite simple really.

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  • DMCA being a US law doesn't always make a difference...

    "A judge ruled on Friday that a 23-year-old student can be extradited to the United States for running a website posting links to pirated TV shows and films, despite significant doubts over whether such sites break any UK laws."

    theguardian.com/law/2012/jan/13/piracy-student-loses-us-extradition

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    alaningus said: "A judge ruled on Friday that a 23-year-old student can be extradited to the United States for running a website posting links to pirated TV shows and films, despite significant doubts over whether such sites break any UK laws."

    That only works in a few countries however, he just had bad luck to be in UK - Austria, Germany and most eastern european countries do never, under any circumstance, extradite their own citizens (in Germany that is even in the constitution).

  • alaningus said: DMCA being a US law doesn't always make a difference...

    "A judge ruled on Friday that a 23-year-old student can be extradited to the United States for running a website posting links to pirated TV shows and films, despite significant doubts over whether such sites break any UK laws."

    theguardian.com/law/2012/jan/13/piracy-student-loses-us-extradition

    I followed that story and was certainly on Richard's side regarding the extradition. However, that was a situation where the material was not taken down, and O'Dwyer continued doing what was under consideration. From that article:

    "revenue of £15,000 per month. When US customs agents seized the site in 2010 it was replaced immediately with a slightly different domain name"

    That's pretty high profile. Is this what the OP plans to do?

  • " It did not directly host any files, which meant, according to the student's lawyers, that it acted as little more than a Google-type search engine and did not breach copyright."

    This is what fucks me off

  • alaningus said: DMCA being a US law doesn't always make a difference...

    it does. Richard was clearly ignoring requests (even valid UK based ones from what i know) i do not respect US laws. and why should i. I dare you ask a bunch of republicans from the US if they would respect UK laws in America.

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  • alaningusalaningus Member
    edited July 2015

    @TarZZ92 said:

    "significant doubts over whether such sites break any UK laws."

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    TarZZ92 said: Richard was clearly ignoring requests (even valid UK based ones from what i know)

    He can ignore DMCA all day long, and probably acted on EUCD else there WOULD be a CLEAR violation of UK/EU laws and he WOULD be prosecuted in UK already (as others before).

    The site itself is, as even lawyers and MPs noted, probably either legal or just a minor offence in UKs law books.

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  • @DalComp said:
    I know, but gov can anytime decide to strictly enforce the laws.

    True, but if you're not high profile, what are the chances?

  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited July 2015

    @Zeast said:
    Really , I'm finding a provider that doesn't have this.
    "Copyrighted content/mp3/movies/cracked software or links to such content" (Time4VPS)

    "NOTICE: IF YOUR ACCOUNT IS FOUND TO CONTAIN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, ILLEGAL MP3 FILES, PIRATED SOFTWARE, HACKER PROGRAMS, WAREZ PROGRAMS, OR ANY OTHER ILLEGAL FILES, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT NOTICE, AND A $50.00 CANCELLATION FEE WILL APPLY. ADDITIONALLY, HostMada WILL NOTIFY THE PROPER AUTHORITIES OF YOUR ACTIONS. " HostMada

    By example , I have a US VPS. If a customer install IPBoard Nulled / Upload the IPB - vB - XenF Nulled / Upload music for his friends , my VPS will immediately suspended.

    I recognize that TOS anywhere... Any knowledgeable personperson would know that this TOS was made using Webmaster's Cavern :p

  • fitvpnfitvpn Member

    Need add pool. Will be interesting.

    Yes, I can boogie

  • K4Y5K4Y5 Member

    @CriticalNASA said:
    I'm interesting in DMCA ignoring. My favorite hoster for how - bpw.sc

    @CriticalNASA said:
    Personally, I prefer NL. But I take VDS in Russia for few months and support from https://bpw.sc advice me NL for adult site. Since convinced that NL really better.

    https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/77534/paid-shilling

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