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Iniz - Closed account because user filed PayPal dispute
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Here is what I just found. This is the cancellaton email I got. They basically state that no refunds if customer forgets to cancel the recurring payment. This is not cool. This is not what a good VPS provider does.
So now you're telling us that they explicitly reminded you to do it as well. Thanks for sharing that
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This is why you will always stay as small business. You will keep failing if you don't view the business from customers' perspective. What a customer see from that screenshot is simply misconduct.
Thanks! I really hope so.
@protos78 maybe it's time to move away from Paypal.
Did you lose a lot of money?
//EDIT: 8GBP? Heh..
@protos78
I see it as you broke the agreement that you had when you filed the dispute before talking it out. Who's fault is it for not reading what you agreed to?
You should always deal with transactions with the originating company before you launch a bank onto the situation.
If you would of just canceled the subscription (with proof) and showed them the backlog of payments that were still paid by mistake for that specific service after it was canceled in a nice manner, none of this would of happened.
Since you still had a service with said company, the agreement still applied since the money can still be applied to an account balance.
I think the odds of you winning this PayPal dispute is slim since this is over a digital good/service.
Reading from the PayPal Terms (Found Here)
Section 3.8 - Part B: To stop a Preapproved Payment by notifying PayPal, you must access the My Preapproved Payments section of your Account Profile and follow the links to stop the payment. You may also stop a Preapproved Payment by calling PayPal at (402) 935-2050. Once you contact PayPal to stop a Preapproved Payment, all future Preapproved Payments under your agreement with the merchant will be stopped. If you stop a Preapproved Payment you may still be liable to the Merchant for the payment or other penalties under the terms of your agreement with the Merchant and you may be required to pay the Merchant through alternative means.
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No, I didn't. It is just $10-15. I even don't care about the data in the VPS as I just used it as proxy server. I had no data there. Actually, what pisses me is their attitude. Closing an account should be last resort on their part. But this is the first thing they did. I believe paypal will decide on my favor. If not, I will take it to credit card company.
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Read it one more time. Tell me how I broke the agreement.
Your credit card company won't do anything about it since you authorized the charges from your PayPal account, and since it was authorized at the time through them, makes it OK for your credit card as well.
I honestly hope you don't get refunded and it will teach you lesson about pulling this shit because it seems like you're the only one here with the problem.
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If the service is not provided, they can't charge. I have already cancelled the service almost 75 days ago.
Reading from Iniz's agreement. Found Here
You were not entitled to a refund since it was beyond the initial seven days of purchase of the VPS. The keyword is (AFTER SEVEN DAYS), period. You did a chargeback which tells them you broke the agreement and wanted a force refund.
The company that charged you was PayPal since it was YOUR fault you didn't cancel YOUR subscription to the company.
Wait so Iniz didn't get the monies?
It sounds like there is a bug in the PayPal protocol if only the account holder can cancel the recurring payment. With other payment services like, say Visa, isn't it usually the merchant pulling the payment who sets it up and also cancels it?
Dude, this is for initial service setup. If somebody doesn't like their service, they basically state that they can get refund. It doesn't apply to this case. I didn't apply for chargeback; I just filed dispute as service is already cancelled. Paypal did some weirdo stuff. I didn't ask paypal to punish them, as they might be willing to resolve the issue. All I asked is the refund to resolve the issue. Instead of closing the account, they could have just sent me an email to close the dispute.
You should stop the recurring payment; otherwise, we will keep getting the money is not just right. it is not acceptable. It is not the way honest company do business. Period.
The subscription is setup and maintained by the PayPal client only. It has nothing to do with the service itself. It's like using online bill pay with your bank provider. The merchant has no control over how the money is received automatically in that fashion.
I think more of a misunderstanding of what PayPal is doing. It's kind of like some banks offer a bill pay service. What they will do is cut a check to whoever you tell them to every month, for the amount that you state. This is what a PayPal subscription is. The company isn't agreeing to draft that amount each month, rather you are agreeing to actively send them that much each month.
I've never set up automatic billing in my life (I always just pay what I owe), but you're probably right about the PayPal setup. However, with the bank I think the actual charge is set up as a "pull" so just stops when the merchant goes away.
Filing a dispute in PayPal speak is like filing a chargeback in credit card speak. That's why this is taken so seriously. The whole key point to this was YOU make the ticket and raise awareness to the company so they have a chance to resolve the issue themselves BEFORE you force an investigation to happen. You didn't do that so you brought all of this onto yourself.
First off, never, EVER use recurring billing through paypal or keep your credit/debit card on any file on any website (Maybe Amazon). You do know you could of removed automatic payments in your paypal settings. Hell, you even agreed to that when you made your first payment with them, you knew. (Paypal tells you through the ordering process)
Your mistake for 1) having a recurring payment method setup that you were unaware of, and b) forgetting about it and the host automatically charges you for it.
ROFL? So you didn't notice they took the money out of your paypal for 2 months? Last time I checked, I never seen a host offer a 2 month payment period unless it's a custom package.
Do you think provider's waste their time to check each VPS/hosting account and email every customer after a payment is made by an AUTOMATED billing system? In a perfect world.
Bottom line, repent and show them this thread and admit you fucked up and they might forgive you and let you back if you promise to NOT fuck them over with a paypal dispuit like that. That's how provider's lose money and it's disrespectful.
Provider's don't deserve to lose money when it's 100% a customer's fault. Mistakes do happen and provider's will refund you to keep you on good grounds with them (Well, the ethical ones).
In the PayPal situation the client creates/modified/stops the subscription. They are the ones responsible for managing it, not the merchant. All the merchant sees is that they got an unexpected income that can't be tied to anything.
The way I just described it was the "push" direction on "sending" money vs. a real bank account charge that wants to pull money from the bank account.
It's amazing that this discussion has remained civil for so long. LET must have changed recently.
That's because I haven't posted yet. You just jinxed it.
Then the only refund you should get is the initial payment, anything after that is still your problem
Again, PayPal subscriptions are managed by the end clients (meaning you @protos78), it's your responsibility to cancel the subscription and to then see about getting the refund in a peaceful manner. However you don't seem to understand that.
@protos78 I hope you don't come to my company or any other low end providers because they will do the same thing, the only difference is that they actually put this in their agreements.
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I have no idea why you are taking this so seriously. But let me give you a business lesson that will make your company way bigger. You should not expose your customers to risk. When people are exposed to risk, they don't buy from you. If I buy something from amazon, and decide that it is not worth it, they will refund. If your company is paid an extra amount by a mistake on your customer, you are expected to refund it. You should not try to get customer's money for the product/service you don't provide. Even your customer doesn't realize that they have signed up for recurring payment, and they noticed it later, you should refund it. Otherwise, it will be misconduct.
If a customer tells me that they are overcharged, I won't close their account and terminate all the services. I'll look into issue and get it resolved quickly. If you don't treat the customers the way it is fair, they won't do business with you. If people thinks that you keep their money even if they cancel the service, you will expose them to risk and they won't buy from you. Any smart marketer knows what to do in this situation. Arguing with customer on this simple issue is not a smart move. You are basically shooting yourself in the foot. I just want to keep you informed.
When using a PayPal subscription your agreement for recurring payments is with PayPal not Iniz.
On the order form for Iniz (I would know I'm a customer) and many other hosts you have the option of using PayPal Checkout (one time payment) or PayPal Subscription, these are bright yellow buttons and the Subscription one clearly says Subscription.
What you've done here is entirely your fault, any recurring payments are handled through PayPal (that's where your agreement is) not Iniz, Iniz's payment gateway will receive all IPN requests and do it by itself as its automatic, also most all of their system is automatic..
Dispute requests are probably handled automatically via WHMCS to suspend the users account as a whole.
Yes but Iniz received the money so they should give it back -_-
I haven't gone there to see, but that kind of clarity is bang on.
As for the way PayPal works, well, they're way too big to budge. We all use them because they work for us in some way. I'm with you @protos78 in regard to basic business principles, but you can't blame Iniz for any PayPal shortcomings. We all need to live with those regardless of what we think of their business practice.
@protos78
You just agreed with what I just said however you didn't notify/tell them FIRST, you disputed the transactions which are equivalents to chargebacks.
Again, PayPal subscript are setup explicitly by the client. The merchant has zip/0/nada control over what the client does with their PayPal account.
Also, your example of a one time purchase using PayPal or a credit card does not work in this scenerio since we're talking about subscriptions or "recurring monthly charges" whether it's pushed or pulled.
If you think a company is going to audit every single transaction as it happens (real time) then you got to be joking. It's up to the client to solve the problem since it's there money spent, not the companies.
My whole point here was the correct procedure to handle this vs. your way that clearly backfired.
And on that note I'm going to bed.
P.S. You're questioning why I'm taking this seriously, you're the one that brought the attention to all of us thinking were going to side with you.