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    Iniz - Closed account because user filed PayPal dispute
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    Iniz - Closed account because user filed PayPal dispute

    protos78protos78 Member
    edited June 2015 in General

    Iniz used to be a pretty good provider. In the past few years, I had some services with them. However, they recently closed my account and I want to keep lowendbox users updated about their recent practices.

    First, I had two VPSs with iniz. One(VPS1) was paid annually. The other one(VPS2) was paid monthly. I closed VPS2 in April, 2015 online. I generally check my paypal account every 1-2 months. Yesterday, I realized that I was charged monthly hosting bill for May, and June for VPS2 by Zeniva Limited. This seems to be the company handling billing for iniz. They could even be the same company. This was for a VPS that I closed more than two months ago. I realized that I have recurring bill for VPS2 and I got charged hosting bill for the VPS I closed around mid April, 2015. I opened a dispute with paypal and told them the story. I asked them to refund me for 2 months bill as I already closed the vps2.

    Today, I got an email from Iniz stating that my account is closed due to recent paypal chargebacks. All services are terminated including VPS1 which was paid annually.

    To be honest, I find this very annoying and unethical. First, I could have forgotten to cancel recurring payment on paypal as a customer. Any honest VPS provider will let me know my recurring payment issue. If you keep getting a check for a service you don't provide, you are expected to let the person know the issue. This is what an honest provider will do. Worse, they are closing my account because I asked to get my money back for the services that are not provided. To make the matters worse, they even terminated VPS1 which has nothing to do with the issue. They even closed my account, I can't send them a support request. This is not the way to do business.

    I know INIZ used to be a good provider. However, I am really disappointed with their recent response. In case, people at INIZ may want to look at the issue, please check paypal transactions 0SY12963J1263241X and 8J740149BD284052J. It is not a good practice to keep charging customers for closed VPS accounts. It is even worse to close their accounts once customer realizes that they are being charged for services that were closed. Hope they will fix the issue.

    Thanks,

    «13

    Comments

    • The issue is that you ran to Paypal and started a dispute before attempting to work it out with their billing department, mistakes happen, especially with automated systems. I doubt they even knew you were still getting charged for a VPS you no longer had.

    • We're they charging you, or did you setup a scheduled payment that you didn't cancel when you canceled the VPS?

      This is 100% your fault. The second you chargeback your account is done. That'll happen with just about any host.

    • I am not arguing that it is not my fault that I forgot to cancel recurring payment. I should have cancelled the recurring payment. Once I realized that it is still charging my account, I cancelled it and opened a dispute for the charges. Whenever I have an issue with any type of provider and I made the payment through paypal, I open a dispute and get the issue sorted out in few days.

      I clearly explained the issue in dispute. I have no idea why they closed the account.

    • hostnoobhostnoob Member
      edited June 2015

      That's your own fault for filing a Paypal dispute before attempting to resolve it with them. Like umcookies said, it's all automatic they probably had no idea you were being charged.

      @protos78 said:
      Whenever I have an issue with any type of provider and I made the payment through paypal, I open a dispute and get the issue sorted out in few days.

      Well, consider this a lesson learned. Always speak to the service provider first

      Favourite host in general: Ramnode (affiliate link)
      Favourite host for hourly billing/custom ISOs: Vultr ($50 free credit for new accounts, affiliate link)

    • UmcookiesUmcookies Member
      edited June 2015

      If your first step is performing a charge back when this has happened in the past I'm utterly amazed you haven't run into this issue earlier.
      Again first point of contact should be their billing department.

      Charge backs are usually for the cases where the provider is refusing it give your money back. A last resort of sorts.

    • wychwych Member

      FYI

      SECTION 14 - REFUNDS

      >

      You may receive a refund if you request cancellation within the initial 7 days after sign up of your first service with us (refunds do not apply to VPS packages beginning with IO). If the account holder cancels after the time period specified, there will be no refund given.

      https://iniz.com/terms.html

      Thanked by 1rajprakash

      Taking a hiatus.

    • @wych would that still apply when payments are being made on a service that is no longer active? That just seems like a money back guarantee to test their service.

    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      Umcookies said: If your first step is performing a charge back when this has happened in the past I'm utterly amazed you haven't run into this issue earlier.
      Quote

      I had the issues resolved with other internet merchants. I never had a similar issue with VPS providers.

      @wych,
      This is not like getting VPS, using it, and cancelling the service within a week and asking for refund.
      I already closed the VPS. I am not asking for a refund for the time I used the service. This is for the recurring payments I made even after I cancelled the service.

    • wychwych Member
      edited June 2015

      @Umcookies said:
      wych would that still apply when payments are being made on a service that is no longer active? That just seems like a money back guarantee to test their service.

      As its likely a recurring payment that was not cancelled in the users account (user not iniz error) that a dispute is uncalled for, he should have just raised a ticket.

      Many hosts will auto suspend/close the whole account on dispute.

      @protos78 said:
      @wych, This is not like getting VPS, using it, and cancelling the service within a week and asking for refund. I already closed the VPS. I am not asking for a refund for the time I used the service. This is for the recurring payments I made even after I cancelled the service.

      I am fully aware of what you are referring to but a dispute takes time to deal with and also is marked on their PayPal record. Asking for a refund via a ticket is just far more courteous, especially since its your own error.

      Thanked by 1ATHK

      Taking a hiatus.

    • First, I had two VPSs with iniz. One(VPS1) was paid annually. The other one(VPS2) was paid monthly. I closed VPS2 in April, 2015 online. I generally check my paypal account every 1-2 months. Yesterday, I realized that I was charged monthly hosting bill for May, and June for VPS2 by Zeniva Limited. This seems to be the company handling billing for iniz. They could even be the same company. This was for a VPS that I closed more than two months ago. I realized that I have recurring bill for VPS2 and I got charged hosting bill for the VPS I closed around mid April, 2015. I opened a dispute with paypal and told them the story. I asked them to refund me for 2 months bill as I already closed the vps2.

      You should've cancelled the recurring payment for VPS1 as soon as you cancelled it, this was your responsibility . But if you forgot to do it & they billed you for it then you should've tried to work it out with their billing department before heading to dispute the payment with PayPal.

      Today, I got an email from Iniz stating that my account is closed due to recent paypal chargebacks. All services are terminated including VPS1 which was paid annually.

      This is pretty much happens everywhere in the hosting industry that they close your account if you open a dispute or do chargeback instead of trying to resolve the issue with billing department of that company

      To be honest, I find this very annoying and unethical. First, I could have forgotten to cancel recurring payment on paypal as a customer. Any honest VPS provider will let me know my recurring payment issue. If you keep getting a check for a service you don't provide, you are expected to let the person know the issue. This is what an honest provider will do. Worse, they are closing my account because I asked to get my money back for the services that are not provided. To make the matters worse, they even terminated VPS1 which has nothing to do with the issue. They even closed my account, I can't send them a support request. This is not the way to do business.

      Yes mistakes do happen & I can understand that you might have forgotten to cancel the recurring payment but the way you adopted to get your money back was wrong. Now you should contact Iniz & tell them it was your mistake to open a dispute instead of contacting them & ask if they will still restore your account & get to a acceptable solution regarding the payment for that cancelled vps. So just do it & outcome might be favorable for you.

    • @Shoaib_A said:

      As I said before, I should have cancelled the recurring payment. However, this doesn't make it fair for them to keep the money. I should have received an email from them stating that I cancelled the service;however, paypal is still charging for recurring payments. If I didn't realize the recurring payments, they might even keep charging for months. They can't get away with the attitude "it is your fault, you should have cancelled the recurring payment issue". **They should have systems in place to inform their customer for recurring payments. **

      If this issue occurs again with another provider, I won't hesitate to contact paypal. This is what paypal is for. They are the ones that will listen both parties and make a decision.

      If I get a check from you, I won't cash it. I have to know what this check is for. Similarly, if a VPS provider gets a recurring payment, they have to check for the service provided. This is not the right attitude.

      Instead of sending me an email, they closed the account. I think they don't have the right o close vps1 which has nothing to do with the issue. They don't have the right to close a service which was paid for a year. The fact that they have automated systems doesn't make it right. If they don't restore vps1 in few days, I will dispute another charge. If paypal doesn't make a decision on my favor, I will open a dispute through credit card company. They can't get away with it.

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: Today, I got an email from Iniz stating that my account is closed due to recent paypal chargebacks

      I would do this at MXroute, and then report it on FraudRecord (as noted in my policy). My business should not take a negative hit from PayPal because of your bad memory. PayPal has had a nasty habit of freezing accounts in the past, no one wants to be the next small business reviewing PayPal online for that. By filing a dispute, in my mind, you are attempting to hurt my business. You are claiming fraud, and that I am responsible. You think it's a refund request, it isn't. It's reporting the recipient.

      Cancel the recurring payment, open a ticket with your provider and politely request either a refund or account credit for those payments.

      protos78 said: If I get a check from you, I won't cash it. I have to know what this check is for. Similarly, if a VPS provider gets a recurring payment, they have to check for the service provided. This is not the right attitude.

      No. You won't get the prices here if they have to hire a full time accountant to review all PayPal transactions and cross reference with accounts, doing daily audits. They rely on you to notify them of this.

      protos78 said: If this issue occurs again with another provider, I won't hesitate to contact paypal

      You're going to have a really bad time signing up for providers. You're demanding a change in what is normal in this industry or the threat of damaging their reputation with their payment processor. That will not go over well for you.

      protos78 said: They should have systems in place to inform their customer for recurring payments

      Then develop a module for it for WHMCS and sell it, the rest of us will buy it if it's reasonable.

    • elgselgs Member

      You should talk to the provider before raising the dispute at PayPal. What you did effectively made your provider's PayPal account less trusted.

      Thanked by 1classy
    • Shoaib_AShoaib_A Member
      edited June 2015

      @protos78 said:
      If this issue occurs again with another provider, I won't hesitate to contact paypal. This is what paypal is for. They are the ones that will listen both parties and make a decision.

      Then things will end up for you in similar way as with your Iniz account. As @Jar explained no business likes to take hit from PayPal because of a mistake made by one of its customers. The proper way is to contact the hosting company asking for a refund or account credit. If they refuse & you want to take the issue to the payment processor, always backup your data before doing so.

    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      Jar said: I would do this at MXroute, and then report it on FraudRecord (as noted in my policy). My business should not take a negative hit from PayPal because of your bad memory. PayPal has had a nasty habit of freezing accounts in the past, no one wants to be the next small business reviewing PayPal online for that. By filing a dispute, in my mind, you are attempting to hurt my business. You are claiming fraud, and that I am responsible. You think it's a refund request, it isn't. It's reporting the recipient.

      >

      Your business is not getting a hit because of bad memory. Your business is getting hit because you failed to let your customers know about recurring payment. It is your job to make sure that you are paid for the services you render. You can't pray on customers bad memory and keep them charging. You can't charge for services you didn't provide.

      Checking recurring payments and associating it with vps accounts is a simple SQL statement. I don't expect each transaction to be analyzed by accountant. However, this is a simple SQL query. If a provider puts systems to automatically close account in case of a paypal dispute, they should have systems to check for recurring payments. H**ere in USA, you can't charge for the services that you didn't provide. **Customer has the right to get his money back.

      I am not trying to hurt your business. I am just trying to get my money back. If you provide a good customer service, nobody will file a dispute. But if you keep customers money for the services that are not provided, customers have the right to file a dispute.

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: Your business is getting hit because you failed to let your customers know about recurring payment. It is your job to make sure that you are paid for the services you render

      Then develop a module for WHMCS. The industry standard billing software doesn't do this. So you're going to go around reporting providers until you have none left to use. That's your reality, and your choice. The providers will toss you out one at a time until one reports you on FraudRecord, then a large number of them will deny you on order, and then you'll just have your soapbox and no more budget providers to purchase from.

      protos78 said: I am not trying to hurt your business. I am just trying to get my money back.

      Then you need to start a conversation with the person who has the money, not report them as fraud to their payment processor.

    • I agree that talking to the provider before raising a dispute with PayPal is an absolute must. I would say though, that the PayPal recurring payment thing can be a bit difficult to navigate. It's very existence may not be announced to the account holder and if they don't know to look for it, could get a surprise. I recently bought something for a dollar and when I went to PayPal and started ferreting out the details, it turns out to be a recurring payment. It was not a big deal and I didn't bother complaining anywhere, but it was the first time that the word "recurring" had come up regarding this purchase.

    • Jar said: Then develop a module for WHMCS. The industry standard billing software doesn't do this. So you're going to go around reporting providers until you have none left to use. That's your reality, and your choice. The providers will toss you out one at a time until one reports you on FraudRecord, then a large number of them will deny you on order, and then you'll just have your soapbox and no more budget providers to purchase from.

      >

      WHMCS is not my problem. I don't ask providers to use any kind of software. If your billing software is not doing simple staff, then you might do something about it.

      The other thing is this: they could just send me an email and ask me to cancel the dispute and told me that they will refund the money. Instead, they chose to close the account. This is not professional.

      Worse, they closed VPS that has nothing to do with the issue. Remember, I had two VPSs. One was paid in full for a year. The other one has monthly bills. Here in USA, if I paid annually for a service, they don't have the right to cancel it. If you paid your electricity bill for a year, electricity company can't close the service 3 months later.

    • wychwych Member

      protos78 said: Your business is not getting a hit because of bad memory. Your business is getting hit because you failed to let your customers know about recurring payment. It is your job to make sure that you are paid for the services you render. You can't pray on customers bad memory and keep them charging. You can't charge for services you didn't provide.

      Tell that to PayPal; they did after all design their own payment system that you chose to use.

      Taking a hiatus.

    • rds100rds100 Member
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: You can't charge for services you didn't provide.

      Nobody is charging you for services you didn't get. It's YOU who send the money to the recipient. I.e. you instruct paypal to send the money to iniz every month. The paypal subscribtion is an agreement between you and paypal.

      And opening a dispute before talking with the provider is just wrong, very very wrong. I don't know how many people have to tell this to you before you accept it and realize that you did something wrong and stupid.

      -

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: The other thing is this: they could just send me an email and ask me to cancel the dispute and told me that they will refund the money. Instead, they chose to close the account. This is not professional.

      It was unprofessional of you to call your bad memory fraud on behalf of the provider. That's exactly what you did.

      protos78 said: WHMCS is not my problem

      Well apparently you've made it your problem because it is going to be the reason why you will have no hosts in this market segment to use in the future. Your stand has a roadblock in the way and it is WHMCS. Budget providers rely on heavy automation to provide you with service at a reasonable cost, and most do not develop their own billing automation. So you've chosen to pick a fight with WHMCS, but you think you're just picking a fight with the provider. For that reason, your opinions will be irrelevant, you are not someone that hosts in this market segment will want to do business with.

      I assure you, no host here is going to hire an accountant and pay a developer to earn your <$7/m invoice when so many people here are perfectly capable of opening a ticket about it, or simply cancelling their subscription when they need to.

    • Mahfuz_SS_EHLMahfuz_SS_EHL Member, Provider
      edited June 2015

      From My view:

      1. Why is it too necessary to make PayPal Subscription all the time ?? Don't you get 5 mins of time to Pay an invoice each month ?? Why are you people lazy ??

      2. Mistakes happen, if you were auto charged, there are chances that you can open a Support Ticket & ask for Refund. If the Provider knows manner, they would of course refund you after doing some calculations. No Doubt here !

      3. If you don't have time to bear this delay & you love your Money so much, then why you always make Subscriptions ?? PayPal subscription is always for persons having Healthy Heart not like yours one, Heart Attack type Categorized People.

      4. And Finally, Dispute are beyond necessity. Disputes, in definition, should be opened when you can't solve the Problem with Provider. Never discussing with them about what happened and all of a sudden opening a Dispute makes no sense. Not Only INIZ should have closed your Account but also they should have called the Police & Filed a Case for this !

      5. Never Open a Discussion on LET knowing that you will be blown away by the comments of the members at LET !

      AlphaSSL Revocation Issue is being investigated.

    • elgselgs Member

      Everybody makes mistake. You really should not punish those who were unintentionally and were willing to refund you.

    • wych said: Tell that to PayPal; they did after all design their own payment system that you chose to use.

      >

      This is what I will do.

      rds100 said: Nobody is charging you for services you didn't get. It's YOU who send the money to the recipient. I.e. you instruct paypal to send the money to iniz every month. The paypal subscribtion is an agreement between you and paypal.

      It is INIZ's job to let me know about the recurring payment. They can't just let the money coming in for the services not provided. If I didn't realize it, I might get charged for months.

      And opening a dispute before talking with the provider is just wrong, very very wrong. I don't know how many people have to tell this to you before you accept it and realize that you did something wrong and stupid.

      As a customer, I don't care about the relation between paypal and provider. If paypal is doing something bad to their account, all the hosting providers should tell the paypal what it is doing wrong. As a customer, it is not my job to protect the provider. Provider could just say "this customer forgot to cancel the recurring payment, here is a refund. That is it.".

    • Mahfuz_SS_EHLMahfuz_SS_EHL Member, Provider
      edited June 2015

      I would like to request @Patrick to Make a FraudRecord of this customer so that we can also be aware of him.

      Thanked by 2jar MCHPhil

      AlphaSSL Revocation Issue is being investigated.

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: It is INIZ's job to let me know about the recurring payment

      So how many staff do you think it takes to review all of these payments manually, and how do you intend to hire said staff at the prices they charge?

      So do you want:

      A. To never pay low prices again

      OR

      B. To accept some responsibility and take a moment to understand how these businesses operate

      There is an option "C" and it's the one I previously described, the problem is resolved by no host doing business with you.

      Run a web host for one year and then come back to me and tell me that you hold this same stance, I'll give you $500.

    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      Mahfuz_SS_EHL said: Why is it too necessary to make PayPal Subscription all the time ?? Don't you get 5 mins of time to Pay an invoice each month ?? Why are you people lazy ??

      >

      To be honest, I even didn't know this was a recurring payment. I just realized it.

      elgs said: Everybody makes mistake. You really should not punish those who were unintentionally and were willing to refund you.

      >

      I am not trying to punish them. If I want to do it, I would have started the dispute through credit card company. I want to get the issue resolved. That is the reason I opened a dispute. For other internet merchants, I opened a dispute, get it resolved. I didn't know that paypal will do a harm to the provider. If I am told to cancel the dispute and ensured that I will get refunded rather than getting my account closed, I will definitely do it.

      Right now, they terminated the services which are fully paid. This is not right. They are not my enemy. I am not trying to do harm. But they already did harm to me.

    • Mahfuz_SS_EHLMahfuz_SS_EHL Member, Provider

      @protos78 said:
      As a customer, I don't care about the relation between paypal and provider. If paypal is doing something bad to their account, all the hosting providers should tell the paypal what it is doing wrong. As a customer, it is not my job to protect the provider. Provider could just say "this customer forgot to cancel the recurring payment, here is a refund. That is it.".

      As a Customer, it's also your responsibility to contact the Host, did you do that ?? Doesn't seem to be !

      AlphaSSL Revocation Issue is being investigated.

    • Mahfuz_SS_EHL said: As a Customer, it's also your responsibility to contact the Host, did you do that ?? Doesn't seem to be !

      >

      No, it is not my responsibility to contact them. If I am charged for the services that I didn't get, I will contact the credit card company. They will resolve the issue. If you don't want the issue to be resolved through paypal or credit card company, make sure that you don't charge for the services that you didn't provide.

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: If I am charged for the services that I didn't get

      You weren't charged for the services. You willingly gifted them money. There was no invoice, they took 0 action to claim this money. Their automation took 0 action to claim this money. Their PayPal account took 0 action to claim this money. You basically mailed them cash in an envelope. It is your PayPal account that initiates the sending of money that you agreed upon with PayPal (not with Iniz).

      Now, you like using illustrations, so here's one. You mail a $5 bill to Microsoft and see if you get it back. If you don't, you should seek legal action and report them to the BBB.

    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      Jar said: Now, you like using illustrations, so here's one. You mail a $5 bill to Microsoft and see if you get it back. If you don't, you should seek legal action.

      Correct illustration is this: I rented a software and agreed that I will pay monthly. I decided to cancel it. Even though I cancelled it, I got charged to my credit card. I called the credit card company, they will return the extra money paid. If microsoft did a similar thing, they will get tons of lawsuits.

      If the paypal is the party that are responsible for the problem, I have no idea why this will hurt the provider. They could just say "the customer forgot to cancel the recurring payment. " I see no problem with this.

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: Correct illustration is this

      Nope, not correct because this:

      protos78 said: I got charged to my credit card

      Equivalent would be you wrote a check to them and mailed it to them. Only, in this instance, you told a company to cut the check for you every month and never told them to stop. This isn't an opinion part, this is the literal event. You literally told PayPal to send them money, you did not ask Iniz to take the money. When someone charges your credit card, it is because you asked them to take the money. Very different, and you need to understand the difference.

      It is very important that you understand how your PayPal account operates.

    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      Jar said: Equivalent would be you wrote a check to them and mailed it to them. Only, in this instance, you told a company to cut the check for you every month and never told them to stop. This isn't an opinion part, this is the literal event. You literally told PayPal to send them money, you did not ask Iniz to take the money. When someone charges your credit card, it is because you asked them to take the money. Very different, and you need to understand the difference.

      >

      If the issue is like this, they could have just said: the customer forgot to cancel the recurring payment. Paypal will do no harm to them as it is not provider's problem. The dispute will resolve quickly. They will refund the money, everybody will be happy. There is no point in closing the account. It is unprofessional. I am not asking to do any harm to the provider. If they want to keep the money, I will do my best to harm them. Otherwise, I have no problem with them.

    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      This is what I got from paypal website:
      Subscriptions and Recurring Payments is a low-cost way for you to accept credit card and bank account payments for content site subscriptions, newsletter fees, club dues, or recurring donations, and can be fully integrated with your website in a few easy steps.

      This means that I agreed for a service in exchange for money. If I don't get the service, I am entitled to ask for money back. Period. **This has nothing to do with mailing checks to company. ** If recurring payments are offered, it means that provider agreed to provide the mentioned service whether it is subscription, newsletter fees or VPS. Pay attention to paypal's explanation "a low-cost way for you to ACCEPT credit card and bank account payments". It is not like somebody is mailing them cash. Providers accept it in exchange for somethingelse.

      If hosting service is not covered by recurring payments, providers should not offer it at all.

    • XiNiXXiNiX Member, Provider

      @elgs said:
      You should talk to the provider before raising the dispute at PayPal. What you did effectively made your provider's PayPal account less trusted.

      This Sums up Nicely.

      Thanked by 1elgs

      XiNiX™ InfoTech Pvt. Ltd. : Virtual & Dedicated Servers in US / EU & India
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    • belinikbelinik Member
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: This means that I agreed for a service in exchange for money. If I don't get the service, I am entitled to ask for money back. Period.

      well did you ask them for the money back?

      let's put it this way, winning a chargeback means it cost the provider 20 dollars. I think that is a good enough reason for the vps company to place their action...

      if you send them the 20 dollar they lost they may be able to get your account back....

    • zedzed Member

      Just never set up subscriptions with low end providers man, lesson learned.

      Even if you'd contacted the VPS provider, there's a fair chance they'd have used the same bullshit arguments you're seeing here (well you should have cancelled your subscription finders keepers we got your 3 bucks h0h0) and you'd still end up having to dispute it via paypal.

      It's just mindboggling that providers are worried about the paypal chargeback costing them 20 bucks, but there's no system in place to make sure it doesn't happen.

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      zed said: costing them 20 bucks

      $20 here, $20 there. You know what website this is right? If you want providers with large cash stores, you're shopping in the wrong place. Sure they should have some money lying around for an emergency, but not enough to hire someone to manually review all PayPal transactions or enough to be your personal bank.

    • 4n0nx4n0nx Member

      Jar said: I would do this at MXroute, and then report it on FraudRecord (as noted in my policy

      Great. Creating a fraudrecord entry for something that's not fraud. Just great.

      (((o(゚▽゚)o))) If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. (((o(゚▽゚)o)))

      ヽ(`Д´)ノ Everyone should run Tor on their idle servers.

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      @4n0nx said:
      Great. Creating a fraudrecord entry for something that's not fraud. Just great.

      Shouldn't be a problem. I've never denied a refund request. If you try to hurt me, I warn other providers.

      Thanked by 1Peroni
    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      belinik said: well did you ask them for the money back?

      >

      A good provider will not try to keep its customers money for the services it doesn't provide. My way of asking money back is through paypal dispute. If I were someone working for INIZ, I would immediately send an email to the customer and ask to cancel the dispute and agree to pay the money back. It is that much simple. Closing the account for a dispute is the worst thing that could be done on their part. I am not evil; if I am told nicely to cancel the dispute, I would have done it. If somebody takes my money for the services that are not provided, I will report it to the authorities. They will take care of the issue. No provider has the right to charge customer if the service is cancelled. I don't care how the recurring payment thing is working. The only thing I care is this: I should not pay for the services I cancelled. I am not sending them the money as some of the providers claimed here. I agreed to send them money as long as the service is provided. If I decide to cancel the agreement, I no longer have to pay. I have mobile phone bill on recurring payment. If I cancel the service, they can't charge. This is it. Same thing applies to hosting service. Once I cancel the service, they can't keep accepting money from me.

      I will gain nothing by opening a dispute or paypal charging $20 to the provider. I am willing to resolve the issue. I am the one that is charged. I am the one whose other vps is cancelled as I filed a dispute. Remember, I have two VPS. The other one closed with no reason. Put yourself in the shoes of paypal account representative that will decide on what to do. Here are the facts:

      1. Customer didn't get the service, but money is still in merchants account.
      2. Seller didn't agree to return the money even though service is not provided. There is no bill.
      3. Customer realized that there is a recurring payment, and immediately cancelled it.
      4. Seller terminated another VPS with no solid reason as buyer opened a dispute.

      I could even file another dispute request for the VPS that they terminated. That one was fully paid for a year. Right now, they are not proving a service for which it is fully paid.

      They could solve the issue quickly. It is their choice now. If I get my other VPS back, and money, I will cancel the dispute. Otherwise, I will open another dispute for the VPS they closed. In the meantime, I might even call the credit card company to cancel all transactions.

      Look at how corrupted some providers are !!! This is not for INIZ. They ask INIZ people to put me in fraudrecord. So far, I have paid hundred of VPS bills. Even now, I have more than 20 VPSs. I am going to be in fraudrecord because I asked my money back for the services that are not provided. I am speechless...

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    • lbftlbft Member
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: I am not trying to punish them. If I want to do it, I would have started the dispute through credit card company.

      What. A PayPal dispute is just as serious as a credit card chargeback.

      You directly threatened their ability to accept payment from their customers - too many issues and PayPal will tell the merchant to fuck off, and this is already a high-risk industry since so many people are out to defraud hosting companies. And good luck selling to maybe half your customers if you don't accept PayPal...

      By your own admission, you did that without even contacting them about it.

      What the fuck did you expect to happen?

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    • 4n0nx4n0nx Member

      Mahfuz_SS_EHL said: I would like to request @Patrick to Make a FraudRecord of this customer so that we can also be aware of him

      Where did he commit fraud? Maybe customers should be aware of everyone who uses fraudrecord.

      (((o(゚▽゚)o))) If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. (((o(゚▽゚)o)))

      ヽ(`Д´)ノ Everyone should run Tor on their idle servers.

    • belinikbelinik Member
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: A good provider will not try to keep its customers money for the services it doesn't provide. My way of asking money back is through paypal dispute.

      protos78 said: I will gain nothing by opening a dispute or paypal charging $20 to the provider. I am willing to resolve the issue. I am the one that is charged. I am the one whose other vps is cancelled as I filed a dispute.

      if you were willing to do it 'correctly' a ticket will solve all your problem, but no you went your way to paypal and even with majority of people telling you got it wrong you still try and twist it your way... Nature of internet forums. Given how much iniz has changed since sold I'd imagine them either miss this topic since nothing is on their ticket system, and you won't get your data back. They lose you as your customer, you may/may not win chargeback and waste more time on calling another place to do another charge back. You will most likely end up in fraudrecord due to your actions and question yourself why your future purchase is getting blocked/rejected.

    • jarjar Provider
      edited June 2015

      protos78 said: if I am told nicely to cancel the dispute, I would have done it.

      So, compromising here, now that you understand that opening a dispute can be damaging to the business and that it is not intended to be used for a simple refund request, would you next time take the same amount of time that took and instead contact the provider first?

      I mean, if you honestly didn't know it could hurt them, then alright you learned something new. If you stand by it, now knowing this, and knowing that there are certain considerations that you should keep in mind when dealing with hosts that rely heavily on automation to reduce their prices for you, then I would say this is not true:

      protos78 said: I am not evil

      If next time you would open that ticket or write that e-mail first, then no you are not evil.

      Thanked by 1belinik
    • elgselgs Member
      edited June 2015

      @protos78 said:
      I am not trying to punish them. If I want to do it, I would have started the dispute through credit card company. I want to get the issue resolved. That is the reason I opened a dispute. For other internet merchants, I opened a dispute, get it resolved. I didn't know that paypal will do a harm to the provider. If I am told to cancel the dispute and ensured that I will get refunded rather than getting my account closed, I will definitely do it.

      You indeed punished them by opening a dispute at PayPal. If you have a PayPal business account, you know there is a reputation for each merchant based on that PayPal decides how much they trust the merchants. PayPal will freeze the untrusted merchants' money for a long period of time. So I believe no merchant wants to have a bad reputation with PayPal.

    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      elgs said: You indeed punished them by opening a dispute at PayPal. If you have a PayPal business account, you know there is a reputation for each merchant based on that PayPal decides how much they trust the merchants. PayPal will freeze the untrusted merchants' money for a long period. So I believe no merchant wants to have a bad reputation with PayPal.

      >

      I didn't know this. If I knew, I would contact them first. Even now, I can close the dispute if they refund and keep the other vps open. Closing the account is the worst thing that could be done.

      Jar said: If next time you would open that ticket or write that e-mail first, then no you are not evil.

      >

      They should have returned the money before I filed dispute. You should not accept payments for the services not provided.

      Thanked by 14n0nx
    • mikhomikho Member, Provider

      @protos78 said:
      A good provider will not try to keep its customers money for the services it doesn't provide.

      Did you know that most providers add sent money that don't match an invoice as credit for future invoices?

      If Iniz do the same you could have used that money to pay parts of your annual bill when that was due.

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    • protos78protos78 Member
      edited June 2015

      lbft said: What the fuck did you expect to happen?

      >

      They will contact me to close the dispute and refund the money. Then, I will close the dispute. In the first place, they should have asked me to refund before I realized that they are still charging recurring payments.

      I am not trying to put them into bad position. After all, I have account with them for a while. They should send me an email before closing the account and terminating all services. I have an account with them for more than a year. This is not the way to treat a customer.

    • BruceBruce Member

      seems there's 2 issues here

      1) hosting companies persist with pushing subscriptions on customers
      2) customers think the hosting companies are charging them

      paypal is the culprit here, mostly. could be helped by WHMCS behaving better too. not the last time we see a thread like this.

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